EPTFrom what I've watched, the long waits between games in the finals were really annoying, especially for me as an European. The audio wasn't great either (at least not the first day) and I'd have rather seen Tastosis casting the finals than Incontrol and Gretorp (who are good casters too, but not as good).
NASL Finals Stuff - Page 22
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Thorakh
Netherlands1788 Posts
From what I've watched, the long waits between games in the finals were really annoying, especially for me as an European. The audio wasn't great either (at least not the first day) and I'd have rather seen Tastosis casting the finals than Incontrol and Gretorp (who are good casters too, but not as good). | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On July 13 2011 06:37 FabledIntegral wrote: P.S. I prefer single-elimination. Please keep it. I just hate double elimination because I think it makes the finals MUCH more anti-climactic. You could always make it like NBA/MLB/NHL and have every single series be Bo7! That way tons of games :D. Yea group into single elim seems the best. Double elim is nice and but when it comes to finals/semis etc. it just isn't as epic. | ||
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Nuttyguy
United Kingdom1526 Posts
On July 12 2011 21:37 Nuttyguy wrote: The discounted HD pass for the weekend was a mission to find out about. had to find about it on IRC, it was 10$ when it said 25$. A little promotion about the weekend HD pass would be nice. I feel like i got robbed, since i bought it for 15$ like a week earlier with the discount code since i didn't know there was even going to be a HD pass for the weekend for 10$. i'm not even going to watch the VODs for the regular league play. Quoting myself so Xeris can hopefully see this. Got any response to this? | ||
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Drlemur
United States153 Posts
* High-stakes BO3 for the playoffs is fine, IMHO. Makes each game more exciting and there were already plenty of good ones. * Tastosis is great, but all the casters/interviewers did great. If anything, you had an embarrassment of riches. It's all good. * Glad to hear the live attendees felt like they were at a great show. From the stream, it looked a little drab except when the awesome games were going on. Finals suggestions: * Have a dedicated stream caster/host. They can periodically re-explain the current situation (since people log on and off the streams all day) that the live audience doesn't need. They can recap or even replay the games and generally fill some of the inevitable downtime. * Have the eliminated players interact with the fans at the arena and on stream. Have them chat with an interviewer or play TL-attack style funny games with fans or each other. If the budget permits, you can pay all the players at the finals an "attendance fee" just for showing up and participating in that (and signings) and make it even more worth their while to be at the finals even if they lose in the first round. Season suggestion: * I'm already overwhelmed by content and watched very few in-season games. But a weekly highlight should would have been awesome. Is it possible to recap the whole week's action in ~30 minutes? I would watch that every week and it would probably motivate me to pay for a season pass to go back and watch the best games. * The NASL.tv website was not easy to use for me. I would go over to see how the season was going, what happened this week, standings and would rarely easily find the info. Maybe it's to avoid spoiling results, but maybe a 24-hour rule and then stop hiding things. One thing you could do at NASL is more/better prep on players histories. During the finals, Incontrol didn't know which of the Koreans were Code S/A.  Nobody mentioned that oGsMC is the #1 SC2 money earner in the world to date (although they called him rich a couple of times). Casters should have interns prepping bio info before matches. Run-down their accomplishments in GSL, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. I don't think it undercuts NASL, it fits the NASL into the context of the other top leagues in the world.To me, the storylines of Koreans flying back and forth in the middle of the GSL was added interest. Are any staying over until MLG in Anaheim? When Sen's next big tourney? Puma? During the season, there were players who were scrambling to play matches around plane trips to other tournaments. It's not just sad when it doesn't work out, it's even more heroic when somebody wins a match from an internet cafe on a laptop.  Don't be afraid to talk about this type of meta-game -- it's actually more accessible to the non-hardcore SC2 fans out there. I talk about those things when I explain eSports to my non-gaming friends (playing in Sweden one week, then Korea and then California).NASL has some real potential. I hope you have some people building infrastructure who are aiming to make it a big (many multi-million dollars/year) business. You'll need lots of professionals and people thinking big to make that happen. If you're managing, Xeris, I hope you have an ownership stake and I hope you're trying to get rich. | ||
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OCsurfeR
United States195 Posts
On July 13 2011 06:47 Nuttyguy wrote: Quoting myself so Xeris can hopefully see this. Got any response to this? PM me with your details please. | ||
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groms
Canada1017 Posts
On July 12 2011 22:52 bennyaus wrote: I feel as if they should watch the whole event as a team in VOD form to really see what the stream viewer experience was. This ONE MILLION TIMES OVER... I hope someone gets the chance to sit down and watch the vod from the finals. From Friday (including the 2hrs and 30min delay) to sunday with all the sound screw ups and all the problems. I feel like had they not had an amazing finals we would have had a riot on our hands.. | ||
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groms
Canada1017 Posts
On July 13 2011 03:45 Xeris wrote: Anna has over 2 years of experience interviewing Starcraft players (the first time I remember her was at WCG USA 2009 interviewing people). Rachel has done a LOT of interviewing through her time in Korea. I was responding to the fact that people think it's just nepotism, but it isn't. We brought them to the event to do interviews because they've done a lot of it before. I've read that a lot of people would rather have someone like Artosis or Day9 doing interviews rather than Anna/Rachel. This point is being taken into consideration for future events. Again, I was responding to people simply saying "they're only here because of nepotism," they were there because of their experience. GET ARTOSIS TO DO INTERVIEWS!!! simple solution to a simple problem. This guy actually understands the game... Or at least get him to write the questions. I was really frustrated after seeing an amazing game only to have someone who didn't grasp it ask questions about some irrelevant situation in game or "how they prepared for their match?". | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On July 13 2011 06:47 Nuttyguy wrote: Quoting myself so Xeris can hopefully see this. Got any response to this? lol price drops happen all the time, not sure how you feel jipped. Usually companies make sure not to explicitly advertise reduced costs to the entire audience, but rather to select customers (via coupon catalogues, etc.). It's basic economics. Those who are poor and try to save whenever possible will make sure to look online for the best deals, while those who have money would simply rather pay the small amount extra instead of wasting time to find the deals. Sounds like you were actually "screwed" by timing, but still, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. Happens in every single industry. You think Microsoft would announce "going to lower prices in 2 months"? No way! No one would buy for 2 months... | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On July 12 2011 14:40 MrBorto wrote: The regular season was meaningless. ~80% of the views occurred during the regular season yet four of the 52 players took home 90% of the prize money on the very last day. How is that a league? For season 2 I would love to see you take $40k from the finals and put that into the regular season. $50 per game OR $4k for division winners $3k for runner ups and $2k for playoff winners. Make it meaningful. On July 12 2011 15:00 Joseph123 wrote: What makes me sad is that you think your format is ok.. (example you think its fair for Ret to win everything in the open season and then to lose 2 games and its out) You want NASL to be unique but at the same time you say the format is like other tournaments so its fine.. Dunno why didnt you excuse to the viewers for flying Tastosis and Day9 and not letting them cast all the games?.. You think its ok to get the best casters in the world and let them watch the finals in the audience? You didn't say anything about the long intros which were really boring for 97% of the people.. and no - progamers can't be an excuse for the delays nobody is believing that I agree. While it's true there is a limited amount of money, I think the first + second place should have 3k less (6k less combined); that money would be redistributed to Ro16-Ro8 So first is 47k and second is 22k (not that big of a drop in prize money). Ro16 would obtain 1k(500 dollars more for each of the 8 players), Ro8, 2k(500 more for 4 players each); fourth and third get the same 5/10k respectively. Not a huge difference but it'll at least make the Ro16 and Ro8 losers gain a little bit more for their travels. Also sometimes an unfortunate case may be Boxer vs MC for example (or anyone vs MC). The person who has to face MC first would be unfortunate. Even if said person is better than everyone else EXCEPT MC, that person will end up losing in the Ro16. To make the above issue less of an issue: I think NASL Finals Ro16 should be a Round Robin. Maybe similar to GSL Code S Ro32 (except 5 matches played instead of 3). Players could be in two groups of 8 then play a Bo5, always playing a different player. Players who wins Bo5 moves on. Ro8+ can be played as normal single elimination (or it could be another round robin). The reason why I think any of these changes should be done is because the tournament is weeks worth of play with only the top players from each division advancing to the finals (which is played locally rather than online). Now other tournaments do this also (single elimination and not a round robin) but that doesn't mean it is the best way nor does it mean it should be done for the NASL. Anyway good job on the NASL though. It's good to have more and more SC2 tournaments. I'm sure NASL will improve next season for sure . | ||
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
On July 13 2011 07:55 FabledIntegral wrote: lol price drops happen all the time, not sure how you feel jipped. Usually companies make sure not to explicitly advertise reduced costs to the entire audience, but rather to select customers (via coupon catalogues, etc.). It's basic economics. Those who are poor and try to save whenever possible will make sure to look online for the best deals, while those who have money would simply rather pay the small amount extra instead of wasting time to find the deals. Sounds like you were actually "screwed" by timing, but still, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. Happens in every single industry. You think Microsoft would announce "going to lower prices in 2 months"? No way! No one would buy for 2 months... Did you really just compare a multi-trillion dollar company to an esports production? Clearly you have cables crossed at some location. BTW Microsoft does care about customer retention, if you call up their support line and bitch, they would refund the money, much like i assume NASL will do. | ||
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fadestep
United States605 Posts
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moltenlead
Canada866 Posts
All of my criticisms have been addressed above, whether it's the sound, casting, or wait times. I just couldn't keep up with all the content, and there must have been some good way to keep track of all the matches. If R1CH accidentally hit the delete key and wiped all of TL, I would have the toughest of time finding out what happened in the competition, unlike with all the other majors tournaments (GSL, MLG, DH etc...) | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On July 13 2011 08:22 Holcan wrote: Did you really just compare a multi-trillion dollar company to an esports production? Clearly you have cables crossed at some location. BTW Microsoft does care about customer retention, if you call up their support line and bitch, they would refund the money, much like i assume NASL will do. It's like that with almost all companies. Microsoft was pulled out of my ass as I wrote the post. I never said anything about customer retention. If you bitch, they might give you a refund, but it doesn't mean at ANY point Microsoft cheated you. That guy was making it sound as if the NASL cheated him, with is a load of bullshit. | ||
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Grr Arr Rawr
United States108 Posts
Picture-in-Picture observing for matches. Have two observers,and pop up a PIP view of the drops or whatever when there's more than one area of interest. I hate when you miss a game-changing harass because the observer is focused on the main battle, but you also (obviously) can't forsake the main battles for every little harass on the chance that it's going to end the game. This would just be so nice. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On July 13 2011 16:03 Grr Arr Rawr wrote: While watching some Brood War matches tonight, I realized something that would be AMAZING to include in NASL: Picture-in-Picture observing for matches. Have two observers,and pop up a PIP view of the drops or whatever when there's more than one area of interest. I hate when you miss a game-changing harass because the observer is focused on the main battle, but you also (obviously) can't forsake the main battles for every little harass on the chance that it's going to end the game. This would just be so nice. That is a great idea and i would really like it, though they have to be careful not to clutter the screen too much. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
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BlueSpace
Germany2182 Posts
On July 13 2011 03:45 Xeris wrote: Anna has over 2 years of experience interviewing Starcraft players (the first time I remember her was at WCG USA 2009 interviewing people). Rachel has done a LOT of interviewing through her time in Korea. I was responding to the fact that people think it's just nepotism, but it isn't. We brought them to the event to do interviews because they've done a lot of it before. I've read that a lot of people would rather have someone like Artosis or Day9 doing interviews rather than Anna/Rachel. This point is being taken into consideration for future events. Again, I was responding to people simply saying "they're only here because of nepotism," they were there because of their experience. I didn't manage to post yesterday so sorry that this is a bit delayed but I would like to add something here. First of all I would like to say that I actually thought the interviews that Anna did were quite good. The mayor problem imho was that some of the players were extremely shy. And it is hard to interview someone with a translator that won't directly look at you. Besides asking the right questions I think it is also important to have a good stage presence when doing a live interview in front of a large crowd and while she might be lacking in the former I think she makes up for it by having plenty of the later. With all that being said I still have a large problem with your general line of reasoning when it comes to nepotism. Nepotism is the practice of promoting friends and family. This does not exclude them from being unskilled imho. There are drastic examples of nepotism where someone without any prior knowledge is elevated to a position that he is completely unsuited for but usually it is much more subtle then that. You should always strife to fill a position with the best possible candidate that you can get. I know that this is unrealistic and that most careers are build on knowing the right people but please don't tell me that this is not a form of nepotism. So the question shouldn't be if Anna or Rachel had any qualifications but if they really were the best person that you could get. This might sound like hair splitting but I think it is a question on how you approach these things. edited for spelling | ||
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ExPresident
United States215 Posts
That being said I'd like to comment on the actual content on the website. You've got a lot of stuff but missing some huge key items. 1. I went to the www.nasl.tv site during the finals because I wanted to check times. I noticed the finals had already started but I couldn't find a single link to the stream. Now, as a season pass subscriber I knew I could find it on justin.tv but its still insane that I couldn't find a link to the stream on the main site of the NASL, especially as a newcomer who may be interested in watching. I ended up finding the stream through the team liquid site. 2. There was some mention, again here on team liquid, that you guys were doing a deal for season 2 passes. Yet when I scan through the recent news posts on www.nasl.tv I don't see a single mention of it. I know you guys are partnered with wellplayed.org or something to that extent by why on earth can I not find pertinent information on the NASL website, it baffles me. I understand what you are trying to do with the whole league/show thing and I like it and understand it. There were at TON of great games for me to watch but I contribute that to the players. Finding the vods was tedious and the sound qualities have been beaten to death already. Also as others mentioned the interviews sucked. All that being said I truly hope that you guys do much better Season 2 because I want e-sports to do well. | ||
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reisada
183 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On July 13 2011 07:44 groms wrote: GET ARTOSIS TO DO INTERVIEWS!!! simple solution to a simple problem. This guy actually understands the game... Or at least get him to write the questions. I was really frustrated after seeing an amazing game only to have someone who didn't grasp it ask questions about some irrelevant situation in game or "how they prepared for their match?". I don't really get that argument to be honest. DjWheat and JP interview people often, and neither of them are good at the game. Their game knowledge is probably only slightly better than someone like Anna or Rachel (who both have extensive experience being around people who know a lot about the game). Is it because, as women, they seem less likely to know about the game or be qualified to interview someone as opposed to JP, for example? Nobody ever complains about JP's lack of game knowledge when he interviews someone... so why do people suddenly complain with Anna and/or Rachel interviewing someone? Also -- if you read Korean interviews of GSL games, they ask really similar questions.. "how did you prepare," "why did you decide to do X in Game 2," etc. Can you please elaborate? | ||
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