EPTLooking Back on 1 Years of Blood Bath on TLnet - Page 5
| Forum Index > BW General |
|
BloodBath
United States409 Posts
| ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2510 Posts
On May 21 2005 12:04 BloodBath wrote: All the races are balanced, you just dont know how to play the map correctly. P greater than Z, LOL? if anything its protoss on defense mode, and its very hard to scout which makes you have to tech based upon the units you see him with. if he has a shit load of lings he probably 3 hatched and you should get a few canons and storm tech maybe +1 wep and Legs fast. I say maybe because he could also go mutas, lurkers instead of mass hydra/ling then you will need that extra gas to get the appropriate tech counter before he expands and then its all over. [b]I don't know about you but I don't have a problem scouting on BB. From your replies I think your trolling, and I won't answer you again so consider this my last post in this thread. | ||
|
BloodBath
United States409 Posts
| ||
|
BloodBath
United States409 Posts
| ||
|
ihatett
United States2289 Posts
In fact, it is one of the most imbalanced maps. The only way it's balanced is the same way every imbalanced map is "balanced" at the chobo level: if you improve you can beat a worse player of the race that the map has sex with. That doesn't make the map fair, though. | ||
|
8882
2718 Posts
I didn't replay for so long in this thread, because I wanted to write a long kickass post. After more playing, my strategies develpoded and style changed. Still I have one problem - lack of good opponents. I visited op bloodbath- few times, but it was always empty. That's why Ive started playing 2:2 (with my friend we only lost 2 games for like 40 tries, once to a nice strategy and second time some faggot drophacked me, I dont remember any other loss  , still it was mostly vs public players who suck :/).There should be a blood bath league/tournament !blood bath is a fantastic map most matchups are very fun to play zvz is great, because it's even harder and TvT is so strange that it is cool. I'd like to discuss TvT with you later, because I just lack good opponents and made my "standard BO" t has slight advantage over zerg, but zerg needs GOOD BUILDING PLACEMENT and timing. playing zvt is very hard, you need to be killing terrans units all the time. I will upload a replay of the way I play zvt (unfortunately the terran could be better, I lack good opponents). generally zerg has to get a sunken to stop terrans attack without medics + perhaps more sunkens when terran will be getting medics. it is essential to stop terran from moving his units behind the minerals (I defeat most weak players this way...) as for pvz toss is weak early game, but can survive with good timing and micro. my 5pool->fast hydra->fast speed upgrade BO can be stopped with zeal-cannon. midgame toss usually can come out and secure middle. however there is one thing toss should remember - UPGRADES. if zerg decides to go cracklings toss desperately needs them (storm is nice too). I lost a game today, because I expanded too fast and neglected the upgrades. PvT I'm still not sure about this matchup. Mostly because I can't get good opponents. My friend belives that 2gate+cannon rush is unstoppable, but terran can make a wall at choke with barracks+marines. Terran has to go 2barracks. Fast tech to factory is impossible, because toss will make 2gate goons and win. On May 19 2005 10:14 BloodBath wrote: When you scout Vs Random or Zerg always, always scout diagnol. you will either [a] run into his lord and see where it came from see his base or [c] see his lord enter your base [d] see nothing at all and he sucks, maphacks, or isn't zerg. When you are zerg you only scout with overlord. So your pool (7,8,9?) is fast. Scouting with a drone is usless, because you can just see that he is 4pooling and waste the economy. Knowing that he will attack is usless anyway. You can scout after starting the pool, in order to make a sunken. With terran you usually bunker vs random, unless you want to make the magic choke wall vs random toss (then you need to scout with 5th scv, knowing the luck) with toss scouting is usless too - you need your 9/10gates to be able to pop up a zealot and another one as soon as possible, so ALL probes are needed. You either stop the early pool, or just have a semi good defensive start vs any race (1gate vs terran is suicide). On May 19 2005 10:36 MVP[eV] wrote: T > All on Bloodbath. Once you get tanks (asuming you are a decent player) its virtually impossible to lose vs toss or zerg. tanks are late. zerg has a chance - he has to fight for the center with speedlings lurkers and make you lose scans, then your (early) vessel is less useful, still it is very very hard. toss has a bigger chance. by the time you have tanks toss usually has storm + DT (and probably starts the expansion). On May 19 2005 11:05 MVP[eV] wrote: On May 19 2005 10:43 BloodBath wrote: you are wrong for many reasons. What are you going to do 1 base carrier a terran on BB? Explain how toss can win vs a setup terran on BB. secure center expand go either carrier or mad mass zealot+goon+ht/dt On May 19 2005 11:49 MVP[eV] wrote: Or the terran can just slow push the amazingly massive ...10 feet... across the battlefield. The only thing that can threaten you is DTs and once you scan them they die instantly by vultures. Even if you expo, the terran can just park his ass in the middle and eliminate any expo attempts with a small force since you cannot reinforce if he has middle. You need more expos than terran to win a standard PvT and on BB thats not happening. scans are not unlimited. he has 4 scans. he won't have vultures, because he will either have LATE vulture, or he went metal from start so he should time long time ago. if he goes late vulture you sacrifice some of your army and you have 1 expo anyway.. You may delay their push and hold them off for awhile, but you will eventually be stripped of minerals and have zero chance to expo. You dont NEED to go m&m on BB. M&M costs more than vultures anyway. 1 bunker behind rax, next to CC is good enough defense until you can get a seige tank. Once you're setup as terran its over. I wonder how do you survive without mnms? On May 19 2005 14:33 BloodBath wrote: Usually I do an inner expo or a far mine once my probes get to like 17 I start to rally them on the side minerals to mine more. Always pumping probes and mining the sides with the overflow probes. Once I have the map control enough to expo I can transfer them. You have to earn your territory on bloodbath. note that the geysers are 10k not 5k and the side minerals are 3k not 1.5k . so its like 2 bases in 1 on the long run. hmm could you elaborate about the inner expo thing? I often cut off my probe production (which is a problem PvZ) On May 20 2005 06:47 MVP[eV] wrote: What stops me from taking 6 of my first 10 scvs and owning all your probes/drones? Its so fucking easy for terran to win on BB its pathetic. I can march 4-6 scvs over there own some probes, retreat them, repair them and do it again over and over if I wanted since the bases are so close. you don't know what you are talking about. probes have shields which regenerate FAST. zerg units regenrate slower, still zerg will have at least 2drones more at the time you find him (unless you maphack/are lucky and find him fast). still he will have fast lings and you will have 1-2marines without bunker. maybe you win vs newbs without micro... and if you leave an scv to mine, then you bring even less\ On May 20 2005 11:42 MVP[eV] wrote: On May 20 2005 10:08 BloodBath wrote: by the time your SCV get to my base I will have 1 more probe than you have SCVs plus all that extra money from my 4-6 probes mining, keep on sending your SCVs over I will win slowly. Plus if you send your SCV over that early I may just leave the game before 2 minutes is up DRAW GAME. Its useless to argue with you. You are to stubborn to admit you are wrong. 4 scvs > 5 probes bud, plus you lose mining time trying to fend the scvs off while I have a few at home collecting without distraction. Soon as 1 scv is in danger, pull back and repair with the other scvs and repeat. yup, definitely you don;t know what you are talking about. probes regenerate. and I dont think you have boxer like micro, or even micro better than mine. I think you are a theorycrafter. On May 20 2005 12:11 labcoated wrote: [1] 5 - Barracks to bunker+scv rush (not a recommended strat but it works with correct micro) i doubt this is the best build to try to pull off rine/scv cheese. severely. i've beaten this off with a 6 pool plenty of times. can't remember what else (toss, terran, or a 9pool). kinda interested in how those would play out, actually. i think when someone gives up their economy like this you can almost always micro decently and end up with an even game or better. if not, you were taking too great of a risk. [2] 8 - Barracks 9 - Depot 10 - Bunk (near CC and covers minerals and or gas) this is the "safe" build against any pool. although it's not really important to say when to build the bunker. you build it when the rax is done. you really can scout while the rax is building to decide if you need to bunk or not. [3] 9 - Barracks (solid Build) 10 - Depot 10 - Barracks BSB, same thing as above really in most micro cases. if you scout right, the bunker is okay except maybe against a 4 pool or a 5 pool which is fair micro anyways. 6 pool won't stop the bunk. [4] 9 Depot (wall for 11@ bridge) 10 - Barracks 11 - Depot ( replace with academy for zergling block, but too slow to stop even a 9 pool rush) so what are you supposed to use this against? toss, i'm assuming? why didn't you even say what these builds are supposed to be for? I mostly agree with you. [1] 5 - Pool (never works against good players. 4 pool sucks too) build 2 drones 6/9 you should have exactly 150 and 3 larva when pool finishes. okay, why is this on the list then? 4 pool is faster than 5, and 6 pool is better than 5 too. you can go 6 pool, drone, lord, send out a drone scout when you get 100 minerals (after lord). i also suggest lord scouting diagnally to throw them off, see where early scouting comes from, etc. [/quote] I think the best early pool is 7pool->overlord->fake extractor->drone you have 2larvas fast (or even 3) which is good zvz/zvp early pool sucks vs terran this build is wrong. if you 9 pool 9 gas you should 8 lord. everybody knows that. 9 pool seems to be the best economy you can get while still being okay to a 4 pool (or whatever), and speed is important eh. jesus how is this on your list? what exactly is this safe against? why not 12 hatch while you're at it? i'm not doubting you here but i think this is too vague. i want to know your reasoning behind this specific build. is this to beat a 9 pool, i'm assuming? how about a 9/10 gate? what about a 9 rax? those should be expected on BB, so i can only assume that this build is supposed to beat those. i don't know personally. I agree again. yup, toss has to go 9gate. or the strange 8forge BO. 10/12 will have BIG problems, zerg will meet 1 zealot and can often destroy the pylon. so when do you use this build? wouldn't you rather get your 2nd gate up? why the battery? (i know this was already said) this BO is strange, I agree with labcoated a good zerg will max out on 17/17 and run in with speedlings. toss or terran. anyone can respond to this build just fine. it only is even against something shitty like a 4 pool. so why is this on your list if you say it sucks? (just to reiterate my point) ... that's false. some of these builds are equally "bullshit that should never work" and some builds you excluded are on equal footing with the better ones you listed here. i'm sure you're a good bloodbath player but i don't think all of your details are really perfect. you can be a winning player without having the perfect details so don't take it personally. labcoated is right. BOs are not limited. On May 20 2005 16:18 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Also; mines rape so hard early game because often toss has no obs because he went templar archives. (Because you absolutly need legs and reaver is so far away and you need that MM counter so bad, plus that storm is nice either way because of the small middle and DT's are good harass.) toss needs, legs, HT, reaver and obs to win? wtf... impossible. One thing to try if the T are camping middle. Send in one or two speed zeals to draw some inital mines. They will hopefully make it almost into the middle and detonate those mines. Then send in a DT and pray to god that T doesn't notice it and can scan before it get's there. Head for the largest group of units (I prefer the vults) and if your lucky one of the mines that will be everywhere blows shit up. It's a cramped place so really perfect mine placement is hard. terran CANT have mass vults early. later you just sacrifice your army and stop the push-retreat. On May 20 2005 16:20 camooT wrote: On May 20 2005 13:53 MVP[eV] wrote: Im at work bud, its not even 5pm eastern yet. Also im not home to play videogames on friday nights, maybe ill be on over the weekend during the day. MVP fighting!!!!1 he will always dodge.. On May 21 2005 21:16 ihatett wrote: Blood bath is not balanced still it is not horribly imbalanced. and even if it is, playing it is fun. The only way it's balanced is the same way every imbalanced map is "balanced" at the chobo level: if you improve you can beat a worse player of the race that the map has sex with. That doesn't make the map fair, though. this applies to every map. [b] I would gladly play vs good opponents, because well I mostly play pubs who suck. Msg me if you would like to play | ||
|
8882
2718 Posts
I know the terran wasnt the best opponent, still I liked the game you can criticise my low apm thanks http://s34.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=361EZQY5HASY71Y2R5IHB0ZN4W I could lose all the time. I know he could have made few more scvs. My gameplay was far from perfect too. I think many people will criticise my strats, but they don't have any balls to show their replays. Actually if you watch the replay you will know the way I play, so you have a huge advantage when challening me. But I don't care. I like playing vs good opponents. another thing How do you TvT? I have my 'secret' bo and wouldn't like to reveal it. | ||
|
ihatett
United States2289 Posts
this applies to every map. It applies to every map -- balanced and imbalanced -- but on the imbalanced ones it is harder playing as one of the screwed over races. | ||
|
8882
2718 Posts
On May 22 2005 11:10 ihatett wrote: It applies to every map -- balanced and imbalanced -- but on the imbalanced ones it is harder playing as one of the screwed over races. still, blood bath is fun I forgot to add that I play random on blood bath, which is a bit anti cheese. (for example tvp) | ||
|
Invincible-SCV
United States93 Posts
| ||
|
BloodBath
United States409 Posts
| ||
|
BloodBath
United States409 Posts
On May 22 2005 12:07 Invincible-SCV wrote: T owns all with 9 scv rush  I dont like your bullshit. | ||
|
labcoated
Canada392 Posts
| ||
|
MVP[eV]
United States270 Posts
1. You're the one theorycrafting by explaining how probe shields regen fast bla bla bla. SCVs are stronger than probes. Which means you need more probes than the terran in a worker vs worker fight. The only other way is to run around for awhile until your shields regen which in return wastes HUGE mining time. I can harass some probes, pull out...attack pylon, repeat all while I have a few scvs at home mining. If you attack me head on 6 probes vs 6 scvs you will get raped. If you pull off more than 6 you lose even more mining time. 2. Go download some micro maps (human vs human) and challange me if you want to make statements about how much better you're at micro than me. What you think of me means nothing. K? 3. Only way Z or P can beat T on BB is some kind of rush. Or that the Z or P is alot better than the T player. Thanks have a nice day. EDIT: 8882 just noticed in your garbage you said I dodge (LOL?)because I was at work. Tell you what. Call up the owner of my company and explain to him that I need Broodwar on my pc so I can own some kids on a internet forum. Then explain to my real life friends I cant go out with them cause I have to sit home on a friday night to play a computer game. | ||
|
Konni
Germany3044 Posts
| ||
|
8882
2718 Posts
On May 23 2005 09:11 MVP[eV] wrote: 8882 just because you make all of your responses 2 paragraphs long doesn't mean you understand the game better. lol, where did I claim that? I prefer to make one big post, then 20 like bloodbath.. 1. You're the one theorycrafting by explaining how probe shields regen fast bla bla bla. SCVs are stronger than probes. Which means you need more probes than the terran in a worker vs worker fight. The only other way is to run around for awhile until your shields regen which in return wastes HUGE mining time. yup, with his 1 scv he will mine a lot, since 2hp of shield regenerates in around 1 second. So I will run around for 10 seconds. I can harass some probes, pull out...attack pylon, repeat all while I have a few scvs at home mining. If you attack me head on 6 probes vs 6 scvs you will get raped. If you pull off more than 6 you lose even more mining time. if you attack me by the time I have pylon and leave some scvs at home (few=3+?) I will have like 9-10 probes vs your pityful 6scvs. 2. Go download some micro maps (human vs human) and challange me if you want to make statements about how much better you're at micro than me. What you think of me means nothing. K? I have like 500 microcontrol maps. And I can chellenge you. Your scvs vs my probes. And Im not saying I have better micro than you. Im saying that your way of thinking is flawed. You think that you can attack with less scvs(6?), at the time I have a pylon (so I have 9-10?) and win... 3. Only way Z or P can beat T on BB is some kind of rush. Or that the Z or P is alot better than the T player. Thanks have a nice day. lol EDIT: 8882 just noticed in your garbage you said I dodge (LOL?)because I was at work. Tell you what. Call up the owner of my company and explain to him that I need Broodwar on my pc so I can own some kids on a internet forum. Then explain to my real life friends I cant go out with them cause I have to sit home on a friday night to play a computer game. yea, you have real life etc - a standard way of dodging you will never play any of us, because well you work during the weekdays and meet your real life friends at the weakends etc and when you lose you will say that your lilttle brother played for you... pathetic you are the one challenging everyone (you challenged me too), so don't make stupid excuses. and it's not that a challenge is some sort of test of thinking (still the newb ownage will be cool), because pen is better than a sword, but you just have some strange theories, that during the time I wait for my shields to regenerate - your single scv will mine much. or maybe you claim, that your other scvs will be mining (maybe in my base or something?)... and if your "scv rush" is so good, please post me some replays if you cant play. I mean I have won like 3 2v2 games recently vs people double scv/drone rushing me or my ally... (still 2v2 is different) | ||
|
MVP[eV]
United States270 Posts
| ||
|
8882
2718 Posts
I dont play on west server, but mostly europe server. I probably wont be on today, unless we set the time. You can play me on thursday, friday and saturday. I will probably be free then. Im pretty sure I can defeat you zvp 10:0 if I choose the map. You play anything besides starcraft? I bet I can own you if we play domino!!! That's a good excuse, if I lose on blood bath. That's also your way of debating. I like your attitude, it's full of hidden hatered ("you play anything besides BB?")  | ||
|
MVP[eV]
United States270 Posts
On May 23 2005 11:10 8882 wrote: lol, you are the one challenging, but when someone actually agrees to play vs you, you say that you have work. it's a good way of dodging, you will never play anyone and most people will forget about the challenge, but (in short-term) some people will think that you actually might me good. I dont play on west server, but mostly europe server. I probably wont be on today, unless we set the time. You can play me on thursday, friday and saturday. I will probably be free then. Im pretty sure I can defeat you zvp 10:0 if I choose the map. You play anything besides starcraft? I bet I can own you if we play domino!!! That's a good excuse, if I lose on blood bath. That's also your way of debating. I like your attitude, it's full of hidden hatered ("you play anything besides BB?") Only person who challanged me was Bloodbath during the day when I work. I offered to play him over the weekend but he said he couldnt. Where's the "dodge" in that? Your comparison to Dominos and BB has no logic. Bloodbath is a map, dominos is a completely different game. Ok, list 3 TLT maps and we will play a BO3 PvZ. What time will you be available Saturday. I'm sure you will 3-0 me since you have no doubt you can 10-0 me without even seeing me play once. | ||
|
Resse
307 Posts
On May 19 2005 14:30 BloodBath wrote: you are wrong i will use 1 rax and scv and have a tank up in time with a compact base and repair. I was away all weekend. Whats your account name and when can you be on.. I'll give you rape  | ||
| ||
