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Analysis of Terran Weaponry - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Luisa_2
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany200 Posts
September 29 2012 00:31 GMT
#101
Man big time write-up once again, thanks dude!
"Tasteless,why did the Colossus fall over?" "Why?" " Because it was imbalanced"
desarrisc
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Canada226 Posts
September 29 2012 02:36 GMT
#102
Wraith

Originally, I was going to write about the Banshee, but I realized that the story behind the Banshee would be incomplete without its predecessor: the Wraith.
[image loading]

Wraith is a space superiority fighter that specializes in air-to-air combat, with the focus on surgical precision strikes with the ability to phase out of vision with cloaking field technology. It is equipped with three cylindrical jet propulsion engines: two lateral and one basal. This triple jet system allows for various rotational maneuverability by controlling the level of thrust that is coming out of each engine, and this engine system made the wraiths extremely elusive on the battlefield.

[image loading]

The wraiths are lightly armed as to retain their speed and maneuverability in space. Standard models of wraiths are armed with pods of gemini missiles against aerial opponents and a positron-25mm burst laser system against ground troops. Gemini heat-seeking missiles with their heavy piercing warheads and delayed charges make them potent anti-air weaponry regardless of the target, but they excel at bringing down large spacecrafts that move too slow to dodge the missiles.

Tragically, 25mm burst laser is pitifully weak in comparison to the gemini missiles. It provides minimal level of anti-ground ability by directing a ray of positron at a target to critically disrupt the genomic content in biological targets or damaging any exposed electrical systems in mechanical targets. However, this weapon is based on stellar radiation from nearby stars, and it takes precious seconds to recharge the beam in combat, making it not really viable against targets that can fire back. So wraith pilots are trained to prioritize only injured targets with no anti-air capacity.

[image loading]


The wraith pilots are brave, intelligent civilians that pass a criminal record check. Due to the expensive price tag of the airship as well as the difficulty in operating these special ops ships, wraith pilots have to be particularly smart and well-trained. All pilots reportedly have at least five years of basic spacecraft experience, then undergo two years of brutal combat training. Also, their salary is high, and the pension pays out well if they manage to survive minimum eight years of service.

[image loading]

The design of cloaking field is considered one of the highest achievement in Terran technological advances. The specially-coated wraith covers itself in a strong electromagnetic (EM) field that can trap any incoming UV, visible, and infrared EM waves within the orbit of cloaking field. So when the light waves approach wraith, it doesn't become deflected to be visible by most organisms. As long as the cloaking core remains powered by helios or apollo reactor (though later variants were equipped with extremely powerful Tomahawk power cells), the light remains trapped in the orbit of the cloaking field. The Protoss observer, mothership, arbiter, and dark templar are known to use similar concepts in their cloaking abilities, but their source of energy, psi, is not yet fully understood by the Terran researchers.

[image loading]

This cloaking field can be annuled by the detector systems that use specialized radio waves or strong EM field that counters the one generated by the wraith; scanner sweep and raven uses the former whereas ghost's EMP is an example of the latter. How overseers can detect cloaked units have been a mystery, but there are hypotheses that suggest overseers have an extremely wide spectrum of EM that it can "see".

So you may wonder why these stealthy beauties were discontinued by the Dominion completely.

[image loading]

The main reason was that as Brood War closed out, there were no particular purpose for stealth anti-air spaceship. The valkyrie began to replace this role of AA even in the BW, and eventually the superior, flexible vikings took on the role of striking down enemy spacecrafts from afar. The anti-ground capability of wraith was awfully inadequate to begin with, and against rebel forces who were mostly ground-based, the wraiths were deemed too expensive of investment. Finally, even in air combat, the Protoss became more agile, with the advent of corsair and phoenix, and extremely mobile mutalisks were often too powerful against the wraiths.

By 2504, there were reportedly no more wraiths in the Dominion Air Forces in service. But the recent leak of top-secret reports suggest that there are couple of divisions still remaining that are stealthily eliminating any enemy airships against the might of the Dominion.

[image loading]

"In space, we were the strongest and the bravest mother****ers. Dodging muta spit and corsair beams, we blew up anything that flew up. In my career, my squadron even took down a rogue battlecruiser and couple of carriers with little loss. But near planetary surface, we're like fish out of water. My friend plummeted to the ground when he tried to destroy a couple of damaged goliaths with the pitiful flashlight gun [burst laser] we had."
- Col. Pats Lento, a retired veteran wraith pilot in his banned memoir, Silent Squadron

[image loading]
"Your opponent's doing anything out of the ordinary? Just go f**king kill him." -Day [9]
iKill
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Denmark861 Posts
September 29 2012 09:59 GMT
#103
Interesting One would assume that the advent of the banshee had reasons similar to that of the hellion - that it is far more suitable for shock-and-awe bombing runs to keep rebellious factions in check and civilians in fear.
thepuppyassassin: "My god... the deathball's grown wings!"
Melwach
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany176 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 11:19:44
September 29 2012 11:18 GMT
#104
On September 29 2012 18:59 iKill wrote:
One would assume that the advent of the banshee had reasons similar to that of the hellion - that it is far more suitable for shock-and-awe bombing runs to keep rebellious factions in check and civilians in fear.


I believe that's exactly what they say in the WOL-Campaign.

I also like to think of the wraith more as a space fighter, while the dominion developed more specialized flyers for atmospheric combat over time which replaced it. The Banshee and even the viking due to it's versatility are more efficient in ground combat than the rather weak lasers of the wraith. In addition to that the viking proves to be a good air-air fighter too. While beeing more bulky and probably less fast, it looks like having a stronger hull, which let it endure more anti-air fire from the ground.
The wraith was much more agile but seems to be more vulnerable to combat damage..so it's probably more specialized in dogfights and not something you'd like to use in a full scale battle.
Come for the culture. Stay for the cultural decline.
desarrisc
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Canada226 Posts
September 29 2012 15:06 GMT
#105
On September 29 2012 20:18 Melwach wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 18:59 iKill wrote:
One would assume that the advent of the banshee had reasons similar to that of the hellion - that it is far more suitable for shock-and-awe bombing runs to keep rebellious factions in check and civilians in fear.


I believe that's exactly what they say in the WOL-Campaign.

I also like to think of the wraith more as a space fighter, while the dominion developed more specialized flyers for atmospheric combat over time which replaced it. The Banshee and even the viking due to it's versatility are more efficient in ground combat than the rather weak lasers of the wraith. In addition to that the viking proves to be a good air-air fighter too. While beeing more bulky and probably less fast, it looks like having a stronger hull, which let it endure more anti-air fire from the ground.
The wraith was much more agile but seems to be more vulnerable to combat damage..so it's probably more specialized in dogfights and not something you'd like to use in a full scale battle.


You two are completely correct. I originally intended to put that idea into Banshee writeup so I decided to not put it into here for Wraith. Also, Banshee uses a different propulsion system and is incapable of interspace flights, the trade-off is that it can be extremely effective in low orbital ground combat.

Oh you smart readers. >_<
"Your opponent's doing anything out of the ordinary? Just go f**king kill him." -Day [9]
winsause
Profile Joined March 2011
United States65 Posts
September 29 2012 16:05 GMT
#106
This thread is really awesome, nice job. I am suprised that you didn't bring up the gravity-jet pack things on the marines.
Scootaloo
Profile Joined January 2012
655 Posts
September 29 2012 16:42 GMT
#107
I love it how you explain away the vultures obvious superiority compared to the hellions, it's not easy to rationalize the ass-backwards Browderian design.
Shartugal
Profile Joined September 2011
Denmark134 Posts
September 29 2012 16:48 GMT
#108
These threads are so cool to read through, I really enjoyed your analysis, and I hope to see you examinate other terran units as well (The medivac next please)
Hot_Bid:" What are your longterm plans?" Seiplo:"Money, fame and bitches"
poogpoogs
Profile Joined September 2012
11 Posts
September 29 2012 21:54 GMT
#109
I love the thread!
Been lurking around for a while now. Really like the analysis and history/background
But I had an idea that the cloaking was from bent light beams( is that even possible?) but it was too energy-expensive to bend light other than the visible spectrum, so overseers, (which can, I assume, see infrared, etc.) can see through it, whilst others only see a mild shimmering distorted effect.
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
September 30 2012 04:29 GMT
#110
I'm pretty sure spider mines killed more friendly units than enemies over the course of Brood War. I imagine all the vulture drivers found themselves rather unpopular each time a Zealot ran in towards some tanks.
desarrisc
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Canada226 Posts
September 30 2012 06:06 GMT
#111
On September 30 2012 06:54 poogpoogs wrote:
I love the thread!
Been lurking around for a while now. Really like the analysis and history/background
But I had an idea that the cloaking was from bent light beams( is that even possible?) but it was too energy-expensive to bend light other than the visible spectrum, so overseers, (which can, I assume, see infrared, etc.) can see through it, whilst others only see a mild shimmering distorted effect.


Thanks for reading!

As explained in the wraith thread, yes, cloaking units essentially trap nearby electromagnetic waves (UV/Visible/Infrared light) within an orbit of the electromagnetic field around the vehicle/ghost. Essentially it's like creating a mini static black hole around the unit that light can't escape from as long as the cloaking field is active. Overseers seem to bypass this by being able to "see" through almost the entire spectrum of EM waves or they must use some sound/pressure based sensing.

On September 30 2012 13:29 Ribbon wrote:
I'm pretty sure spider mines killed more friendly units than enemies over the course of Brood War. I imagine all the vulture drivers found themselves rather unpopular each time a Zealot ran in towards some tanks.


Oh yeah, most vehicle operators are really hated among their own forces. Often the conspiracy goes that seige tanks were dealing more damage to allied units than to enemy soldiers due to their massive blast range, and that vulture's spider mines often malfunction and target allied units as well.

Spider mines are loaded with bio-mechanical-scanning sequence that detects whether the target is registered as allied or not, but these things malfunctioned a lot, so the marines and firebats never really trusted crossing a minefield set by allied vulture squadron. Also, protoss zealots are absolutely crazy with no respect for their own lives, and they'd drag these mines sometimes up to a kilometer to kill a tank for Aiur.
"Your opponent's doing anything out of the ordinary? Just go f**king kill him." -Day [9]
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6225 Posts
September 30 2012 07:04 GMT
#112
Why don't they just make the missiles point downward?
good vibes only
desarrisc
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Canada226 Posts
September 30 2012 07:16 GMT
#113
On September 30 2012 16:04 Meta wrote:
Why don't they just make the missiles point downward?


It's designed for interspace combat where heat/electronic signature of the enemy target is clear even from afar, but around most planetary systems the planet's specific temperature/magnetic field messes with any near orbital targeting. Also, missiles are too expensive for ground targets that it might or might not hit.
"Your opponent's doing anything out of the ordinary? Just go f**king kill him." -Day [9]
Apom
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
France655 Posts
September 30 2012 07:20 GMT
#114
Kinda late to the party, but : the vulture was prone to nuclear material leakage (or accidental explosion, can't remember which). The Hyperion engineer explains so in the WoL campaign mission where you get the vultures.
lolnice
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany11 Posts
September 30 2012 11:29 GMT
#115
Always wondered about the Battle Cruiser..
looking forward to it
Archonn
Profile Joined September 2012
6 Posts
September 30 2012 13:48 GMT
#116
The Wraith/Banshee would have been a effective combo, maybe more effective than Viking/Banshee. The Viking is still very fragile (just 125 hit points, just like the wraith). I also don't like how Vikings are too slow to escape effectively from Stimpack Marines or Blinking Stalkers, which both rip light air units to shreds.
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
September 30 2012 13:53 GMT
#117
--- Nuked ---
Archonn
Profile Joined September 2012
6 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-30 15:04:04
September 30 2012 14:26 GMT
#118
On September 30 2012 22:53 monkybone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2012 22:48 Archonn wrote:
The Wraith/Banshee would have been a effective combo, maybe more effective than Viking/Banshee. The Viking is still very fragile (just 125 hit points, just like the wraith). I also don't like how Vikings are too slow to escape effectively from Stimpack Marines or Blinking Stalkers, which both rip light air units to shreds.


The key point about the viking is its range. Reduce it and its efficiency would have been reduced drastically. I don't know the range of wraiths, but i assume it is much lower. Anyway, consider how useless it would be in TvP: With an obs the stalkers would shoot them down instantly, and if any of them have energy they would get feedbacked. In TvZ they would just clump up even more than vikings do.


That's why I used the comsat scan in TvP back in Sc1. You could just scan, and then just kill the Observers in just around 3 seconds (If it's just one Observer, a group of Wraiths could just one shot it and the stalkers could only hope to just get one volley of attack). Now the wraiths have a weak ground attack for killing the helpless ground units, but that would not be a issue if you had some Banshees around. You could argue that Vikings snipe obs for Banshees too, but without the support of a large enough ground army, the stalkers would just blink near them. Since Viking lack the speed, they would just get shot down like sitting ducks.

And if the Protoss player has Templars out already, then it's very likely Terran player would have Ghosts by then which could EMP them, preventing the use of feedback or psi storm.

In TvZ, Wraiths would be even more effective than they were in Sc1 because not every Overlord can detect cloaked units now.
desarrisc
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Canada226 Posts
September 30 2012 20:11 GMT
#119
On September 30 2012 23:26 Archonn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2012 22:53 monkybone wrote:
On September 30 2012 22:48 Archonn wrote:
The Wraith/Banshee would have been a effective combo, maybe more effective than Viking/Banshee. The Viking is still very fragile (just 125 hit points, just like the wraith). I also don't like how Vikings are too slow to escape effectively from Stimpack Marines or Blinking Stalkers, which both rip light air units to shreds.


The key point about the viking is its range. Reduce it and its efficiency would have been reduced drastically. I don't know the range of wraiths, but i assume it is much lower. Anyway, consider how useless it would be in TvP: With an obs the stalkers would shoot them down instantly, and if any of them have energy they would get feedbacked. In TvZ they would just clump up even more than vikings do.


That's why I used the comsat scan in TvP back in Sc1. You could just scan, and then just kill the Observers in just around 3 seconds (If it's just one Observer, a group of Wraiths could just one shot it and the stalkers could only hope to just get one volley of attack). Now the wraiths have a weak ground attack for killing the helpless ground units, but that would not be a issue if you had some Banshees around. You could argue that Vikings snipe obs for Banshees too, but without the support of a large enough ground army, the stalkers would just blink near them. Since Viking lack the speed, they would just get shot down like sitting ducks.

And if the Protoss player has Templars out already, then it's very likely Terran player would have Ghosts by then which could EMP them, preventing the use of feedback or psi storm.

In TvZ, Wraiths would be even more effective than they were in Sc1 because not every Overlord can detect cloaked units now.


I try my best to explain Terran unit designs in context of the lore rather from the gameplay, because sc1/2 gameplay are all based on low-orbital combat situations (not much space-space battles without ground troops). Essentially, in space-based combat, vikings would be able to devastate large capital ships, overlords, and other flying things much better than a wraith would.

On low-orbital combat scenarios, yes, wraiths/banshees would kick ass so much. Especially since overlords lost the ability to detect in exchange for ability to poop creep.
"Your opponent's doing anything out of the ordinary? Just go f**king kill him." -Day [9]
Evangelist
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
1246 Posts
September 30 2012 21:36 GMT
#120
I should love this thread, but some of the reasoning is a bit rubbish :p The cloak field idea is so silly - particularly when you consider that it would be countered, in seconds, by acoustic sonar and radar (since the field couldn't trap radio waves due to communication).

Much easier to just invoke meta-materials and claim that the rest is due to low profile cold thrusters, ramjets, unusual acoustic profiling and stealth plating.

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