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On August 25 2010 02:06 r33k wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 02:03 Juicyfruit wrote:On August 25 2010 01:33 Southlight wrote:
The idea is that Lichbane gives you a third nuke... or a fourth if you also activate R at a good time. But see, you wouldn't say sheen is particularly ideal on any other champ similar to sion. For instance, no one would build sheen first on, say, cho gath. I just don't see the point when he has two skills with a 1-1 (or in the shield's case, you could argue it's 1:2) ratio. Sion scales better with increased resist and more armor/res imo, than lichbane. I think as long as you have enough mana regen, you should skip sheen entirely. The best part about sheen is that it increases your mana pool while still giving you good AP and bonus damage, but it just slows down everything else so much that I hate it. You are building him as a one-trick pony, unless you have ignite you really have nothing after your burst. Try autoattacking with him, he does bring the hurt. Btw has anyone noticed in the Urgot spotlight that merc threads allowed him to just walk out of galio's ult? I haven't played vs a new galio yet but that seems like quite a nerf.
- Well yeah, that's what nukers are suppose to be like. I mean, you just nuke them again 4 seconds later anyways. The idea is to make people lose over 1/3 of their HP with each combo, so that they're on death row after eating 1 shield + stun, because you'll just shield + stun again, and then towerdive for a stun-kill with shield blocking tower shots.
I'm not against diversifying sion's options, but not before level 10, imo. His early game is just too ridiculous not to take full advantage of that window where you're freaking invincible. After he establishes map control, he can ease up more and farm hard while the rest of his team takes over.
- You can do that now, I've seen people walk out of galio's ult
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bleeeeeeeeeeh boring free heroes this week
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On August 25 2010 02:15 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 02:06 r33k wrote:On August 25 2010 02:03 Juicyfruit wrote:On August 25 2010 01:33 Southlight wrote:
The idea is that Lichbane gives you a third nuke... or a fourth if you also activate R at a good time. But see, you wouldn't say sheen is particularly ideal on any other champ similar to sion. For instance, no one would build sheen first on, say, cho gath. I just don't see the point when he has two skills with a 1-1 (or in the shield's case, you could argue it's 1:2) ratio. Sion scales better with increased resist and more armor/res imo, than lichbane. I think as long as you have enough mana regen, you should skip sheen entirely. The best part about sheen is that it increases your mana pool while still giving you good AP and bonus damage, but it just slows down everything else so much that I hate it. You are building him as a one-trick pony, unless you have ignite you really have nothing after your burst. Try autoattacking with him, he does bring the hurt. Btw has anyone noticed in the Urgot spotlight that merc threads allowed him to just walk out of galio's ult? I haven't played vs a new galio yet but that seems like quite a nerf. - Well yeah, that's what nukers are suppose to be like. I mean, you just nuke them again 4 seconds later anyways. The idea is to make people lose over 1/3 of their HP with each combo, so that they're on death row after eating 1 shield + stun, because you'll just shield + stun again, and then towerdive for a stun-kill with shield blocking tower shots. I'm not against diversifying sion's options, but not before level 10, imo. His early game is just too ridiculous not to take full advantage of that window where you're freaking invincible. After he establishes map control, he can ease up more and farm hard while the rest of his team takes over. - You can do that now, I've seen people walk out of galio's ult
From what I read in the patch notes though it seems that they increased the range that Galios ult does damage in so that it affects people outside of the red circle showing his taunt radius. It's not much but it's there. So I guess you can still walk out of the radius but unless you were barely at the edge of his taunt it seems you'll still take damage from it.
Edit: taken from release notes
Idol of Durand
* Taunt radius reduced to 500 from 520.
* Damage radius increased to 520 from 500.
* Adjusted team colored range circle to more accurately represent taunt range
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On August 25 2010 02:06 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 01:51 ghen wrote:On August 25 2010 01:04 spinesheath wrote:On August 25 2010 00:20 ghen wrote:On August 24 2010 23:56 jtbem wrote:
urgot 3150 ip only Yesssss omg I'm buying and maining this guy until they patch him. On August 24 2010 22:29 spinesheath wrote:On August 24 2010 21:25 ghen wrote:On August 24 2010 21:14 spinesheath wrote:On August 24 2010 20:09 Scipaeus121212 wrote:
Hey guys, I was playing Cho a lot lately, mainly at 1v2 lane, but after playing against Vlad/Ez laning combo (and after seeing urgot champion spotlight >_>) I wonder: is Cho actually viable 1v2 laner? Vlad/Ez completely pushed me away from the creeps, I barely got experience from most of them and ended bluepilling/dying very often because of heavy harassement. Or is he actually viable and I just need to play better? I love 1v2 as Cho. But some combos give me nightmares. Particularly if they involve Garen or Singed. Maybe that's my own fault. But I would assume that every char has a few combos that he can't properly 1v2 against. Against a garen singed lane just focus singed and don't get in range. Or if Garen refuses to use his passive, focus him instead. You'll have more than enough health if singed dives with R+Q and garen being garen. Both garen and singed automatically push creeps so it'll be sitting under the tower the whole lane phase. Singed OR Garen, never had to deal with both of them at once so far. I have trouble focusing a singed who runs around like mad while staying out of range of his flip. It's not like I can rupture him consistently if he isn't retarded, and my autoattack brings me into range unless I can Vorpal him by attacking a creep which doesn't happen too often. If Singed is with some burst char he trolls into my tower, flips me into range of his ally and I inevitably eat a ton of damage. Not saying that it is impossible to deal with such lanes, but I certainly don't like it. Nothing is impossible with cho :D <3 I treat vorpal as doing zero damage, I don't try to zone people with it at all. Now that I think about it, I use it like an always-on siphon strike: Added damage to last hit easier. I haven't had problems ruptures against singed. He's really easy to predict when he's poisoning because he won't run too far away from creeps. Its all about the skill shot really, if you can't hit it start practicing with Galio. Much easier SS to hit and a similar 1-2-3 punch late game like rupture/scream/feast. Staying out of singed flip range is a skill you'll need for any champ, not just cho. I've seen some scary singed do crazy stuff with flip. I am pretty sure that rupture is slow enough to dodge it unless something forces you to move in a certain direction. At least I personally am usually able to dodge ruptures just by reaction. Though I am often rupturing people who just walk into it for no reason, or stay right on top of it. Rupture is very slow and easily avoidable. Just like viegar's comet. It's more about putting it somewhere they want to be really bad. Like right behind them as you charge out of the bushes. It only takes a few ruptures to start predicting your opponent's movements when you force aggression or passivity. Then it comes down to reading their movements and placing ruptures where they have no choice but take the hit due to their playstyle and instinctive movements. I find it much easier to predict good players than bad ones. Bad players seem to be crazier and less predictable changing (tactics?) constantly. Good players have their character down to a science and know what works in what position. This leads them to be in similar positions more often. Most of the time it will come down to a simple decision between blocking their retreat or blocking their advance with your rupture. Exact placement stems from that, but the basic choice is what really matters. Rarely if I'm ok with mana (usually doesn't happen or I'm just being stupid which definitely happens XD) I'll rupture where they would stand to last hit just to deny. These ruptures are almost always avoided because they're so visible. Finally, learn the visual clues for rupture and how to hide it. Sending rupture from the bushes does wonders for hiding the giant foot stomp at the beginning, and hiding the rupture graphic underneath AOE spells or champions like Garen is also very useful. Siege creeps also mostly block the graphic. My last favorite is putting the rupture right on the edge of the brush from in front of the tower. It covers a huge area where champions congregate and can't be seen. If you're having trouble with your opponent being really good and dodging them all thinking about how to hide the clues in the lane might be useful. I am basically using all of this. However in a 1v2 situation I am rarely able to "charge out of the bushes", especially if it's against a Singed or any char who I generally want to stay away from. If I have an ally there, say a gank from our jungler, then it's much easier to force enemies to choose between a rupture and not getting away so easily. Iirc you can always hear the rupture well before it hits. So if you don't know where it will hit and you are not putting yourself in danger with it: Run into an open area where the rupture is clearly not. This is pretty much always the case in a 1v2 situation when the Cho is close to his tower and there is no threat of a gank from the river.
There are lanes that will zone you out of a 1v2 situation as Chogath, I won't lie. Kassadin/Soraka, Taric/Garen, etc. But in these cases you just stop harassing altogether and rupture becomes your farming tool while you wait on your jungler to gank at level 4.
Oh yeah! That's the reason you were 1v2 in the first place!
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On August 25 2010 02:15 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 02:06 r33k wrote:On August 25 2010 02:03 Juicyfruit wrote:On August 25 2010 01:33 Southlight wrote:
The idea is that Lichbane gives you a third nuke... or a fourth if you also activate R at a good time. But see, you wouldn't say sheen is particularly ideal on any other champ similar to sion. For instance, no one would build sheen first on, say, cho gath. I just don't see the point when he has two skills with a 1-1 (or in the shield's case, you could argue it's 1:2) ratio. Sion scales better with increased resist and more armor/res imo, than lichbane. I think as long as you have enough mana regen, you should skip sheen entirely. The best part about sheen is that it increases your mana pool while still giving you good AP and bonus damage, but it just slows down everything else so much that I hate it. You are building him as a one-trick pony, unless you have ignite you really have nothing after your burst. Try autoattacking with him, he does bring the hurt. Btw has anyone noticed in the Urgot spotlight that merc threads allowed him to just walk out of galio's ult? I haven't played vs a new galio yet but that seems like quite a nerf. - Well yeah, that's what nukers are suppose to be like. I mean, you just nuke them again 4 seconds later anyways. The idea is to make people lose over 1/3 of their HP with each combo, so that they're on death row after eating 1 shield + stun, because you'll just shield + stun again, and then towerdive for a stun-kill with shield blocking tower shots. - You can do that now, I've seen people walk out of galio's ult
What I'm saying (that i forgot to reiterate in my massive post but have said before) is that without a shield you're about as resilient as teemo. And you do your damage in melee. In a tankish dps metagame.
A situation where you will find your playstyle being countered is when your shield will be popped by harassment as you are running into the fray (or if you have flash like many nuke sions do you are even more of a one-trick pony) and you will lose your nuke, often without your team realizing it and charging in anyways.
Another situation is you charge in, pop shield+Q, ryze or morgana snares you and you don't have the slightest way of escaping. Actually ryze may be one of the worst opponents if this is your strategy, since his bounce/ult+snare will be raping you.
I'm curious regarding what summoner skills you are using, I would personally feel the need for ignite since the shield's CD can't be brought to anything lower than 6 secs or so, without improved ignite since I don't see any other way than 9/0/21 of running AP sion. Since you never mentioned mana problems but you open with ring I would feel clarity to be unnecessary, perhaps you rely on your teammates to bring one. Are you considering clarity, especially with the new change? Or are you relying on blue buff, thus taking it away from your morganas/kayles/etc?
Also I agree with you on Sion being a godlike laner before lv 6 (lv 10? you manage to hurt people with your shield that late by getting as many ranks as i do without even recalling for a blasting wand?), I always feel guilty if I don't get 2 kills before lv 6 when laning with someone like akali or a carry.
What I do while laning tho is forcing my opponents to think that I'm a melee character, even if I'm harassing them with shield from range, if you punch stuff they'll often feel like you are worthless from range and since you definitely aren't you will pack a couple surprises with the extra attacks while they're stunned. Unless you're laning with a ranged char, but I feel like Sion is a fantastic babysitter for melee carries or close-range squishies.
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I don't really have a fancy defense for sheen on Sion, but the gist of it is that between your nukes and ult, you can get 2-3 procs of it in a typical "Sion is here and you are dead" fight. AP Sion is all about the 3-4 second burst and Sheen is a really cost effective way to jack that up + it builds into lichbane later which really lets you explode people. Essentially, the way AP sion plays only lets him get 2-3 auto-attacks in anyway, and Sheen is the best way to jack up the damage on those 2-3 attacks.
Now, that being said, I think AP Sion just isn't the way you should build him. At least not in the metagame. AP Sion is a monster insta-gibber, but you basically don't have any good ways to spec for real survivability through AP investments and if you're fighting a bunch of tanks, you need sustained damage output, not this petty burst crap. I'll let other good players say I'm a tard for this, but I think Sion should typically be Sheen -> mercs -> Survivability Item -> Zeal -> Survivability Item -> Triforce -> Tank Spam + maybe LW/Atma's. Doing this lets you have his strong early game (playing much the way straight AP Sion would play it) and then fluidly transition into a reasonably strong late game. This is assuming they have something in the way of squishies though. No squishies, go straight tanking + LW/Atma's, fuck the sheen opening and triforce late game. As far as abilities are concerned I've never seen the point in leveling his stun past 1 unless you're all in on AP, so I'd do stun -> enrage -> shield -> shield -> shield -> ult and then prioritize like this: ult > Shield > Enrage > Stun.
Sorta an aside: I still can't figure out why everyone likes to dump on Triforce. Yes, the item's all over the place, but if you want everything it's giving, it's very efficient at it. No one argues that Sheen, Phage or Zeal is terrible (well, I guess some argue about Sheen, but they're wrong, item's still fine), and then for 300 more you get:
2 AD
5 AP
5% Attack Speed
2% Crit Chance
4% Movespeed
50 Mana
75 Health
Phage Proc Slow increased from 30% to 35%
Sheen Proc Damage increased from 80% to 130%, also if the tooltips are correct, Triforces proc does not have the 3 second CD that Sheen's has.
zzzzz, w/e... on a character like Sion, I still think it's a really balanced 1-stop-shop for all your offensive needs, both burst and sustained. Then again I think Malady's fine on TF so don't mind me, herpdederp.
EDIT: and oh yea, I waltz on out of Galio's Explosion radius with Merc Treads like it's my job, lol.
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Galio's ult can be avoided if you're on the edge with merc treads. If you're in the exact middle it's much harder to get out of. Flash works wonders here of course. Even better than nunu's because it's less range and not a slow. It will be extremely interesting to see what happens with this patch. I think merc treads will be 100% escape now instead of 50-75%
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Actually I rush Triforce on Cho on TT and I'm 5-0 in ranked with it, basically carrying every game RIGHT SONER?
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Wait wtf I just checked my profile after the patch and it seems like I'm unranked 5-0 in TT, wtf?
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Doesn't show ranked until you've played 10 games now, if I'm not mistaken.
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you need to do 10 matches before you get your rank showing in the profile.
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So I haven't actually played a game yet but ran a few practice games with Malphite jungle, and he's definitely great at it. He was pretty fast (amumu/warwick speed) and I had full health at level 4 with a standard start at blue end at golem path. Armor pen/Dodge/MR runes (Armor quints, armor seals would be amazing), cloth armor, 5 health pot,1/19/11, standard jungle build. Pretty hopeful that Malphite is viable now, at least high tier 3/low tier 2.
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Some ppl up for some 3v3 ranked around 17h30 EST tonight?
Im at 13XX ELO but I belong higher so its some ez win for decent player.
Add me @ SaiBot
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On August 25 2010 03:34 ScDeluX wrote:
Some ppl up for some 3v3 ranked around 17h30 EST tonight?
Im at 13XX ELO but I belong higher so its some ez win for decent player.
Add me @ SaiBot
I love 3v3, playing kassadin or kayle. I haven't gotten to play much ranked in it since my friends are still leveling up.
EDIT: In game name is Kevoom
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On August 25 2010 02:46 Mogwai wrote:
I don't really have a fancy defense for sheen on Sion, but the gist of it is that between your nukes and ult, you can get 2-3 procs of it in a typical "Sion is here and you are dead" fight. AP Sion is all about the 3-4 second burst and Sheen is a really cost effective way to jack that up + it builds into lichbane later which really lets you explode people. Essentially, the way AP sion plays only lets him get 2-3 auto-attacks in anyway, and Sheen is the best way to jack up the damage on those 2-3 attacks.
Now, that being said, I think AP Sion just isn't the way you should build him. At least not in the metagame. AP Sion is a monster insta-gibber, but you basically don't have any good ways to spec for real survivability through AP investments and if you're fighting a bunch of tanks, you need sustained damage output, not this petty burst crap. I'll let other good players say I'm a tard for this, but I think Sion should typically be Sheen -> mercs -> Survivability Item -> Zeal -> Survivability Item -> Triforce -> Tank Spam + maybe LW/Atma's. Doing this lets you have his strong early game (playing much the way straight AP Sion would play it) and then fluidly transition into a reasonably strong late game. This is assuming they have something in the way of squishies though. No squishies, go straight tanking + LW/Atma's, fuck the sheen opening and triforce late game. As far as abilities are concerned I've never seen the point in leveling his stun past 1 unless you're all in on AP, so I'd do stun -> enrage -> shield -> shield -> shield -> ult and then prioritize like this: ult > Shield > Enrage > Stun.
Sorta an aside: I still can't figure out why everyone likes to dump on Triforce. Yes, the item's all over the place, but if you want everything it's giving, it's very efficient at it. No one argues that Sheen, Phage or Zeal is terrible (well, I guess some argue about Sheen, but they're wrong, item's still fine), and then for 300 more you get:
2 AD
5 AP
5% Attack Speed
2% Crit Chance
4% Movespeed
50 Mana
75 Health
Phage Proc Slow increased from 30% to 35%
Sheen Proc Damage increased from 80% to 130%, also if the tooltips are correct, Triforces proc does not have the 3 second CD that Sheen's has.
zzzzz, w/e... on a character like Sion, I still think it's a really balanced 1-stop-shop for all your offensive needs, both burst and sustained. Then again I think Malady's fine on TF so don't mind me, herpdederp.
EDIT: and oh yea, I waltz on out of Galio's Explosion radius with Merc Treads like it's my job, lol.
I'm not a fan of triforce on anyone but poppy and blitz, and actually I don't think I've ever seen any Sion get it, I guess it would be fine for a more aggressive hybrid Sion than mine but I don't like the random slow especially on a char with such a slow attack rate, even if raised by Zeal. The main reason I'd consider triforce is for the movement speed % increase which is beastly and I try to aim for on any character I play (mostly by getting lichbane or FoN).
Lichbane>Triforce imo on sion, you have more tanking capabilities, the % movement increase, the proc which is great for your right click and a dash of magic resist which coupled with merc treads (and mr/18 blues in my case) gives you enough MR to survive the mild annoyance of a couple nukers after you popped shield. And ofc Lichbane makes your shield stronger, which just makes it nearly mandatory on Ahnold.
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hoorah only 3150 champion, i have 3200 ip /pumpfist
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my problem with trinity is that it has alot of different stats. and while all of them might be useful for your champ, sometimes some might be lower priority which makes such an expensive item abit inefficient.
not that i think its the worst item ever. its just definitely not an autoinclude on hybrid champs
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After playing my first game with urdot or whatever his name is, I am fairly impressed. He does a lot of damage, however, he definitely needs to be built tanky imo as he has very little escapability (well, basically none) Seeker missles are like guided karth bombs. Also he is seriously the anti carry. If you ult a squishy (actually any non-tank works), they will die except in very strange circumstances.
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On August 25 2010 03:44 Phrost wrote:
hoorah only 3150 champion, i have 3200 ip /pumpfist
Agreed! I'm frigging excited about that. It's the little things 
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On August 25 2010 03:31 Norp wrote:
So I haven't actually played a game yet but ran a few practice games with Malphite jungle, and he's definitely great at it. He was pretty fast (amumu/warwick speed) and I had full health at level 4 with a standard start at blue end at golem path. Armor pen/Dodge/MR runes (Armor quints, armor seals would be amazing), cloth armor, 5 health pot,1/19/11, standard jungle build. Pretty hopeful that Malphite is viable now, at least high tier 3/low tier 2.
Malphite has always been "viable," he's just been overshadowed of late because he's a strong counter to physical DPS heroes, but physical DPS heroes have gone the way of the lakeside.
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EPT
