EPTI highly doubt it if Boxer was thinking that it would work 3 times in a row. Maybe the first one, but not the rest. IMO, the reason why Boxer chose that build was to force Yellow into either a) going into a minor micro-war with him early on (of which he felt he could win), or b) forcing him to go according to a build order that Boxer is more comfortable facing.
Boxer and Yellow and what they showed in ogn semi - Page 6
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goldrush
Canada709 Posts
I highly doubt it if Boxer was thinking that it would work 3 times in a row. Maybe the first one, but not the rest. IMO, the reason why Boxer chose that build was to force Yellow into either a) going into a minor micro-war with him early on (of which he felt he could win), or b) forcing him to go according to a build order that Boxer is more comfortable facing. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On November 12 2004 16:16 soundwave wrote: Boxer's 3-0ing Yellow today proved he is the best starcraft player of all time. I can only compare it to Muhammad Ali's strategy "go to ropes" vs George Foreman, on the 1974 World Boxing Championship: both of them knew what to do to win. As simple as that How could this win make him soo good? He was good at one start that wasnt that spectacular. I could see if he completely out microed/macroed yellow in a 20+ min game and just dominated but this was just so disapointing :[ | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
He 5-0'd july, the zerg with the best early game of any zerg ever, using that build if boxer continues to use it, expanding will become obsolete its brand fucking new, and its going to change how everyone plays tvz how is that not spectacular | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On November 12 2004 18:04 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: not that spectacular? He 5-0'd july, the zerg with the best early game of any zerg ever, using that build if boxer continues to use it, expanding will become obsolete its brand fucking new, and its going to change how everyone plays tvz how is that not spectacular This start is used all the fucking time on wgtour. wtf are you talking about? | ||
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
On November 12 2004 18:09 Slaughter)BiO wrote: This start is used all the fucking time on wgtour. wtf are you talking about? Thats exactly why I stopped playing starcraft. I was sick and tired of the cheap ass bunker rushes. And building in base makes you at a disadvantage while the terran naturally has the advantage after a bunker rush, whether it failed or not. | ||
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
On November 12 2004 17:30 Slaughter)BiO wrote: Boxer Seriously did not show any respect for Yellow. He knows that Yellow is looking to solidify his place by FINALLY winning a league and what dose he do? Dose he give him a good well fought battle of Micr/macro? No he gave him 3 games of the same Bullcrap  He could at least tried to win 1 game in the regular fashion -.- I mean Damn when he was up 2-0 he could have started playing Regular the third game was for pure humiliation.Mmm, no. Why does Boxer owe Yellow anything? That's what makes competition fun, that you are trying to win no matter what (within the rules, of course) and because of this Boxer uses the same move an astonishing three times in a row and wins. He put in hard work to find the opening in the Zerg's build order and capitalize; that is the art of BW shown simply and artfully. | ||
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rei
United States3593 Posts
here is my reply to him: why are you keep insulting me? did i ever use one single word that seems not respectful toward you? what have i done to provoke you? first you call me fucking stupid, now you call me idiot. if you leave out these insult and have a civilized debate, people would love it, but instead you make me drop the hammer on you, and owned you in logic every aspect of your post. and people agree with me, there is nothing more to say, and no matter how much you want to disprove me in this post it's not going to work, cause after i read the title i did not continue on reading the rest of your post. I'm replying meerly trying to convince you to stop insulting people, because use logically well constructed reasoning beats insults anytime and gets much more attention than a post filled with hate. i'm trying to help you understand here. I don't know how old are you, maybe you are too young to understand what i'm saying. so what do you guys think? hasuwar has over 3000 posts, base on that i don't think he desert a ban, but if he keeps insulting anyone that dissagree with him, it's a hard taste for the admins not to do the unthinkable and ban this very active member of our community. | ||
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Painbringer
Norway446 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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DevilZbOy
United States36 Posts
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radiaL
Andorra2690 Posts
 that's when it gets interestinghaving tech at low unit/drone/exp counts, and completely insane micro ensues.. we were close to having that this time, but oh well | ||
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
On November 12 2004 18:24 Slaughter)BiO wrote: I have to agree with HasuWars stance on the boxer/yellow game issue but he IS taking it a bit to far. -.- Oh and A3iL3r0n its called "Respect among Gamers" Boxer is already a God he dosent need this win as much as yellow did. He also knows this is a very big and eargerly awaited game and he dosent even give yellow the benefit of playing a normal game, not even after it was 2-0 :[ Oh and just because Boxer said this and that on his interveiw everyone auto thinks its 100% true. Yea right its a way to cover his ass for such a BS Semi final. Are you fucking serious?! Does Michael Jordan let anybody win because he feels like they deserve an easy game vs him? God, seriously, are you serious? | ||
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Hot77.iEy
Finland1486 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
anyone who is still pissed is either retarded, loves the bandwagon, or is too fucking bad at starcraft to learn how to stop losing to bunker rush every game StarCraft is more a mental game than a contest of macro/micro, it always has been, and boxer fucking destroyed yellow this time around so what if they were short games? omg you weren't entertained? the guy's paid his dues alright? He's got PLENTY of entertaining games and amazing plays. You can't say you hate him because in THREE games he didn't play the way you want him to His rush came THREE TIMES and yellow refused to change his build to compensate. Only Yellow knows why, so don't speculate. i hope he mops the floor with oov, but thats mostly because i love boxer and i dont like oov  | ||
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
On November 12 2004 18:04 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: not that spectacular? He 5-0'd july, the zerg with the best early game of any zerg ever, using that build if boxer continues to use it, expanding will become obsolete its brand fucking new, and its going to change how everyone plays tvz how is that not spectacular Amen. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On November 12 2004 18:15 A3iL3r0n wrote: Mmm, no. Why does Boxer owe Yellow anything? That's what makes competition fun, that you are trying to win no matter what (within the rules, of course) and because of this Boxer uses the same move an astonishing three times in a row and wins. He put in hard work to find the opening in the Zerg's build order and capitalize; that is the art of BW shown simply and artfully. He dosent owe him easy games he just owes him a GOOD FUCKING GAME. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On November 12 2004 13:37 rei wrote: you first point why yellow choose to fight boxer with drones and expanding while knowing boxer is using the same strategy every game. here is why. first you need to understand boxer\'s mind set, which you ignored even when people tell you to read boxer\'s interview. boxer want micro intensive low unit count games. thi is what i think what\'s ganna happen when yellow choose to go off one base with lings to stop the rush. first boxer will realize oh nooo lings!!! that\'s many lings yes? so that\'s one base with many lings and not many drones. i just move my scv back to mine and get firebat and medics fast with very few scvs mining.and then yellow recon boxer\'s shit and goes like, crap he\'s powering up units i better make more lings and delay my tec so i dont\' get rape easly. so both got low economy and both of them is going to micro their ass off with the units they have. but now boxer has firebats medics and marines, while yellow got lings and mroe lings. so they go micro war just as boxer expected, but now boxer got even more advantage cause he has better units to micro with. so it ends up with the same goal boxer wanted to achieve, which is low unit count, micro war. Actually, I'm not sure if anyone said this, but, not teching when you see bats would be really, REALLY stupid. Bats own the shit out of lings easily, and not teching when you see bats, but making more lings, would just be stupid. It would make more sense to tech to lurk, or Muta/ling the T, than to mass lings, because the lings would be raped so easily. On the Boxer's strategic genius, again, not sure if anyone said this, but, honestly, who the hell expects someone to do the SAME FUCKING THING three times in a row? I think it's more a case of Yellow getting caught off guard. At the same time, I have to say, Boxer really did a good job on the strat, he obviously put a lot of work into it. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12226 Posts
On November 12 2004 10:12 uhjoo wrote: i know i won't forget this series, despite the fact we didn't see "incredible" micro or a close back and forth series of games. there are plenty of those to go around, especially the other games bewteen boxer and yellow, and there will be plenty more of those in the future. but i highly doubt we'll ever see a series like this again. of course this is just my opinion, but feel free to flame and otherwise twist my logic around ^^;; Oh I disagree. I think Boxer's micro in these games was unbelievable. His SCV line was perfect every time, he moved his SCVs out of the path of his Marines for more maneuverability, and he was able to protect his Bunkers with ease. That is something very few Terran players can do, and Boxer did it consistently. | ||
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Beast_Bg
Bulgaria1623 Posts
On November 12 2004 17:30 Slaughter)BiO wrote: Boxer Seriously did not show any respect for Yellow. He knows that Yellow is looking to solidify his place by FINALLY winning a league and what dose he do? Dose he give him a good well fought battle of Micr/macro? No he gave him 3 games of the same Bullcrap He could at least tried to win 1 game in the regular fashion -.- I mean Damn when he was up 2-0 he could have started playing Regular the third game was for pure humiliation.I agree with you ,that you should respect your opponent and not play risky do-or-die strats.I,myself never ever cheesed in any way vs any opponent for years.Just recently ,though,I thought of a way to use 8 rax in a way that is not so risky and Ive began useing it.Like killing him if he is fast hatch and going rax supply supply gas for very fast bats if hes not and in this way his drone count remains very low ,because he cant make drones in his 2nd hatch as usual and he must make some lings before his hatch completes for defence and Im not even slowed more than a regular 10/12 rax build,because I only skip scvs at 8 9 and 10 supply for like 4-5 secs each time. So ,I kinda think Boxer would do something like this if he saw Yellow making hatch before pool and would still be in a good position.Its more Yellows fault for underestimating the 8 rax build. Though I dont like Boxer for doing it either.But he certainly showed the world for the 1000th time that he can always win and always with the most unexpected strategy. Btw, since I didnt watch the games..Did Boxer go Rax Supply Rax or Rax Rax Supply in the 3 games?Ill be quite surprised if he went Rax Rax ,cause actually the marines from the second rax cant really be used for the bunker rush and are slowing your economy down incredibly much.(and this I really consider cheese) It would be interesting to know if he had prepared a factory build after 1 rax rush on 1 of the maps, like maybe Mercury, but we may never know.  | ||
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Painbringer
Norway446 Posts
And how can it be a great game if both players don`t do everything to win the entire time? Boxers build wasn`t do or die. So he wasn`t cheesing, then can someone explain to me what boxer did wrong? | ||
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