EPT[D] Thorzain Build TvP build - Page 5
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ridonkulous
159 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
NO, the Thor is extremely powerful outside of timing builds. It is probably the second most powerful late game unit against P next to the ghost. npnp thanks for all the feedback Ironic | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On May 04 2011 23:23 secondparttohell wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216605 So Thor will now have energy and strike cannon will now cost 150 energy. This will make ThorZaIN Mech build much more vulnerable to HT. I think now I will have to incorporate more ghosts in ThorZaIN mech build to deal with the HT, luckily the ghost price has changed to 200-100 now which is a good thing. So what do you guys think about this? ThorZaIN are you around here? Any thoughts on how you will modify your build. I am quite sad to be honest, I have been winning more and more TvP with iEchoic build and ThorZaIN build come as an interesting alternative and now it got nerfed  Blizzard has some weird thing that any mech build that becomes viable they nerf into the ground. I don't know if it's browder or some non-sensical fear of the game being like "brood war" but finally anytime a solid mech build that comes up becomes possible it's gone soon after because yah...as said...dustin browder is a marauder lol. | ||
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secondparttohell
13 Posts
On May 04 2011 23:38 Antisocialmunky wrote: I'm getting tired of seeing "ZOMG BLIZZARD NERF THOR CUZ OF THORZAIN." NO, the Thor is extremely powerful outside of timing builds. It is probably the second most powerful late game unit against P next to the ghost. Ironic What race are you playing? Have you ever used this build and seen it being countered? | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
Thors are strong by themselves in TvP, its not because of Thorzain's build. | ||
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secondparttohell
13 Posts
On May 05 2011 00:19 Antisocialmunky wrote: I play Terran and like to use Thors. Thors are strong by themselves in TvP, its not because of Thorzain's build. Same here, however I think Protoss upgrade gateway army + immortal can do perfectly ok with Thor army or can at least make the engagement an army trade which ultimately is good for P because they can remax much faster than T. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
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secondparttohell
13 Posts
On May 05 2011 00:30 Antisocialmunky wrote: It depends on engagement location to be honest, if the immortals get into position and don't get EMPed/cannoned and if the Thors are poorly supported poorly, the Protoss can come off ahead. The problem with Immortals is the 2 less range and their slow/wonky pathfinding. That's exactly what I thought. On big map the THor army mix vulnerable to flanking due to the relatively immobile characteristics. Of course hellion are fast but the Thors are not. Flanking with chargelots on one side and blink stalkers on the other side on top of Thor army and then bring the immortal in. I have lost couple of times due to that. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
Another thing to note is that late game Terran has the biggest food army due to mules and foodless stuff they can build that influences the battle. | ||
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Curana
Canada1 Post
Here is a rough build order: http://www.sc2replayed.com/pages/starcraft-2-news/158-trumps-tvp-thor-build and some replays: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=193434 | ||
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Tvk
Latvia62 Posts
Well. I got about 10 looses in row with this build :D everytime lost to voidray push / 4gate and so on :// Then swithed back to marauder+viking and instant 10 wins in row vs protoss  ) | ||
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secondparttohell
13 Posts
On May 05 2011 02:54 Tvk wrote: Tried out this build. Well. I got about 10 looses in row with this build :D everytime lost to voidray push / 4gate and so on :// Then swithed back to marauder+viking and instant 10 wins in row vs protoss )You mean mech build vs P ? Voidray push can be tricky to deal with but 4 gate is not that bad u will have one bunker 1 hellion and your CC building at the time it's hit. You can rally 10-12 scvs to surround the bunker for repairing and repel the push. Afterward you can quickly catch up economically due to 2 OC and also have a tech advantage. | ||
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TG_CryMeAReaver
United States7 Posts
I remember watching ThorZain use this build effectively on Xelnaga Caverns and on Crossfire in his TL3 matches vs Liquid Tyler and OGSMC however I cannot recall him using this build on larger maps. If I recall correctly ThorZain did not use this build on Tal'Darim against OGSMC and went for a more "standard" bio build. In general how does one compensate for the immobility of mech (especially Thors) on larger maps? | ||
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Tvk
Latvia62 Posts
On May 05 2011 03:33 secondparttohell wrote: You mean mech build vs P ? Voidray push can be tricky to deal with but 4 gate is not that bad u will have one bunker 1 hellion and your CC building at the time it's hit. You can rally 10-12 scvs to surround the bunker for repairing and repel the push. Afterward you can quickly catch up economically due to 2 OC and also have a tech advantage. I scouted 4gate, i placed 2 bunkers, i had 7marines 1 hellion and a tank, he FF my bunkers so i couldnt repair them and killed me This build is very vulnerable to any kind of rush. While MMM is against everything, just add right units later - vikings, ghost. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
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secondparttohell
13 Posts
On May 05 2011 05:29 TG_CryMeAReaver wrote: I was wondering whether a Thor-based composition would leave many Terran susceptible to counter-attacks on larger maps and if so do Terran lose out on the base trade. I remember watching ThorZain use this build effectively on Xelnaga Caverns and on Crossfire in his TL3 matches vs Liquid Tyler and OGSMC however I cannot recall him using this build on larger maps. If I recall correctly ThorZain did not use this build on Tal'Darim against OGSMC and went for a more "standard" bio build. In general how does one compensate for the immobility of mech (especially Thors) on larger maps? Well except if you have air units/secret bases/some sort of advantage I would not suggest base trade against T. I could fly up almost my entire base to a corner when my main army demolish your base  | ||
EG.Thorzain
Sweden164 Posts
They already counter MMM. They counter banshees, raven and battlecruiser play. Now they will counter Thors too? "Well just use ghosts to counter templars!" I just don't like only having one way in dealing with a certain unit, and that way being pretty "risky" (Even though ghosts "counters" templars, templars "counters" ghosts too). If blizzard saw a problem in Thor play i just wish they would have tried to balance it in another way (don't ask me how). I'm not whining because I don't think this will make protoss imba vs terran in any way, I just think that it will make things more one-dimensional. | ||
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Moja
United States313 Posts
On May 05 2011 06:45 Thorzain wrote: I dont get why templars are going to have to counter almost every unit the terran has. They already counter MMM. They counter banshees, raven and battlecruiser play. Now they will counter Thors too? "Well just use ghosts to counter templars!" I just don't like only having one way in dealing with a certain unit, and that way being pretty "risky" (Even though ghosts "counters" templars, templars "counters" ghosts too). If blizzard saw a problem in Thor play i just wish they would have tried to balance it in another way (don't ask me how). I'm not whining because I don't think this will make protoss imba vs terran in any way, I just think that it will make things more one-dimensional. Agreed. It would be a different story if mass thor was the main strategy and MMMVG was rare... But to destroy this strategy in its infancy before it has a chance to permeate (and potentially revolutionize) the metagame is just stupid. | ||
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Tvk
Latvia62 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
I don't really agree about one dimensional. That's why blizz only gave them 200pts of energy and it will only sorta of hurt them. One not only needs to land feedbacks which is countered by ghost a protoss still needs a formidable force to deal with thors since as you have noted before their armor upgrade put them over the top and they do massive ground DPS. At least we will get to see immortal stand a chance now. Please don't feel bad about HT's being able to damage half your units because terran has Ghost which damages ALL protoss units not just half. | ||
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