Looking Back on 1 Years of Blood Bath on TLnet - Page 4

On May 20 2005 11:53 ChApFoU wrote:


explain me how you can let a terran setup on BB, just go zeal+cannon

to the ones saying you can defend a good microed and timed ( meaning playing any half decent toss) zeal cannon rush with 1rax bunk upload replay plz

On May 20 2005 12:11 labcoated wrote:


i disagree. starcraft isn't like that. there can be some guessing involved, especially on BB. if you know someone is going to do one of these builds, you could do something not on this list that is better in many cases, so you can't say "only these builds are good." i also think some of the builds are sub-optimal, actually, although they're "close enough."

Small map , you scout you see what they are doing, not much guessing there is it?

i doubt this is the best build to try to pull off rine/scv cheese. severely. i've beaten this off with a 6 pool plenty of times. can't remember what else (toss, terran, or a 9pool). kinda interested in how those would play out, actually. i think when someone gives up their economy like this you can almost always micro decently and end up with an even game or better. if not, you were taking too great of a risk.


this is one of those do or die strats that forces them to pull drone micro, you will still have a decent enough economy if the bunk fails and you make a safety bunk when you realize you aren't going to kill him. but you will major disadvantage or lose if hes as good as you.


this is the "safe" build against any pool. although it's not really important to say when to build the bunker. you build it when the rax is done. you really can scout while the rax is building to decide if you need to bunk or not.
yea, well thats when the bunk comes lol



BSB, same thing as above really in most micro cases. if you scout right, the bunker is okay except maybe against a 4 pool or a 5 pool which is fair micro anyways. 6 pool won't stop the bunk.


This build stops 4 pools too.



so what are you supposed to use this against? toss, i'm assuming? why didn't you even say what these builds are supposed to be for?
its a wall for 11 bridge spot vs toss of course, vs Z risky but pays off.



okay, why is this on the list then? 4 pool is faster than 5, and 6 pool is better than 5 too. you can go 6 pool, drone, lord, send out a drone scout when you get 100 minerals (after lord). i also suggest lord scouting diagnally to throw them off, see where early scouting comes from, etc.
I would say out of all the fast pool builds that 5 or 9 are the most optimal builds, the rest are just not as good.




this build is wrong. if you 9 pool 9 gas you should 8 lord. everybody knows that. 9 pool seems to be the best economy you can get while still being okay to a 4 pool (or whatever), and speed is important eh.
I always make the drone before the lord and its fine



jesus how is this on your list? what exactly is this safe against? why not 12 hatch while you're at it? i'm not doubting you here but i think this is too vague. i want to know your reasoning behind this specific build. is this to beat a 9 pool, i'm assuming? how about a 9/10 gate? what about a 9 rax? those should be expected on BB, so i can only assume that this build is supposed to beat those. i don't know personally.

ok this is an old strat I used to use to beat terrans , its very similar to the zeal/canon shit. requires you to harrass and crap, but with good terran scv/rine micro you lose.


solid against a 6 pool? i could see a 9 gate saving a toss but 10?

10 works with probe micro but if you scouted dont make the second gate make a battery and a pylon seeing as how you have to pull probes to fight with zeo you wont have the money to support 2 gates.


so when do you use this build? wouldn't you rather get your 2nd gate up? why the battery? (i know this was already said)

if you scout zerg 4 or 5 pool is when I use this.


a good zerg will max out on 17/17 and run in with speedlings. toss or terran. anyone can respond to this build just fine. it only is even against something shitty like a 4 pool. so why is this on your list if you say it sucks?

Because you can defend a rush easy with it but it allows the oponent map control which I do not recomend. Its already hard enough trying to scout a zerg to see tech. With this build you are playing blind but you can get gas a little sooner. not a good trade if you ask me.




(just to reiterate my point) ... that's false. some of these builds are equally "bullshit that should never work" and some builds you excluded are on equal footing with the better ones you listed here. i'm sure you're a good bloodbath player but i don't think all of your details are really perfect. you can be a winning player without having the perfect details so don't take it personally.

On May 20 2005 12:49 BloodBath wrote:
MVP go east op bbath now


P.S. Where is a place I can host reps so people can see what I mean with the timing on strats and stuff?

On May 20 2005 09:24 exalted wrote:
Personally I don't see how a Protoss can even secure a 2nd expo without full center control, which is not possible due to Siege Tank range being so massive - what'll happen is that the Terran can just play 2 base vs 1 and the Protoss will never be able to mine that expo becuase of Vulture harass that can keep running through the center, mining the fuck out of that place, and hitting the nexus / probes - meanwhile any Protoss forces that go through there will have to get bombed by Siege Tanks XD.

To me, Protoss's only real opportunity is to hit the Terran hard before he can control his choke, either by killing him with Zeal / Cannon or by killing him before he is secure with Zealpressure into Ranged Goons.

On May 20 2005 13:53 MVP[eV] wrote:
Im at work bud, its not even 5pm eastern yet.

Also im not home to play videogames on friday nights, maybe ill be on over the weekend during the day.

On May 20 2005 16:18 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:


Of course they can't. You have to hit T with zealots (cannons work too). Easy as that. Then you have to force him to bottle up without losing to many zeals (I'd consider 2 to many) and then harass some with the 1 or 2 goons you have before they get range and then harass some more when they get range and then you have to own his rine/med (possibly 1 vult or tank) attack and then, finally you can expand. If it went good you migth even have templar archives (you must have legs at this point anyway.)

It's not impossible at all, but it's a straigth micro battle (also some multitasking for toss and building placement for terran) and every time you fail even a little as a toss with one thing the next get's harder and if you fail again it get's exponentially harder. Basically if he secures his chocke and has siege and you don't have some kind of other considerable advantage your fucked. The running vults thing doesn't really work since 1/3 - 2/3's of your army will be at that place anywhere and your army is bigger than his.

But yeah, BB is imbalanced in TvP, because T can lose attacks and still win but if toss fucks up once he's dead. Not to say it's unplayable because there's so many small things involved and toss can hold an advantage so if your better it will show after the first minutes of harassment and small battles and by then you have enough advantage to win. I've never really done a zealot cannon rusch since I mostly play 2on2 and I don't consider it viable in 2on2 so I don't do it because it's only a bad habit.

Anyway, this is just My 2 cent. I'm not gosu or anything but I'm still better than the vast average of BB players (much better even) so I imagine I speak somewhat from experience at least.

Also; mines rape so hard early game because often toss has no obs because he went templar archives. (Because you absolutly need legs and reaver is so far away and you need that MM counter so bad, plus that storm is nice either way because of the small middle and DT's are good harass.)

One thing to try if the T are camping middle. Send in one or two speed zeals to draw some inital mines. They will hopefully make it almost into the middle and detonate those mines. Then send in a DT and pray to god that T doesn't notice it and can scan before it get's there. Head for the largest group of units (I prefer the vults) and if your lucky one of the mines that will be everywhere blows shit up. It's a cramped place so really perfect mine placement is hard.

On May 20 2005 16:46 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
If he has mines he has tanks. (Siege first, then mines, then speed, in that order.)

Says who?? it depends on the situation you dont always gets seige first what if he went DT?

If he has tanks your not just going to walts in and kill them, so there will be mines.
Siege > cannons so that doesn't help either.

who said anything about waltzing in and killing tanks or canons would stop tanks?

T pushes out of his base, next step he secures middle, next step he clears entrance to one base, next step your fucked, so cannons aren't that much of an aid.

canons are for early game to stop MnM and later they help agaisnt vulture raids

It's imbalanced because T don't need the perfect micro that P has to have and can afford a few slipups, thus it's imbalanced.

so you are saying T can just attack move and win?

And since he should be going MMF for his first big attack + a few tanks + some scv's I'd seriously want templars because it can be pretty hard with equal micro on both sides and a good firebat ratio.

its all situational as i wrote before, if he has alot of MnM and/or went 2 rax he will get tanks slower and you should get storm first. If he went 1 rax and/or No MnM you dont need storm really and you can get straight to obs and shuttles.

Of course you can ignore templars and dt's completly (which is stupid, since you need legs and if you pressured good DT's are excellent harass against a terran with mainly MM) and go robo obs but the only thing it really buys you is some added effectivness against mines. Shuttles are only usefull if the T is stupid (no turrets so bring rines, they are pretty good anyway and you have 2 rax) and reavers become much worse once he goes mainly mech with only a few rines (or perhaps even gols) as AA.

What the fuck? I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, but ill try and reply anyways. DT suck 95% of the time, he can scan you seeing how he doesnt really need to scan your base he can fly ebay into it, or try and micro an scv past your forces. Shuttles are always useful because the paths are narrow and it drops a flank attack on a tank regardless if he has 10 marines or nothing at all. Normally I only get shuttles if he teched to vulture/tank anyways, because i would rather get archives tech instead of robo tech. And who said terran Has to 2 rax vs P? Reavers vs MnM is stupid on any map, anyone with decent micro can kill a shitty reaver with a few marines.

Also BB is not balanced.

T>P
T>Z
P>Z