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Pick Your Power: Redux - Page 24

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Snarfs
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1006 Posts
May 15 2012 21:56 GMT
#461
Holy crap, totally forgot about this game in a haze of diablo 3, caffeine and caffeine related substances.

I've submitted my numbers and I'm going to read through the thread now. Apologies to GM for not being as active as I'd hoped.

Let's do this!
deconduo
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Ireland4122 Posts
May 15 2012 21:57 GMT
#462
On May 16 2012 06:51 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hmm.... that and GMarshal's clarification seems to take angry vig down a notch. Although Hider and Witch aren't exactly prime roles, it's still something to consider.

I think jailkeeper would be odd though in the early game. Since generally you'd have a greater chance of blocking a blue than a red until we have a good picture of who everyone is. It's like shooting someone in the foot and then patching up the wound. The flip side to this is being able to roleblock the SK's bulletproof and having vigs/CPR/mafia take him out.


Nope, cos jailing them protects them as well.
deconduo
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Ireland4122 Posts
May 15 2012 22:08 GMT
#463
On May 16 2012 05:40 Qatol wrote:
Deconduo, I don't like the idea of a tiering system because I don't want people locked into the idea of "X role isn't good enough to be picked this early" or "X role is too good to be picked this late." Such a system results in CPR Doctor being picked at 20, Meth Man making it to 16, and Copycat slipping down to 24 (all from Pick Your Power Insane). I know it will still happen to a certain extent, but I want to minimize it. If it's a good role, I want to see it in the game and I want to see it in the hands of someone who is comfortable using it. That should also keep interest and activity levels higher for the town. I realize that you left things relatively open, but I think any sort of tiering system will push people into this mindset more than I'd like to see.


Surely having a tiered system increases the chances of good roles being in the game, not the other way around? It encourages people to pick the better, town favoured roles.

On May 16 2012 05:40 Qatol wrote:
Jailkeeper in particular synergizes well with CPR doctor. Generally, it's an extra doctor, but it also has the benefit of denying the use of roles you don't want to see used anyways. Alternatively, we can use it as a second roleblocker. You would take it instead of roleblocker or doctor because you think the other role is being picked or just because you want to give the game a little more flexibility.

Hider is a gamber's role, but only to a certain extent. Notice that Hider does not die if he hides behind mafia any more. This means that you just have to think about the players you think the mafia/SK are unlikely to hit.

The biggest benefit of Witch isn't that it reduces KP, but that it definitely automatically gives a free blocked hit. This alone makes it stronger than Veteran unless someone is silly enough to shoot the Veteran twice but not on consecutive nights. It may also be stronger than Doctor because of how hard it is to block a hit in the first place.


The fact that the witch and hider block any KP, not just one, does increase their potential value. I still think jailkeeper is bad however.

On May 16 2012 05:40 Qatol wrote:
I disagree about claiming a denial role straight away. Claim it only after the Copy Cat has been decided. We don't want to give the mafia ideas about other players to shoot and grab good roles.


Good point.
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
May 15 2012 22:20 GMT
#464
On May 16 2012 06:57 deconduo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2012 06:51 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hmm.... that and GMarshal's clarification seems to take angry vig down a notch. Although Hider and Witch aren't exactly prime roles, it's still something to consider.

I think jailkeeper would be odd though in the early game. Since generally you'd have a greater chance of blocking a blue than a red until we have a good picture of who everyone is. It's like shooting someone in the foot and then patching up the wound. The flip side to this is being able to roleblock the SK's bulletproof and having vigs/CPR/mafia take him out.


Nope, cos jailing them protects them as well.


Dammit didn't think that through. Well there's another point for the town rolecop.

Next question - Why would Hider be an important defensive role? From my point of view it seems like an information role or a role that defends others would be much more important. The only use I could see for Hider is an active/veteran player being able to voice his opinions without getting shot.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 15 2012 22:23 GMT
#465
Hider is strong because you are saving yourself (unlike medic) and its infinite KP proof (unlike vet).
deconduo
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Ireland4122 Posts
May 15 2012 22:39 GMT
#466
On May 16 2012 07:23 slOosh wrote:
Hider is strong because you are saving yourself (unlike medic) and its infinite KP proof (unlike vet).


Getting stacked is highly unlikely given the setup, and the angry vig only has one shot. The chance of dying by hiding behind the wrong person far outweighs this benefit imo. I would take vet over hider any time.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
May 15 2012 22:41 GMT
#467
On May 16 2012 07:39 deconduo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2012 07:23 slOosh wrote:
Hider is strong because you are saving yourself (unlike medic) and its infinite KP proof (unlike vet).


Getting stacked is highly unlikely given the setup, and the angry vig only has one shot. The chance of dying by hiding behind the wrong person far outweighs this benefit imo. I would take vet over hider any time.


you can't die by hiding behind the wrong person, unless you are talking about hiding behind someone who's going to die very early making your protection vanish. But yeah I agree I'd choose vet over Hider as well.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Snarfs
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1006 Posts
May 15 2012 22:55 GMT
#468
Catching up:

I'm okay with either

CPR
Janitor
CPR/Janitor 50/50

or

CPR
CPR
Janitor

Qatol, it looks like your argument against the second option was that it didn't prevent the Janitor power from being used (please correct me if I have this wrong). However, in either situation, if mafia gets the Janitor spot on the queue, they can use it in exchange for a member of their team. Either way if Janitor is used we lynch into the Janitor spot on the queue.

I also don't really mind if people post their own rankings of the roles. It can be useful for newer players who haven't seen many of these roles, such as myself, to see the discussion. As long as everyone looking for advice doesn't take it as a "you have to pick these roles in these positions", it seems more beneficial than harmful.
deconduo
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Ireland4122 Posts
May 15 2012 22:56 GMT
#469
On May 16 2012 07:41 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2012 07:39 deconduo wrote:
On May 16 2012 07:23 slOosh wrote:
Hider is strong because you are saving yourself (unlike medic) and its infinite KP proof (unlike vet).


Getting stacked is highly unlikely given the setup, and the angry vig only has one shot. The chance of dying by hiding behind the wrong person far outweighs this benefit imo. I would take vet over hider any time.


you can't die by hiding behind the wrong person, unless you are talking about hiding behind someone who's going to die very early making your protection vanish. But yeah I agree I'd choose vet over Hider as well.


I think you misunderstand the hider role. If I hide behind X and someone shoots X, we both die.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
May 15 2012 22:58 GMT
#470
On May 16 2012 07:56 deconduo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2012 07:41 Toadesstern wrote:
On May 16 2012 07:39 deconduo wrote:
On May 16 2012 07:23 slOosh wrote:
Hider is strong because you are saving yourself (unlike medic) and its infinite KP proof (unlike vet).


Getting stacked is highly unlikely given the setup, and the angry vig only has one shot. The chance of dying by hiding behind the wrong person far outweighs this benefit imo. I would take vet over hider any time.


you can't die by hiding behind the wrong person, unless you are talking about hiding behind someone who's going to die very early making your protection vanish. But yeah I agree I'd choose vet over Hider as well.


I think you misunderstand the hider role. If I hide behind X and someone shoots X, we both die.


oh, true. Just more reasons to pick vet over hider.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
May 16 2012 01:04 GMT
#471
Its time to pick roles!
List of picking order coming out in a couple minutes!
Moderator
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 01:51:26
May 16 2012 01:14 GMT
#472
Draft order!
  1. deconduo
  2. risk.nuke
  3. marvellosity
  4. [UoN]Sentinel
  5. Mattchew
  6. zelblade
  7. Bluelightz
  8. talismania
  9. Misder
  10. PaqMan
  11. slOosh
  12. Toadesstern
  13. Barundar
  14. Zephirdd
  15. hiro protagonist
  16. Palmar
  17. Snarfs
  18. Qatol
  19. sandroba
  20. Probulous


If you didn't send in numbers, you got put at the end of the queue. Ties between exact matches were resolved by rng.You have a little under 24 hours to PM chaoser and myself what role you'd like to be! Remember, if its taken, you become vanilla.
Moderator
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
May 16 2012 01:17 GMT
#473
not bad with the worst pokerhand
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
talismania
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States2364 Posts
May 16 2012 01:24 GMT
#474
I picked 15,1
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
May 16 2012 01:25 GMT
#475
[4][2] see you tomorrow.
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
May 16 2012 01:28 GMT
#476
[9, 1] here.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
May 16 2012 01:47 GMT
#477
[10, 10] over here. Thought noone is retarded enough to pick that

Probulous probably doesn't know the game has started yet. He never posted something and GMs phrase makes it look like that happened.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Qatol
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States3165 Posts
May 16 2012 02:03 GMT
#478
On May 16 2012 07:55 Snarfs wrote:
Catching up:

I'm okay with either

CPR
Janitor
CPR/Janitor 50/50

or

CPR
CPR
Janitor

Qatol, it looks like your argument against the second option was that it didn't prevent the Janitor power from being used (please correct me if I have this wrong). However, in either situation, if mafia gets the Janitor spot on the queue, they can use it in exchange for a member of their team. Either way if Janitor is used we lynch into the Janitor spot on the queue.

I also don't really mind if people post their own rankings of the roles. It can be useful for newer players who haven't seen many of these roles, such as myself, to see the discussion. As long as everyone looking for advice doesn't take it as a "you have to pick these roles in these positions", it seems more beneficial than harmful.

Yeah you're right. Either way, I'm standing by my earlier position of doing CPR, Janitor, 50/50.
I'm okay with people posting opinions/rankings/tiers for roles, but I am NOT okay with us trying to force a tier or order system on people. I think that should be left up to the judgment of each individual player.
Uff Da
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
May 16 2012 02:07 GMT
#479
Wtf I went with 3,2 -.-

whatevs gonna pick now.
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
Qatol
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States3165 Posts
May 16 2012 02:11 GMT
#480
Why are people posting their numbers? It doesn't help anything. It is useless spam. The numbers theory from PYP1 only worked because the mafia hadn't thought of it. Now that it has been used, the numbers don't serve any purpose because the mafia could have taken that plan into account and deliberately clashed with each other. Heck, in PYP:Insane, the mafia 3x clashed with each other.
Uff Da
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