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On November 24 2008 03:54 adelarge wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2008 02:57 baubo wrote:
How much of that is map, and how much is that due to protosses all being awesome right now?
I don't believe that outside some extreme maps like Harmony and Raid Assault 2, there's a single map that doesn't look protoss biased from a simple record standpoint. All the maps currently in use in the PL, MSL, and the OSL are also statistically protoss favored in PvTs. You can't just blame GOM for this.
Look at Neo Requiem. This map is played since 2005. It's 3-4 years old map and it was protoss favored since then. Seriously, if you have new map like Medusa, which has over 70% PvT, why the hell from all old maps add ANOTHER over 70% one?? It's not like that have to, it is? But it seems than GOM has a lovely habit to include old PvT imbalanced maps since GOMTV Star Invitational (Baekmagoji), so why not continue? Look at Medusa. 4 wins for Terrans. It looks bad as it is, but worse - 3 of them belong to one player, Flash...one of the very best players who ever lays his hand of Starcraft. And 2 wins are over second rate players and one is a cheese against Bisu... I have nothing against Destination (yet  ), it's 60% PvT stats are not that singificant looking at actual games... And I can blame GOM for this. They did it with Katrina and Baekmagoji in GOMTV Star Invitational and they are doing this again now. One or two maps can be a fluke but this? This is idiocy in its purest form...
Yeah, some map choices are unbelievably stupid.
I think they don't choose based on balance, but either on what the spectators want, or to strengthen one race (because P was the underdog for so long?). Or both.
Not for all maps of course, I doubt that it's an "evil conspiracy", but I do believe they bring in 1 or 2 ridiculous maps which don't serve the purpose of being balanced, but some other goal. Maybe also simply "change"... after all it's said that the scene is shrinking, so bringing in an imbalanced but exotic map which provides some short-term funny games (although one-sided) is a good thing to do.
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Wasn't there some video that Jon747 posted, don't know how legit it is, but basically it was a Kespa mapmaker talking about how the first priority when making a map is "protoss balance" because Protoss was "weak for so long" or some bullshit like that. And he said he was a protoss player.
Little gets me mad in pro gaming but something like that just pisses me off.
It's just one person's distorted views dictating the entire pro scene with genius maps like Byzanitum. Go fuck yourself.
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Hungary11305 Posts
On November 24 2008 05:13 []p4NDemik[] wrote:
i was only able to stay awake through the first game of Rock/Bogus - any recommended VOD's?
Jangbi vs. Berserker, whole series in my opinion.
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It would be so funny if pepe won it all. I mean, this guy has been a wreck since his debut, and has been up to 1 win - 13 loses or something like that. This could make up for all his disastrous performances to date.
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k neo reqium is an old map, balance changes. No one can know *for sure* that because of changing trends, the balance would not change as well. Hell PL did this, so gom followed suit. Not that bad of a decision. It's a well balanced map excluding pvt, and it brings interesting games.
Medusa brings REALLY interesting games, and though imbalanced in two match ups, is extremely new. Not when GOM chose the map, nor now, could anyone be sure that Medusa would be, or remained imbalanced.
Look at blue storm. It favoured Zerg in zvp, but by the end of its existence, it favoured protoss.
If you wanna bitch about imbalance bitch about PL maps, where almost every single one is drastically favoured for Terran. That is BAD. Why? Its not entertaining, its destructive to Starcraft. This aint.
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On November 24 2008 07:26 Dazed_Spy wrote:
k neo reqium is an old map, balance changes. No one can know *for sure* that because of changing trends, the balance would not change as well. Hell PL did this, so gom followed suit. Not that bad of a decision. It's a well balanced map excluding pvt, and it brings interesting games.
Medusa brings REALLY interesting games, and though imbalanced in two match ups, is extremely new. Not when GOM chose the map, nor now, could anyone be sure that Medusa would be, or remained imbalanced.
Look at blue storm. It favoured Zerg in zvp, but by the end of its existence, it favoured protoss.
If you wanna bitch about imbalance bitch about PL maps, where almost every single one is drastically favoured for Terran. That is BAD. Why? Its not entertaining, its destructive to Starcraft. This aint.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=80882
o rly?
edit: btw it was ZvT on bluestorm ( in favor of z). other than ZvT the other matchups were quite or close 2 balanced as u can get http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/159_Blue_Storm
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Last season stats. Because some reason Bluestorm map stats moved as version changed, so stats looked good with zerg, but as you can see ZvP is badly protoss favored. ZvT is slighty terran favored but older stats from 1.0 and 1.1 version messes up stats.
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United States13896 Posts
On November 24 2008 07:55 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
Last season stats. Because some reason Bluestorm map stats moved as version changed, so stats looked good with zerg, but as you can see ZvP is badly protoss favored. ZvT is slighty terran favored but older stats from 1.0 and 1.1 version messes up stats.
This should be more useful to illustrate your point:
Blue Storm 1.0: TvZ: 18-38 (32.1%) | ZvP: 27-22 (55.1%) | PvT: 22-24 (47.8%)
Blue Storm 1.1: TvZ: 9-7 (56.3%) | ZvP: 9-16 (36%) | PvT: 8-12 (40%)
Overall Stats: TvZ: 27-45 (37.5%) | ZvP: 36-38 (48.6%) | PvT: 30-36 (45.5%)
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On November 24 2008 07:36 sung_moon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2008 07:26 Dazed_Spy wrote:
k neo reqium is an old map, balance changes. No one can know *for sure* that because of changing trends, the balance would not change as well. Hell PL did this, so gom followed suit. Not that bad of a decision. It's a well balanced map excluding pvt, and it brings interesting games.
Medusa brings REALLY interesting games, and though imbalanced in two match ups, is extremely new. Not when GOM chose the map, nor now, could anyone be sure that Medusa would be, or remained imbalanced.
Look at blue storm. It favoured Zerg in zvp, but by the end of its existence, it favoured protoss.
If you wanna bitch about imbalance bitch about PL maps, where almost every single one is drastically favoured for Terran. That is BAD. Why? Its not entertaining, its destructive to Starcraft. This aint. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=80882o rly?
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/178_Othello/games/TvT
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/174_Wuthering_Heights/games/TvT
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/148_Geometry/games/TvT
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/186_Harmony/games/TvT
Kinda hinting at these maps buddy. These right here. Some of the most imbalanced, and ultimately destructive maps to have ever graced Starcraft.
50 tvt's=Starcrafts decline. Until you have a damn map that ONLY protosses played on, EVERY season, if not TWO like last season, you cant shut your fucking mouth. kthx bye.
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On November 24 2008 08:48 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2008 07:36 sung_moon wrote:On November 24 2008 07:26 Dazed_Spy wrote:
k neo reqium is an old map, balance changes. No one can know *for sure* that because of changing trends, the balance would not change as well. Hell PL did this, so gom followed suit. Not that bad of a decision. It's a well balanced map excluding pvt, and it brings interesting games.
Medusa brings REALLY interesting games, and though imbalanced in two match ups, is extremely new. Not when GOM chose the map, nor now, could anyone be sure that Medusa would be, or remained imbalanced.
Look at blue storm. It favoured Zerg in zvp, but by the end of its existence, it favoured protoss.
If you wanna bitch about imbalance bitch about PL maps, where almost every single one is drastically favoured for Terran. That is BAD. Why? Its not entertaining, its destructive to Starcraft. This aint. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=80882o rly? http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/178_Othello/games/TvThttp://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/174_Wuthering_Heights/games/TvThttp://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/148_Geometry/games/TvThttp://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/186_Harmony/games/TvTKinda hinting at these maps buddy. These right here. Some of the most imbalanced, and ultimately destructive maps to have ever graced Starcraft. 50 tvt's=Starcrafts decline. Until you have a damn map that ONLY protosses played on, EVERY season, if not TWO like last season, you cant shut your fucking mouth. kthx bye.
Uh, are you trolling or what? First you said "bitch about PL maps, where almost every single one is drastically favoured for Terran" and after that you listed FOUR maps from which ONLY ONE is played in this proleague season. Hell, last game on geometry is more than year old. More thinking and less insulting next time...provided you don't wanna embarrass yourself.
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On November 24 2008 05:14 0xDEADBEEF wrote:
Yeah, some map choices are unbelievably stupid.
I think they don't choose based on balance, but either on what the spectators want, or to strengthen one race (because P was the underdog for so long?). Or both.
Not for all maps of course, I doubt that it's an "evil conspiracy", but I do believe they bring in 1 or 2 ridiculous maps which don't serve the purpose of being balanced, but some other goal. Maybe also simply "change"... after all it's said that the scene is shrinking, so bringing in an imbalanced but exotic map which provides some short-term funny games (although one-sided) is a good thing to do.
I agree, I wouldn't complain against one imba map (especially in BO5), but two imba maps in BO3? That's just stupid. Or one imba map in favor of T and second in favor of P would do too...
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On November 24 2008 08:48 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2008 07:36 sung_moon wrote:On November 24 2008 07:26 Dazed_Spy wrote:
k neo reqium is an old map, balance changes. No one can know *for sure* that because of changing trends, the balance would not change as well. Hell PL did this, so gom followed suit. Not that bad of a decision. It's a well balanced map excluding pvt, and it brings interesting games.
Medusa brings REALLY interesting games, and though imbalanced in two match ups, is extremely new. Not when GOM chose the map, nor now, could anyone be sure that Medusa would be, or remained imbalanced.
Look at blue storm. It favoured Zerg in zvp, but by the end of its existence, it favoured protoss.
If you wanna bitch about imbalance bitch about PL maps, where almost every single one is drastically favoured for Terran. That is BAD. Why? Its not entertaining, its destructive to Starcraft. This aint. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=80882o rly? http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/178_Othello/games/TvThttp://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/174_Wuthering_Heights/games/TvThttp://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/148_Geometry/games/TvThttp://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/186_Harmony/games/TvTKinda hinting at these maps buddy. These right here. Some of the most imbalanced, and ultimately destructive maps to have ever graced Starcraft. 50 tvt's=Starcrafts decline. Until you have a damn map that ONLY protosses played on, EVERY season, if not TWO like last season, you cant shut your fucking mouth. kthx bye.
o yes. because showing 4 maps all of which are from different seasons constitutes the "decline of starcraft". its best if u just stop.
edit: imbalanced GOM maps or not, 1base tech play is something quite refreshing. not to mention several games such as Savior+Neo Requiem
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On November 24 2008 08:48 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2008 07:36 sung_moon wrote:On November 24 2008 07:26 Dazed_Spy wrote:
k neo reqium is an old map, balance changes. No one can know *for sure* that because of changing trends, the balance would not change as well. Hell PL did this, so gom followed suit. Not that bad of a decision. It's a well balanced map excluding pvt, and it brings interesting games.
Medusa brings REALLY interesting games, and though imbalanced in two match ups, is extremely new. Not when GOM chose the map, nor now, could anyone be sure that Medusa would be, or remained imbalanced.
Look at blue storm. It favoured Zerg in zvp, but by the end of its existence, it favoured protoss.
If you wanna bitch about imbalance bitch about PL maps, where almost every single one is drastically favoured for Terran. That is BAD. Why? Its not entertaining, its destructive to Starcraft. This aint. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=80882o rly? http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/178_Othello/games/TvThttp://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/174_Wuthering_Heights/games/TvThttp://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/148_Geometry/games/TvThttp://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/186_Harmony/games/TvTKinda hinting at these maps buddy. These right here. Some of the most imbalanced, and ultimately destructive maps to have ever graced Starcraft. 50 tvt's=Starcrafts decline. Until you have a damn map that ONLY protosses played on, EVERY season, if not TWO like last season, you cant shut your fucking mouth. kthx bye.
othello and wuthering were mainly tvt maps because of katrina and blue storm's p and z favoredness actually. pretty much every team has 2+ proleague caliber terrans, and it was a waste to not use them and suicidal to send them against p's on katrina or z's on blue storm, so they ended up playing wuthering and othello mostly.
and the current trend of protoss favored maps is indeed destructive to starcraft. how many people you know were excited about a all toss top 4 msl?
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Rock vs Bogus game 3: Best game of all time?
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 24 2008 10:46 ArC_man wrote:
Rock vs Bogus game 3: Best game of all time?
QUITE POSSIBLY
i love rock so much
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3861 Posts
On November 24 2008 11:30 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2008 10:46 ArC_man wrote:
Rock vs Bogus game 3: Best game of all time? QUITE POSSIBLY i love rock so much
sea will get jealous.
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I just rewatched the Bogus vs The Rock series... dayum wtf those games were crazy haha. Destination game with so many goliaths >.> Haha Innovation has come such a long way since then 
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LOL, this one is an actual necro.
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On January 08 2014 16:01 gen.Sun wrote:
LOL, this one is an actual necro.
With the announcement of Classic S4, I got excited and started watching old Averatec/Intel classics
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Fuck you I clicked this and thought this was a tournament that I somehow missed the start of
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Daigomi/M0714.png)
