EPTBoxer and Yellow and what they showed in ogn semi - Page 7
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
|
Hwoarang
Korea (South)235 Posts
| ||
|
exalted
United States3612 Posts
The people who are also bitching about how he might have lied about beating JulyZerg with the build, are you kidding? Do you think he would choose such a build if it DIDN"T have a chance to work? Hmm. Lets see, I'm going to "try" this build out and then if it works, I'll say that I researched into it, but if not then oh well. Get a brain, it's obvious he works on these cheeses a lot and has the sufficient control to pull them off, mind you, 3 times consecutively. One slip and the game is over, try doing that on a final that everyone is expecting you to win so that they can proclaim you as the Terran Emperor. Hwoarang my speculation is that he told July to 12 hatch so that he could get the timing done on the rush. People call it cheese, cheese takes a huge amount of risk as well, I don't know the circumstances becuase I didn't see the vods yet, but yellow definitely could have say, 7drone scout and had a better idea of what was going on. This is all of course a little disappointing really, I'm a bigger fan of Yellow despite being a T player and I just wonder how he feels after the games -.- | ||
|
1024MB
United States1455 Posts
On November 12 2004 18:24 Slaughter)BiO wrote: I have to agree with HasuWars stance on the boxer/yellow game issue but he IS taking it a bit to far. -.- Oh and A3iL3r0n its called "Respect among Gamers" Boxer is already a God he dosent need this win as much as yellow did. Oh, so he's supposed to lose? Okay. There are so many people who voted for BoxeR and then this sort of crap? What's up with this? Do you guys even know who BoxeR is? Maybe you should research the guy before you start bashing him like everyone bashed Bush. In fact, I'm seeing some similarity right now. SO many people have nothing better to do than go around bashing others. Give me a BREAK. 1) You are not a progamer 2) You know probably 1/10000 about the situation at hand here. 3) Progamers play to WIN. WIN! Yes. That's right. WIN! If they do not bring in WINS, the will have to re-evaluate being on their team. Plus, they won't get prizes which keep their money. If they don't have money, they cannot live. 4) That was perfectly entertaining. Any professional will tell you it's abysmally absurd to blame the attacker for being unique with his strategy. In fact, Bruce Lee's number 1 virtue was to do anything to WIN. He said FORGET STYLES, WIN. 5) The selfishness involved in this is above rediculous. Because you wern't "entertained" by having some sort of stretched-out long game, you are calling a player a "pansy." If you spoke with Yellow right now, he'd probably think this was insane. Get some manners. Korean progamers are far more mannered than you think. You can only dream they are ill-mannered pigs like yourselves for your own comfort. 6) As mentioned before, BoxeR's game is in his CONTROL. That's where he is entertaining, he is able to overcome his opponent as fast as possible with little resources. If his opponent cannot defeat this, that is their problem. 7) Cheese? What Cheese? There is no cheese in games. That's a stupid name made up by people who were frustrated by getting utterly owned by strategies over and over again. Instead of perfecting their game and training vs. these strategies (LIKE PROGAMERS DO), these people named them "cheese" and made fun of them. This is an easy way to: A) Get around training against them. B) Make fun of the person who uses them. C) Attempt to get out of being guilty for not training. Sorry, but there is obviously not "cheese" in REAL PRO gaming. Maybe in your world, but not theirs. In fact, I remember when I was a young boy, when I played my friends and won, they'd go utterly insane and say I was being "cheap." Oooohhh. I see some similarity here. Hence the "young boy" part. ^^ 8) Ok. I'm done here. If you guys can't see the light. Forget it. I'm not even arguing with you any more. Someone who calls BoxeR, the PROGAMING LEGEND, a Pansy, is not worth it. | ||
|
babywolfcn
China53 Posts
| ||
|
Kobayashi
Portugal1970 Posts
On November 12 2004 19:59 1024MB wrote: Oh, so he's supposed to lose? Okay. There are so many people who voted for BoxeR and then this sort of crap? What's up with this? Do you guys even know who BoxeR is? Maybe you should research the guy before you start bashing him like everyone bashed Bush. In fact, I'm seeing some similarity right now. SO many people have nothing better to do than go around bashing others. Give me a BREAK. 1) You are not a progamer 2) You know probably 1/10000 about the situation at hand here. 3) Progamers play to WIN. WIN! Yes. That's right. WIN! If they do not bring in WINS, the will have to re-evaluate being on their team. Plus, they won't get prizes which keep their money. If they don't have money, they cannot live. 4) That was perfectly entertaining. Any professional will tell you it's abysmally absurd to blame the attacker for being unique with his strategy. In fact, Bruce Lee's number 1 virtue was to do anything to WIN. He said FORGET STYLES, WIN. 5) The selfishness involved in this is above rediculous. Because you wern't "entertained" by having some sort of stretched-out long game, you are calling a player a "pansy." If you spoke with Yellow right now, he'd probably think this was insane. Get some manners. Korean progamers are far more mannered than you think. You can only dream they are ill-mannered pigs like yourselves for your own comfort. 6) As mentioned before, BoxeR's game is in his CONTROL. That's where he is entertaining, he is able to overcome his opponent as fast as possible with little resources. If his opponent cannot defeat this, that is their problem. 7) Cheese? What Cheese? There is no cheese in games. That's a stupid name made up by people who were frustrated by getting utterly owned by strategies over and over again. Instead of perfecting their game and training vs. these strategies (LIKE PROGAMERS DO), these people named them "cheese" and made fun of them. This is an easy way to: A) Get around training against them. B) Make fun of the person who uses them. C) Attempt to get out of being guilty for not training. Sorry, but there is obviously not "cheese" in REAL PRO gaming. Maybe in your world, but not theirs. In fact, I remember when I was a young boy, when I played my friends and won, they'd go utterly insane and say I was being "cheap." Oooohhh. I see some similarity here. Hence the "young boy" part. ^^ 8) Ok. I'm done here. If you guys can't see the light. Forget it. I'm not even arguing with you any more. Someone who calls BoxeR, the PROGAMING LEGEND, a Pansy, is not worth it. this was the first time boxer had a negative contribution to this game and that is a fact. He did a lot for this game and this game has done even more for him, and what he did today (or yesterday not quite sure) was a total disrespect for his opponent and the public that made him (and other progamers for that matter) what he is today. For the first time I'll hope to see Boxer losing really bad on an ogn final. This is my last post on the matter, I think pretty much anyone has said their piece. | ||
|
1024MB
United States1455 Posts
On November 12 2004 20:18 Kobayashi wrote: this was the first time boxer had a negative contribution to this game and that is a fact. He did a lot for this game and this game has done even more for him, and what he did today (or yesterday not quite sure) was a total disrespect for his opponent and the public that made him (and other progamers for that matter) what he is today. For the first time I'll hope to see Boxer losing really bad on an ogn final. This is my last post on the matter, I think pretty much anyone has said their piece. You judge respect on what strategy someone uses during the game? Wow, you must consider it murder when you lose then. That's pretty bad mannered. When someone beats you, it's not a swift kick to the balls. It means you were defeated in a game. | ||
|
Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
| ||
|
Elvin_vn
Vietnam2038 Posts
Yellow lost Boxer to 3 bunkers rush on PURPOSE in oder to RUIN Boxer's image in people's eyes muahahaha yellow WON, that's what sun tzu art of war means yellow = >=] | ||
|
Kobayashi
Portugal1970 Posts
| ||
|
Kobayashi
Portugal1970 Posts
On November 12 2004 20:32 Elvin_vn wrote: you guys are stupid, yellow is smart. Yellow lost Boxer to 3 bunkers rush on PURPOSE in oder to RUIN Boxer's image in people's eyes muahahaha yellow WON, that's what sun tzu art of war means yellow = >=] lol | ||
|
Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
| ||
|
1024MB
United States1455 Posts
On November 12 2004 20:31 Slaughter)BiO wrote: I never said Boxer should lay down and let yellow walk over him now did I? Yes I know perfectly well who boxer is but all you boxer boys are just putting him Above the game :[ "boxer cannot do anything wrong or bad" is your mentality and you dive right in to defend him. And yes using that strat 3x in a row shows 0 respect for the player he played against. Why? Because in doing this he knows the Humiliation level will be higher. He didnt have to win in this way now did he? No plain and simple he was out to win in the way that would humiliate yellow the most. A winning move in Starcraft is not, and will never be, "wrong or bad." End of my arguement. | ||
|
Kobayashi
Portugal1970 Posts
On November 12 2004 20:36 1024MB wrote: A winning move in Starcraft is not, and will never be, "wrong or bad." End of my arguement. what is wrong (in my opinion) is that Boxer planed from the start to decide this series in the very first minutes of every game, that imho is a terrible line of thought for someone so influent in this game and will never help bw improve and move forward | ||
uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On November 12 2004 19:34 Excalibur_Z wrote: Oh I disagree. I think Boxer's micro in these games was unbelievable. His SCV line was perfect every time, he moved his SCVs out of the path of his Marines for more maneuverability, and he was able to protect his Bunkers with ease. That is something very few Terran players can do, and Boxer did it consistently. i agree with you too, i didn't mean to suggest i wasn't gaping at the scv/rine vs drone slide dance display. but people i think wanted something like 1 rine catching a lurker or dropship magic-- as that usually gets the oohs and ahhs. but yes, what more pure micro is there than drone vs. scv/rine? ^^ | ||
|
Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
God 1024MB, that post you linked was one heap of trash. I had to literally squint my eyes reading your 8 points. From "You know probably 1/10000 about the situation at hand here." All the way to your young boy description of people who want good games, your post was filled with garbage. I will attempt to try and have a proper argument and counter some of your arguments that arent filled with trash. You say that progamers should do everything they can to win. How would you feel if every single game turned out to be 5-10 minute games filled with 9pools, bunker rushes, proxy gates, and proxy raxes? Do you actually like watching these games? What would happen if when YOU played starcarft, every game would end within 10 mins? Every game you would either win by cheese or lose by it. Im 100% sure you wouldnt be playing this game for long. You say that they shouldnt care about entertaining us. I think they should. Entertainment is the only thing that will keep the fanbase alive. You have to accept that there is a LARGE majority of people out there who actually like long entertaining games. Delivering garbage games like these will do nothing but push them away. If all boxing matches started to end up in 1 round knockouts, nobody will be attracted to watch it. I for one would stop watching it. I watch boxing (and like millions of other people) in hope of that amazing back and forth fight where the boxers give it their all. I remember fights not because they lasted 1 round, but because they went all the way to the 12/14 round where both fighters toughed it out and gave it everything they had. This was also a Boxer vs Yellow CLASSIC. There is no better way to promote this game then have a classic series of back and forth action. Thats why I like players like Nada and Iloveoov (well i dont really like iloveoov but he entertains me) who are able to deliver high quality games. If I want some crappy ass games filled with bunker rushes, ill go play in wgtour myself. Series like these do nothing to promote starcraft. I stayed up all night hoping I would get a good series and all I get is a "Fuck You, I play to win". How do you think this makes me feel? | ||
|
uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On November 12 2004 19:36 Beast_Bg wrote: I agree with you ,that you should respect your opponent and not play risky do-or-die strats.I,myself never ever cheesed in any way vs any opponent for years.Just recently ,though,I thought of a way to use 8 rax in a way that is not so risky and Ive began useing it.Like killing him if he is fast hatch and going rax supply supply gas for very fast bats if hes not and in this way his drone count remains very low ,because he cant make drones in his 2nd hatch as usual and he must make some lings before his hatch completes for defence and Im not even slowed more than a regular 10/12 rax build,because I only skip scvs at 8 9 and 10 supply for like 4-5 secs each time. Btw, since I didnt watch the games..Did Boxer go Rax Supply Rax or Rax Rax Supply in the 3 games?Ill be quite surprised if he went Rax Rax ,cause actually the marines from the second rax cant really be used for the bunker rush and are slowing your economy down incredibly much.(and this I really consider cheese) It would be interesting to know if he had prepared a factory build after 1 rax rush on 1 of the maps, like maybe Mercury, but we may never know.  boxer's build as i saw it was 8 rax 9 depot 16 depot or so to fast acad. so basically, a 1 rax fast acad build with a cheese rush thrown in. so, in essence, getting the benefits of a fast rush + the aggressiveness of a 1 rax acad rush should the scv rush not succeed. | ||
|
Brown
Afghanistan367 Posts
The rush isn't refined, didnt' take nights of hard work to produce. If I were going to do some shitty cheese strategy, I'd try my best to overstate it too, so I don't look like a prick when I win with it three times in a row. To take Boxer's word at face value is so ludicrous, he has much to gain from a favorable public perception of his performance -- that he worked hard for these victories and didn't just cheese his way to the win. | ||
|
Elvin_vn
Vietnam2038 Posts
- Boxer trained very hard before the match - Counter to 8 rax is 9 pool. But Boxer knows this too and he sure planned this as well. - If I 9 pool, I will enter a battle which Boxer prepared for me. - I can play micro game with anyone else, but not with Boxer. 9 pool = automatic lose. - I must do something he never expected. - I must do something he never trained to play with. - I must gamble hatch before pool and pull off his rush by drones. Eventually, Yellow lost. It's not his fault. May be the zerg is so weak in a micro war at early stage. | ||
|
rei
United States3593 Posts
On November 12 2004 20:52 uhjoo wrote: boxer's build as i saw it was 8 rax 9 depot 16 depot or so to fast acad. so basically, a 1 rax fast acad build with a cheese rush thrown in. so, in essence, getting the benefits of a fast rush + the aggressiveness of a 1 rax acad rush should the scv rush not succeed. that's where i was getting at, if yellow cancle his hatch and make one inside his main, or not expanding at all, boxer would run up yellow's cliff with his fast acad rush with bats medics marines. yellow must then sukens up and make more lings, you all know how sick boxer's micro is when he got a group of shits inside a zerg base, and yes it will still play right into boxer's game as he will force yellow to delay tec and dance with boxer using lings | ||
|
uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
On November 12 2004 20:53 Brown wrote: The Koreans in this thread need to take a step back from Boxer's crotch. I rarely agree with Hasu, but he's right this time. So is TomsOn. Boxer got lucky all three times. Yellow didn't expect it thrice and got surprised. The rush isn't refined, didnt' take nights of hard work to produce. If I were going to do some shitty cheese strategy, I'd try my best to overstate it too, so I don't look like a prick when I win with it three times in a row. To take Boxer's word at face value is so ludicrous, he has much to gain from a favorable public perception of his performance -- that he worked hard for these victories and didn't just cheese his way to the win. taking a moment from the awesome head that i'm giving boxer, let me take a breath to respond: so in essence what you're saying is that he really badly wanted to use cheese so he could win, but on the other hand would just lie in the post-game interview so he could recover his "lost popularity?" that's ingenious =/ | ||
| ||
