Is Terran to remain the lowest played race? - Page 22

On February 06 2013 22:03 plgElwood wrote:
[...]

My Solution : Warpgate can only warp in on pylons powering the warpgate itself or at a Warpprism, observer need observatory.
Nexus can hold one less Chronoboost. Assimilators loose half their HP.

[...]

On February 06 2013 22:03 plgElwood wrote:
So as terran you have to always get maximum value out of your units, while constantly making new ones and adding more production.

For all non one-base games, and Terran opens 1RaxFE

- Protoss has to play save till a tech or unit goal is achieved and then either roflstomps unprepared Terran or takes another base. All units ultimately add up to a deathball, most units share the same upgrades.
The robo gives you units with AoE,tankingability,detection and drop abilty. So its like a swissarmy-chainsaw-lightsaber machinegun-satelite. There has to be no decision making, immortals will help you out against terran early game, and you need obs to scout, yo go one-gate-robo-expand.
Production : Chronoboost speeds everything, of you forget CR, you can just speed up what you forgot. So a mistake does not matter that much. Also "warpgates" are too cheap for 150 mins and no miningtime lost for that worker. Warp in on site changes close battles so much, even when the fight is in terrans natural, warp in is better than walking. Also the units are super durable, so terran needs to micro every second against Zealots and also needs to produce and rally new units.



- Zerg has to expand and make only Queens and drones. With simcity it´s not possible to harass with Hellion Banshee

On three bases with creepspread any attack can be crushed before getting to your base. I really like zergling Muta, but most Z have gotten so lazy they just go straight infestor and some roaches, 4th and Hive. Still it is hard to stop if every move is spotted.
The reason why foreign Zergs do good is the stupidity of the Mechanics. Inject,creep,overlord,drone and all over again.
You get income, vision and production from that cycle and you just have to repeat it.
Good zergs identify the threatlevel all the time and react properly.
Every Overlord has potential to grant detection, Queens are great against early terran aggression.

P and Z can make more mistakes in macro and won´t fall behind. In engagements Protoss is the race that has to watch least for a good position. Zerg can defend early aggression with Queens, which also boost his economy, like fucking Terminator-Mules with .50cal miniguns

So there is a skillgap between Terrans and P/Z created by the influence of a macro and positioning mistake
Top korean Terrans dont do these.


My Solution : Warpgate can only warp in on pylons powering the warpgate itself or at a Warpprism, observer need observatory.
Nexus can hold one less Chronoboost. Assimilators loose half their HP.

Ultralisks should be build from hatcheries not larvae. Larvae-inject grants less the amount, but needs to be done more frequently.

My Goal: Make P and Z harder to play to create an even rewarding feeling from winning, and evenly distributed effect for making mistakes.

On February 06 2013 22:04 howLiN wrote:
To be honest I'm seriously considering switching from Protoss to Terran in HotS, I'm loving the way all the factory units work together.

On February 07 2013 00:43 zmansman17 wrote:


Good. Blizzard is going to need people to play Terran. Most high masters players like myself that I know won't be playing Terran or at all.

On February 06 2013 10:31 FabledIntegral wrote:


Back space and V are hotkeys. Using V for inject is the definition of using a hotkey. And no, the macro is entirely different still, with the reason being your drones will follow your rally point. For drones to remain at your town hall, you would have to not be using any rally points. The macro isn't comparable.

On February 07 2013 00:48 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Lol some much nonsense in this thread. Terran used to be able to win be stimming units up a ramp because players were bad and missed forcefields and maps had main bases like on Scrap Station.
The thought that terran macro and micro is X times harder than protoss or zerg macro because you can't win games like that anymore is nonsense. If you're good at it, you're good at it. If you're not, you're not. That's what there is to it. You don't hear korean pros complain about how hard it is to macro with their respective race. Why? Because they're good. So if you ever feel that you lose games underservedly at the top level, get better at the game. Up until GM, balance hardly affects you.

The whine that protoss and zerg are more forgiving is absolute bullshit. Like, it is absolutely 100% bullshit. Protoss loses their army once, the game ends. Zerg loses their fragile army to something slightly mobile? The game ends because an immediate counter attack kills 2 bases. Every race is unforgiving at a high level and whoever thinks that protoss or zerg don't need positioning or micro has never played a somewhat high level ZvZ, PvP, PvZ or PvT or played at a high level at all. If you stim your shit up a ramp into an army that's DESIGNED to beat yours, why the fuck would you expect to come out ahead. Just like protoss can't just use a zealot/archon army to fight in choke points. It's common sense. Of course you need positioning. But that's the same for every race.

At the very beginning, when you pick your race, did terran seem the most interesting to you? Zerg is unique, protoss is unique. Terran feels like something every other RTS can offer as well. Most people stick with the race they pick at the beginning. I feel that that really is the main source of fewer terran players, at least at lower levels.

Yes terran is hard to play lategame. But the only reason for that is that they can't instantly replace part of their army and doesn't have strong static defense to make up for that.

What definitely could help that is something like queueing up units when you're maxed that will build faster the longer they're queued up. That way, terran will also benefit in a macro way from being maxed, like protoss building more gates or zerg massing larvae. But honestly, that's got NOTHING to do with terran macro being harder.

On February 07 2013 02:00 Vanadiel wrote:
To be honest, I always found the discussion about each race difficulty totally irrelevant at non-professional gamer because the ladder system is intrinsically imbalanced (BO1, random map and unknown opponent). It depends way more on the way you play than the race you play, you can't put at the same level of difficulty goody's kind of mech and pure bio as Marine King Prime, ling muta and ling infestor, the difficulty to perform a 7 gates immortal Sentry and the difficulty to defend it... and so on, it's purely situational. You can go in GM fairly easily with whatever race and appropriate all in (one per match up), but it doesn't mean you'll succeed on a pro level with it but it's still easy to do.

On February 07 2013 02:46 budar wrote:
Remember how in beta/first half a year or so of WoL Terran was everywhere? Terran players back then used to say that "better players are playing Terran". In reality, Terran was too strong. Anyway, other players where whining that Terran was OP, much like Terran/Protoss are whining Zerg is OP now.

There is one thing that's pretty key here that I think is often overlooked. If you've been playing for months in high master, it will feel shitty/less fun playing in low master or even diamond (at least it did for me, though my "fall" was due to inactivity instead of balance changes). Now, many Terran players got a higher relative rating while Terran was strong and have steadily been losing ground on ladder ever since Terran was (over)nerfed. The same thing will happen to Zerg in HotS if the balance of powers is different... Many lower level Zergs (by that I mean all master and even many GM players) will lose interest or find the game less fun when their actual rating/league will be lower.

You can actually see this in the pro scene as well... Remember how many EU/NA Terran players used to be really dangerous in every tournament? So many of them have completely disappeared, many citing "motivation problems".

On February 07 2013 02:46 budar wrote:
Remember how in beta/first half a year or so of WoL Terran was everywhere? Terran players back then used to say that "better players are playing Terran". In reality, Terran was too strong. Anyway, other players where whining that Terran was OP, much like Terran/Protoss are whining Zerg is OP now.

There is one thing that's pretty key here that I think is often overlooked. If you've been playing for months in high master, it will feel shitty/less fun playing in low master or even diamond (at least it did for me, though my "fall" was due to inactivity instead of balance changes). Now, many Terran players got a higher relative rating while Terran was strong and have steadily been losing ground on ladder ever since Terran was (over)nerfed. The same thing will happen to Zerg in HotS if the balance of powers is different... Many lower level Zergs (by that I mean all master and even many GM players) will lose interest or find the game less fun when their actual rating/league will be lower.

You can actually see this in the pro scene as well... Remember how many EU/NA Terran players used to be really dangerous in every tournament? So many of them have completely disappeared, many citing "motivation problems".

On February 07 2013 03:17 Vanadiel wrote:
Well, Jinro did had the best foreigner results in GSL and won an MLG, QXC did an all kill in GSTL, Morrow winning over Idra with 5 rax reaper at IEM, Naama won Dreamhack, Sjow won IEM.