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EnderW
United States170 Posts
On June 03 2010 10:01 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: Oh oh thanks a lot now tell me how to use a scourge in sc2 haha way to feed the troll! For real though that kid is confused. I think your suggestion is decent, though I don't know how it would actually play out if implemented. Obviously something needs to be done about this situation, and I hope blizzard is playing w/ these kinds of ideas to see what happens. | ||
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Zozo
Brazil2579 Posts
On June 03 2010 10:01 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: Oh oh thanks a lot now tell me how to use a scourge in sc2 So you agree that if you had the tool, the vulnerability (siege/unsiege time in my post) to keep those numbers down, it would be a fair MU? | ||
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koppik
United States676 Posts
Really, if Sheth turtled, QXC couldn't attack Sheth either. That would have been a worse scenario, though. | ||
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EnderW
United States170 Posts
On June 03 2010 10:03 iG.CatZ wrote: I DO DECLARE, hopefully you can post the interviews where we interviewed some of the best zergs outside of korea, and some of the better terrans even agree with us. Added to that impressive list that was interviewed during the KOTH event that we hosted ( Machine, Sheth, Dimaga, MoMaN and a few more including my humble opinion) + the fact that Artosis & IdrA agree as well... pretty much the Zerg Elite that are able to agree with us (as they all speak english) are all having the same problems, some people might think that there are ways to beat late mech, and yeah you can... but you have to outplay your opponent HEAVILY, MoMaN vs Lzgamer is a great example of everything going right for zerg and playing SUPER smart and still losing... its a simple fix and it shouldn't break any other matchups for Terran, I was discussing this with gretorp as well early and he agrees with this and even thinks this would make the TvT matchup a lot more fun, as right now marauders are barely viable TvT cause tanks crush everything. Quoted for EPIC TRUTHINESS! | ||
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ROOTdrewbie
Canada1392 Posts
On June 03 2010 10:04 Doso wrote: It's not broken, no need to remove something from the AI just to make Zerg players feel better. I remember at the beginning of the beta everyone was like OMFG Tanks suck, now they have 10 hp more and everyone is like OMFG imba. PLEASE WATCH THE REPLAYS BEFORE YOU RESPOND | ||
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EnderW
United States170 Posts
In this case, their names rhyme, Doso and Zozo, so of course that makes it twice as silly | ||
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
I'm thinking possibly, better map designs, thors cheaper and weaker and no splash (golaith anyone), and a change in that new infestor spell to something more dark swarmy. weakening tanks will make them really bad tvp. Perhaps they could be cheaper and weaker too so the 200/200 army isn't quit so strong. It's definitely not impossible but it's definitely not 50/50 fair. | ||
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On June 03 2010 10:06 koppik wrote: If protoss builds 1000 cannons and maxes carriers, they CANNOT BE BEAT as well. Really, if Sheth turtled, QXC couldn't attack Sheth either. That would have been a worse scenario, though. lol what? BW carriers or SC2 carriers? cause SC2 carriers lose to basically everything... that and im pretty sure 400 scourge beat 33 carriers if you're talking BW | ||
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Orange Goblin
218 Posts
a change in that new infestor spell to something more dark swarmy. Yes. Anything to get Frenzy out of the game. | ||
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Mack
United States25 Posts
Sensor towers + a mass of fast range 9 vikings totally eliminated any chance of nydus / drop harass. And, in a big glob in the middle were the range 13 sieged tanks to take care of the ground while range 10 thors were able to defend air if vikings needed to go deal with any failed attempts at harassment. Do these range advantages seem over-the-top to anyone else? I mean, I don't want to base the whole match-up on this one game, as Sheth really didn't seem too motivated to give 100% on breaking through, but QXC really could have been on the toilet for half of the game and still been in great shape when he got back. | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
On June 03 2010 10:13 Mack wrote: 4 supply tanks anyone? If I recall the worst part about the match played on LT was that QXC had at least 10 tanks just lounging in bases Sheth could never even get to. Sensor towers + a mass of fast range 9 vikings totally eliminated any chance of nydus / drop harass. And, in a big glob in the middle were the range 13 sieged tanks to take care of the ground while range 10 thors were able to defend air if vikings needed to go deal with any failed attempts at harassment. Do these range advantages seem over-the-top to anyone else? I mean, I don't want to base the whole match-up on this one game, as Sheth really didn't seem too motivated to give 100% on breaking through, but QXC really could have been on the toilet for half of the game and still been in great shape when he got back. That was the steppes game actually but yeah you can't drop when there are sensor towers up because vikings will get there to deny it Sheth tried it on Steppes. | ||
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
Interview whoever you want, it does not change the fact Zerg's are playing bad late-game many times versus T mech, and refusing to build nydus canals STILL. In case you Zerg players forgot, Terran players a few patches ago automatically lost versus Zerg if the game went past 10 minutes or so, because of larva accumulation and 1 supply roaches always meant -> suicide army into Terran army, remax army in 2 seconds, and go again while T is only just barely securing their second live expansion. What most Zergs seem to be proposing now is for ZvT to return to autowin late game, where it was impossible to play a macro style TvZ because you knew that if you did, you would lose to larva inject. This thread is just going to promote more whining and "NERF MECH" instead of actually looking for gameplay + strategic solutions. Idra and Artosis are good Zergs but they themselves are not beyond the "it's imba" as well. I remember them complaining severely about the roach nerf, yet they were entirely 100% elation pre-roach nerf where ZvT was autowin late game. How strange! Instead of making threads trying to fear monger the "omg it's imba, nerf it blizzard," start proposing late game styles and things to do in the game, such as more nydus usage. Obviously Blizzard knows what they are doing and mech is not going to be nerfed, but here is something they can do: change the map pool!! I agree that mech vs Zerg is very strong on maps like steps of war and incineration zone. Of course, ZvT is STILL do-able there with broodlord/corruptor and everything, but mech is really ez mode on those two maps in particular due to the short distances. Probably mech is easiest to execute on steppes because of no backdoor. But do you see any good Zergs massing nydus late game after they are maxed? That is the next step of lategame ZvT, yet Zergs still refuse to do it. And in particular in these games, Sheth had chances. He played great on steppes of war with a HUGE HUGE LEAD, and then suicided over 10k/10k over and over into QXC. He could have thought to build literally 5-10 nydus's and held his ground more. Sheth also was about to do a drop first game that would have crippled or done a bit of damage and dragged QXC's army back to his main, but Sheth hesitated a moment and it cost him the drop. There is still more to be explored ZvT is all i'm saying. If there's anything you should be looking at for a legitmate nerf, it should not be the actual units right now, perhaps sensor towers are actually too powerful and their radius of vision should be slightly reduced  | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On June 03 2010 10:13 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: That was the steppes game actually but yeah you can't drop when there are sensor towers up because vikings will get there to deny it Sheth tried it on Steppes. He could have dropped. He hesitated and was indecisive. It cost him. And this bullshit of people saying "there's a sensor tower there, I'm not gonna make an effort" is just a very bad mentality to have. | ||
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Ruthless
United States492 Posts
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Shizuru~
Malaysia1676 Posts
also, the way Cool dealt with Maka's mech style is pretty effective as well on having overlord dropping baneling bombs on top of the terran army. | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
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shlomo
258 Posts
so 1000/1000 for 10 worms, hoping 1 will get through to spit out units one at a time? rofl. A likely story bro. | ||
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EnderW
United States170 Posts
On June 03 2010 10:21 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: @avilo Do the math on nydus worms please, to build multiple nydus worms at the same time you need ANOTHER nydus network. Each network is 200/200 each worm is 100/100 so each worm in a multiple nydus worm strategy is 300/300 to make 5-10 worms at the same time you're talking 1500/1500 or 3000/3000 you have to be kidding me. Indeed, all these people crying "USE NYDUS WORMS" have obviously not played both sides of this matchup. It's really really sad how many people use such terrible logic to support their points. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On June 03 2010 10:04 Doso wrote: It's not broken, no need to remove something from the AI just to make Zerg players feel better. I remember at the beginning of the beta everyone was like OMFG Tanks suck, now they have 10 hp more and everyone is like OMFG imba. *face palm* Watch a few games, play as zerg. Tanks shouldn't get a massive nerf, but somethings need to change in tvz games. | ||
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