EPTHow to fix TvZ Mech - Page 44
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CoMMoDuS
Germany507 Posts
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ESV TV
United States109 Posts
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
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OffResonance
Germany10 Posts
On June 10 2010 00:31 CoMMoDuS wrote: did jinro have any motivation to win in that game vs TLO? cause i wouldnt try too hard to win a game which would only increase the imba discussion about my own race. on the other hand is TLO who has played terran quite alot recently and probably has an interest in showing that you cant autowin with terran. So ... what you are basically predicting is that there is some kind of conspiracy going on. That they are broadcasting this game to pretend that TvZ is fine. Sry such thoughts really carry things to far. Of course it was just a match between teammates, surely no tournament conditions. But really i do not get why people keep crying while a) there was not sooo much time to test the tank nerf before the beta went down b) the beta IS down atm c) if people are not able to adept to certain tactics during a short and rapidly changing beta metagame that imho does not mean it has to be overpowered | ||
Liquid`TLO
Germany767 Posts
did jinro have any motivation to win in that game vs TLO? cause i wouldnt try too hard to win a game which would only increase the imba discussion about my own race. on the other hand is TLO who has played terran quite alot recently and probably has an interest in showing that you cant autowin with terran. to determine if terran has indeed a slight advantage over zerg i would rather check some games which were played in late tournament stages where it really mattered to win. it might not be the best example but i was rather surprised how drafter could handle dimaga in the last zotac semi final. We did not play this to show it on the daily it was a practice game for both us and I didnt even know sean was planning to have me on the show then. Of course you can argue that it was not a competitive game. But I know Jinro he doesnt like losing, so I am sure he did not play on purpose to make his race look weaker than it is. What a silly thought. | ||
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CoMMoDuS
Germany507 Posts
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Trok67
France384 Posts
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space_yes
United States548 Posts
On June 10 2010 02:45 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: Tanks got nerfed enough so that beating mech is still diffcult but it's much more doable now, can a mod please kill this thread? Cuz its people arguing about a point that was only valid 2 patches ago. /agreed Given the short duration of play time from the most recent patch "How to fix tvz mech" isn't accurate or warranted. Maybe when the beta goes back up and its newly demonstrated zerg players are unable to come up with strategies to beat nerfed tanks and that mech tvz needs fixing we can then start a new thread that doesn't have 40+ pages of old discussion. Mods please close. | ||
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On June 10 2010 06:02 wolfe wrote: well since this is semi-related to mech. What would happen if they removed the HSM from Ravens and replaced it with spider mines to give mech some more survivability while changing up tank's smart targeting? Spider mines for "just energy" are too IMBA, because you could have an unlimited amount of them ... unless you make the mines have limited duration, but then they would not serve their purpose and wouldnt really be spider mines. The Raven already has some "limited duration damage dealing" in the turret, so it would be doubling that. | ||
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
On June 10 2010 06:08 Rabiator wrote: Spider mines for "just energy" are too IMBA, because you could have an unlimited amount of them ... unless you make the mines have limited duration, but then they would not serve their purpose and wouldnt really be spider mines. The Raven already has some "limited duration damage dealing" in the turret, so it would be doubling that. What about making it much more similar to SC1 style in that a single raven can only deploy... 3 or maybe 6 mines total rather than being energy based. Frankly maybe I'm just a noob but I don't use HSM very much in play and even then only can pop a few off per Raven. Edit: You would also reduce a Raven's total energy cap a bit I guess with the removal of a significant energy cost spell. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On June 10 2010 06:10 wolfe wrote: Edit: You would also reduce a Raven's total energy cap a bit I guess with the removal of a significant energy cost spell. I seriously doubt they will do that, since they screwed up the Thor by making the 250mm cannon cost 150 energy now, so it very very rarely gets used now and the energy on the Thor is just an easy target for Feedback from a High Templar. Reducing the energy maximum is a tool too, but Blizzard rather screws with the cost. | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
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refraxion
Canada88 Posts
On June 10 2010 02:45 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: Tanks got nerfed enough so that beating mech is still diffcult but it's much more doable now, can a mod please kill this thread? Cuz its people arguing about a point that was only valid 2 patches ago. Thank you! | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
Zerg Juggernaut Description: These gargantuan beasts are morphed by the fusion of two of the most formidable units in the Zerg arsenal, Hydralisks. The Hydralisks’ sensitive, electro-charged skins beneath their large, helmet-like exoskeletal heads make it easy for these slothien to merge their near-identical DNA. Though the process isn’t completed quickly, the end result is so demonic, it’s difficult not to deploy onto the battlefield. Once morphed, the Juggernaut looks like you would imagine: like that from which it came. It has a large, armor-plated exoskeletal head. But, since its ribonucleic fusion, there are more protective guards, tentacles and teeth surrounding its slippery surface. The Juggernaut has a powerful jaw to hurl out multiple needle spines at a high rate of speed, damaging not only the primary target, but nearby targets as well. The Juggernaut also has, thanks to the nucleic fusion of two slothien hydralisk beasts, an extremely large and muscular underhalf that slithers and whips, able to move its large upper body with ease. Additionally, the Juggernaut has four arms (from the hydralisk’s two), giving it the unique ability to heave and dig into the hard soil of the earth and sprint short distances. This, above all else, makes this unit a dreadful opponent for any warrior, valiant or otherwise, to face on the battlefield. The fusion of the hydralisks is an evolutionary response to the armor piercing rounds of the Terrans and the increasingly-powerful psi blades and energy-intense technologies of the Protoss. The Juggernaut’s skin has adapted to the advanced weaponry of its enemies, and answers with a vastly more durable outer-skin. ‘Morph Juggernaut’ ability is researchable at the Hydralisk den for 100/100. Takes 60 seconds to complete. Cost – Nucleic Fusion Morph Time: 30 (Hydralisks: 2) H/P - 175 Spray Needle Spines Damage (ground) (splash) – 5 (+2 to Armored) (Attacks: 5) (Attack Speed: Normal) Range - 7 Abilities – Sprint: Allows the Juggernaut to move at a high rate of speed for 3 seconds. Cool down: 20 Armor Type – Biological - Psionic Movement – Normal ![[image loading]](http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5787/zergjuggernaut.jpg) | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
The damage nerf was also interesting, because it has almost no effect on TvZ. It affects TvP heavily, and TvT somewhat, but definitely much less TvZ. Almost all of the units will still die to the same number of tank shots, and if you go thinking "oh roaches with lvl 3 armor won't die anymore", there is still splash damage, so it's pretty much the same, just slightly weaker in overall splash damage. As Sun Tzu would say, attack where your enemy is weak and you are strong. Meaning you should never ever attack where your enemy wants you to. And even in Brood War, Tanks could completely obliterate a 200/200 army, this is not new. I'm reminded of the EPIC epic game of FireBatHero vs Savior on Lost Temple, (FBH 1 o' clock, Savior 7 o'clock) where FireBatHero has his main overrun with ultras, and he relocates his entire base to the opposite side of the map and takes the 8 o clock main, floats an EBay over the ramp and blocks it (more imba than sc2 mech ever could be, since you can't manually target the units there is no way to get past this), and then Savior's play stagnated horribly and he just suicided the whole map worth of forces at FBH head on, quite pointlessly, and kept doing bad plays until he ran out of resources and lost. Again, they're called TANKS. Attacking head on is supposed to be suicide. | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
then it could get up in the tanks face and be too close to be sieged. kind of like a chargelot tbh  | ||
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SpicyCrab
402 Posts
Judging from many of the comments in this thread this must be inaccurate. Can someone who is good please explain? | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
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