EPTSo the categories for "I don't care about mafia war and so I will be inactive" is much higher than in other mafia games.
TL Mafia XXVI - Page 28
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
So the categories for "I don't care about mafia war and so I will be inactive" is much higher than in other mafia games. | ||
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Zyrre
Sweden291 Posts
The two people I suspect most so far are zeks and DCLXVI. DCLXVI has several possible clues linked to him that to me seem within the reasonable span of "far-fetchednes" zeks might have been an early run at mayor from the mafia, and quickly responded with a defensive post pointing clues at someone else. However, zeks did post clues he thought pointed towards DCLXVI. So either both are town, or only one of them is mafia. Another thing to consider is that when we do get mafia kills, the EARLY suspicions will basically always be confirmed townies. Later suspicions could just as well be mafias trying to get credit as townies by jumping on the bandwagon. | ||
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 06 2010 02:20 LunarDestiny wrote: stuff about TL posts vs mafia posts + Show Spoiler + It is really hard to analyze people who haven't posted a lot. They maybe be mafia so they are less inactive or they just don't care much about the game. A huge difference between this and other mafia games is there are more new players and less veteran players. So the categories for "I don't care about mafia war and so I would be active" is much higher than in other mafia games. I use a somewhat weak checking method to see if they are really inactive or a mafia who is inactive because they don't want to draw attention. My method is to look at how many posts they made the last week and compare it to number of post and quality of post they made in this game. If the number of post they made last week hugely out number the number of post they made in this game, then there is a possibility that they are mafia and tries not draw attention. One drawback of this rule is there are people who post a lot (a huge number for the post they made last week) but just don't care about this game. AcrossFiveJuly fits the description of I post a lot but not on this thread. post last week: 33 post in the game: 3 Then there are numerous inactives who just doesn't post on TL at all therefore making them less likely be to mafia. I like the idea you have here. Definitely wouldn't take it as gospel, but it's probably worth as much as any clue we havn't confirmed. Keep digging.  | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On June 06 2010 02:29 Ace wrote: I'm guessing since I'm not playing it would be wrong to give Detectives advice right? correct | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
1)pro town who cares about the game. They can satisfy the requirement easily. 2)mafia who cares about the game. Also should have no problem satisfying the requirement. 3)mafia who does not care about the game. They may force themselves to meet the requirement because others will be pressuring them and mafia tends to care more about the game than pro town who gets a shiity role (vanilla townie). 4)Then there is the pro town who does not care about the game. They won't bother catching up with the thread and won't bother to meet the requirement of in depth analysis. (jiabung who we lynches falls in this category.) | ||
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 06 2010 02:24 Zyrre wrote: Another thing to consider is that when we do get mafia kills, the EARLY suspicions will basically always be confirmed townies. Later suspicions could just as well be mafias trying to get credit as townies by jumping on the bandwagon. I would be wary of this. I think it really depends more on the situation in which they are posting rather than whether it was an early game suspicion vs a late game suspicion. Mafia by their very nature will have to tend to cast doubt more on townies than on their own in order to sway public opinion, but it doesn't require that it must happen earlier vs later in the game. It is this sort of reasoning that led me to point DTA to jiabung rather than TyranoS, for example. The suspicion that was cast out in the early game costed those players nothing, so if they were mafia they could help deflect suspicion towards Tyranos rather than jiabung. It's really only a small margin of improved odds, though. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Think about who will follow this requirement. | ||
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 06 2010 02:29 Ace wrote: I'm guessing since I'm not playing it would be wrong to give Detectives advice right? Hey detectives, do your homework. Go read games where Ace was a detective. | ||
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 06 2010 02:32 LunarDestiny wrote: I don't think the idea of analyze requirement per 24 hours is good idea. They about who will follow this requirement. 1)pro town who cares about the game. They can satisfy the requirement easily. 2)mafia who cares about the game. Also should have no problem satisfying the requirement. 3)mafia who does not care about the game. They may force themselves to meet the requirement because others will be pressuring them and mafia tends to care more about the game than pro town who gets a shiity role (vanilla townie). 4)Then there is the pro town who does not care about the game. They won't bother catching up with the thread and won't bother to meet the requirement of in depth analysis. (jiabung who we lynches falls in this category.) First let me clarify for you that it's not per 24 hours, it's per day. (this was clear since there was even discussion about this among several of us already) You need to think the policy through to its logical conclusion. Suppose for the sake of argument we allow the people in class 4 to continue playing. Suppose instead in the early game we choose to lynch people because they appear to be the most suspicious - even though we don't have that much info on them. In these sorts of situations, especially among players who are less experienced, people who talk more bring more heat on themselves - whether through perhaps errors or flaws in logic (I think a few people I came after on day 1 can attest to this) or because they're supposedly too hotheaded (I don't know anyone who lands in this category this game, but hey, it could happen). The mafia would have a very simple strategy to win: shut up. Townies have lost games because they have gone rabid on each other (especially so in the mid game) because the mafia just fall silent or just parrot others' thoughts and no one noticed. We cannot allow this to pass. If people are townie and inactive because they don't care about the game, they suck. They're ruining the game for the rest of us. It's actually far worse for the game if a mafia is inactive because mafia losing 1 imbalances the game FAR more than town losing 1. That's why there's a modkill & ban policy in place for those who are completely inactive. For those who are mostly inactive, they may be trying to skate by to avoid the ban. These people also suck. There's no way to really enforce a fair out of game policy on these people. Because of this we have to account for it in game. Hence the policy. If you care about the game, you'll be active. It really doesn't take that much time to meet the policy requirements I've put up. This is a new player game, so we will have more inactives than a typical game around here might. It's just something we'll have to deal with, but we can't allow mafia the option of the 'shut up' strategy. It's way too easy for them to win like that. | ||
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onihunter
United States515 Posts
Instead, letting new players who are currently pretty inactive individually adopt this policy if they wish to seems better. If the new player has a set goal every day, then he will probably encourage himself to post more and be more aware of his own activity level. I think YellowInk's idea should be a guideline, not a hard rule. I'll post some thoughts on the actual game when stuff occurs to me. | ||
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sputnik.theory
Poland449 Posts
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 06 2010 03:10 sputnik.theory wrote: I've noticed that a quite a few players (including me) have been called out for not posting too much on day1 and in our defence, I'd just like to point out that there's only so much that can be said at the start of the game. I'll be posting more as the game develops and there's actually things to talk about. Idk sputnik, I've had an awful lot to say. I believe all of it to be reasonable and worth having said. I think most people would agree that most of the things I say are good and beneficial to the town. If I can come up with this much, anyone should be able to come up with what I requested in my policy. Mafia is a game of thoroughly imperfect information. Worry less about what you're not sure about and talk more about the little bits that you see. | ||
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littlechava
United States7216 Posts
On June 06 2010 02:52 onihunter wrote: I don't think the strict posting policy that YellowInk is a good idea. Yes, getting people more active about this game is a good thing. However, artificially stimulating it like this just doesn't seem very helpful nor good for the spirit of the game. People can easily get by posting vague thoughts on random people, and it just doesn't seem right to me to FORCE people to post. It's a game after all, not a homework assignment. Instead, letting new players who are currently pretty inactive individually adopt this policy if they wish to seems better. If the new player has a set goal every day, then he will probably encourage himself to post more and be more aware of his own activity level. I think YellowInk's idea should be a guideline, not a hard rule. I'll post some thoughts on the actual game when stuff occurs to me. I was under the impression it was definitely a guideline - just one that if you don't follow you'll eventually get lynched if you aren't doing anything (until we find more appropriate people to lynch). I think the rule is a good idea, and it'll push people who have been active and reading but just too intimidated to post much into more activity (a category I feel I fall under). It will, like others have said, separate those who don't care from those who do. Hopefully these "vague thoughts" don't reflect badly on me now On June 06 2010 03:10 sputnik.theory wrote: I've noticed that a quite a few players (including me) have been called out for not posting too much on day1 and in our defence, I'd just like to point out that there's only so much that can be said at the start of the game. I'll be posting more as the game develops and there's actually things to talk about. I agree with this, especialy in the last few pages. Most of the posts haven't been about much other than getting the inactives to post more. That's why the rule is so important for people to start following though - even during the beginning we can still be analyzing peoples thought processes and personalities. | ||
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sputnik.theory
Poland449 Posts
That being said, you've also posted plenty of information that others have found useful and I'm not trying to take away from that. I'm just not really interested in the early stages of a game as much what comes later and I'm trying to play in a way that will help me get to lategame so I can help make sure town wins. Why should I paint a target on my back for mafia by being a hyper active townie so early on? Especially when I don't feel like the insight I could offer at this point in the game would be as authoritative as others who've played this game before? | ||
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sputnik.theory
Poland449 Posts
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pyr0ma5ta
United States458 Posts
On June 05 2010 15:17 DarthThienAn wrote: pyr0ma5ta - looks like... 4 in-game posts, 1 irrelevant, 1 joking about supporting LD if he runs (for an excel sheet LOL), 1 copy-pasting bumatlarge's list of clue-linked ppl and saying he suspects Yellow and zeks due to the clues related to them (this was early on), and 1 saying... DUN DUN DUN: OH SNAP. DID HE JUST --- lol. A really uncalled for and bold accusation. However, this makes me think he is townie, because afaik, he's newbie and a newbie mafia wouldn't go around attracting attention like that by calling someone out straight-up like that. HOWEVER. He's still as inactive as the first two I analyzed. Step up yo game and POST MORE PLZ. He's also posted more in other TL forums recently than in this thread. UNACCEPTABLE. lol. +2 Well hello there. I'm somewhat overwhelmed with this thread, as no mafia game I've ever played had this much posting. That being said, I'm an active reader, even if I'm not an active poster up till this point. I don't see any point in posting just to post when I have nothign to contribute. I posted my opinions/suspicions and reasons. As far as "bold and uncalled for," I thought that posting my suspicion of YI and then declaring that I will not be voting for him was a pretty logical step. On June 06 2010 01:25 YellowInk wrote: To clean out the shadows, so to speak, I'd like to propose a clear policy of anti-inactivity. In these early days before we have any good targets to hang (if for some reason we do get good targets to hang we will of course go after named scum as a priority), I suggest that we target those who are inactive. The large scale purpose of this is not that I actually desire to hang anyone due to inactivity (since unfortunately most of these people are likely to be town - especially so in a game filled with new players), but to impress the importance that we cannot effectively combat the scum if people lurk. Therefore, I propose the following requirements to all posters: You must post your thoughts on at least four different people each day. Give reasoning (this is important). These thoughts must be spaced out such that two of these posts must be at least 12 hours apart. That is to say you can talk about 3 people at one point, then just sometime later in the day you have to give thoughts on another person. This is a bare minimum requirement. I encourage people who really are town to go ahead and post as much of their thoughts as they are willing. It is also important that you post as much original thought as you can. Since this is not something easily judged, I'm not putting it in the above requirements. However the mafia will be forced to conceal their intentions in some way - and one of the easiest ways they could choose to do so is to just parrot the thoughts that others have already expressed. So if you're town, don't do this! You may agree with their thoughts and voice that you do so agree, just don't count it as one of your four thoughts for the day. The consequence for failure to meet this policy will be that you will be eligible to be hung solely on the basis of your inactivity. In this early game, we will often not have great scum targets. If everyone were to talk a lot, we might have some decent reads on folk. Furthermore, we'd have more information in the mid to late game from all of this early talk to figure out who is mafia. Please discuss your thoughts on this policy. This is something the town has to agree upon since people are lynched by majority vote. I think it is clear how this policy will have a long term effect of benefiting town. Oddly, some of us have jobs and/or lives and not infinite hours to post on this thread. You're welcome to demand whatever you want, but I'm going to post if and only if I'm damn well ready to post. That being said, I'll give an opinion or two. People I have a feeling about: (may or may not have anything to do with reality, your mileage may vary) YellowInk - Still somewhat unimpressed with his performance. When I posted, it was early in the day, and I've since softened my position due to his very active posting. I still think he's more likely to be Mafia than not. Awkward because he's in an elected role and is now immune to Role Checks. LunarDestiny - I feel good about him. I like his posting and I'm giving him a pass for now. burnatlarge - I am unsure how I missed this, but doesn't his name jump out for the burning ink clue as well? I hope I'm not the first one to see this. LaXerCannon - His profile is a famous speech from Hamlet, and didn't Hamlet's mother die from poisoning? | ||
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 06 2010 03:35 sputnik.theory wrote: Yink, no offense but half your posts up to now can be summed up as VOTE FOR YINK. That being said, you've also posted plenty of information that others have found useful and I'm not trying to take away from that. I'm just not really interested in the early stages of a game as much what comes later and I'm trying to play in a way that will help me get to lategame so I can help make sure town wins. Why should I paint a target on my back for mafia by being a hyper active townie so early on? Especially when I don't feel like the insight I could offer at this point in the game would be as authoritative as others who've played this game before? Because if you really are a townie, your victory condition isn't to survive to the end, it's to get a townie win. Yes, actives are more likely to get targetted by mafia. You don't need to be hyper active, you just need to be active. Your insight doesn't need to be authoritative, it just needs to be voiced. If you're not posting anything of substance, you're helping the mafia because it creates a cloak under which they can hide. Mafia can do the same and then just point to you (and anyone else who does the same) and we have no way to make a good hanging. | ||
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crate
United States2474 Posts
It only holds any weight if you threaten to lynch inactives and then follow through. However, in doing so, you're costing the town in this game. Mafia can continue to do the bare minimum pretty easily and have much more incentive to do so than town does, so I think that if the town is lucky we'll get one mafioso dead from not posting enough to meet the requirements, tops. We'll have more material on the less-active mafia this way, sure--they'll be posting at least twice a day instead of once, and it'll have some substance--but we won't have the lynches to punish them for it because I will guarantee not every town-aligned player is going to post enough (not in this game, at least. Perhaps in a game where we're pretty sure that everyone will be active), so we'll have to drop the hammer on those townies. If you don't lynch people who don't post enough, then this makes some townies and the mafia post more actively on day 2, then they realize there's no teeth to the threat and they can stop and likely some of them will. As a metagaming play, I think it's okay. Keep doing it, and eventually it'll pay off because there will be activity from everyone (the assumption here is that people who sign up know that this is the standard etc.). I don't think it'll help the town in this individual game though. I'll go random up some numbers if you want me to look at some people tonight/on day 2. I'll catch up later on the rest, but I wanted to offer my thoughts on this now. | ||
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