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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
Thanks. Happy Gaming. |
On February 27 2012 23:52 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 23:43 ManyCookies wrote:
Some people DO play Normals, you know. Oi. I do play normals. I just either use them to learn stuff (and fail badly) or to troll (and fail badly). There IS a reason Im the only 1700+ player with a 50-50 win ratio in normals. Oh and Sobek- Olaf's jungle is REALLY fucking good. He has the fastest clear in the game ATM (seriously. 8 minute wriggles and boots is SLOW for him) can 1v1 anyone early, has infinite sustain, very undderated ganks, and superb dragon control. The reason people think he sucks is because no one has bothered to try to adjust their build to not getting as much gold as solo top so he ends up useless the whole game long. Hence why you need to get bruiser items on him and not health items.
i've always agreed with yango when he says that olaf's issues revolve around not getting lane farm (which he needs) because you have 3 other carries trying to farm them. If pseudo-support mids start becoming popular again (they've had short bursts of popularity in zil and ori) olaf will be an incredibly strong pick.
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Ya Olaf is hella fun.
Trufax- ~1.5 years ago I actually learned how to REALLY jungle by playing olaf. I had learned how to jungle by playing WW, but I hadnt actually gotten good. But I was sick of being at 1100 ELO so I decided to actually learn how to jungle. At the time, TOO's olaf was very strong, and he had made a guide, so I learned how to play him. I think my record ended up being like 8-8 in ranked, but it served as the foundation for me figuring out how to play the game. Then I played amumu like 30 times and rose to 1500 in a month.
Side note: Amumu is incredibly op at low elo. Just farm your ass off, get tanky enough to absorb everything the enemy can throw at you, then ult when your team realizes that they should be fighting.
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Kinda ridiculous that their "leaver buster" system decided that me disc at the start of a coop vs AI game for like 5 min was the straw that broke the camels back and earned me a ban. No one even reported me they just detected that I was idle for a bit and banned me. They need to work a better system so they don't ban people who really just have shitty internet problems.
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On February 28 2012 00:12 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 23:52 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 27 2012 23:43 ManyCookies wrote:
Some people DO play Normals, you know. Oi. I do play normals. I just either use them to learn stuff (and fail badly) or to troll (and fail badly). There IS a reason Im the only 1700+ player with a 50-50 win ratio in normals. Oh and Sobek- Olaf's jungle is REALLY fucking good. He has the fastest clear in the game ATM (seriously. 8 minute wriggles and boots is SLOW for him) can 1v1 anyone early, has infinite sustain, very undderated ganks, and superb dragon control. The reason people think he sucks is because no one has bothered to try to adjust their build to not getting as much gold as solo top so he ends up useless the whole game long. Hence why you need to get bruiser items on him and not health items. i've always agreed with yango when he says that olaf's issues revolve around not getting lane farm (which he needs) because you have 3 other carries trying to farm them. If pseudo-support mids start becoming popular again (they've had short bursts of popularity in zil and ori) olaf will be an incredibly strong pick.
I dont buy this argument at all actually.
The majority of your farm comes from your early game jungling. If you are efficient, you will be able to carry an item advantage into the midgame fights where, if you live, you pick up gold.
Lanes are the same way- the majority of their farm comes from early laning, then late game it comes from teamfights. The lane gold post midgame just goes to whoever is closest to their next big item. Not to mention the vast majority of lane farm ends up being lost to minions anyway because most of the time you cant afford to be split apart anyway.
But if you looked at a graph of gold from minions over game time, Im 99% sure that thing would drop of significantly the longer the game went for every role.
But if you look at it, GP is considered a strong pick and he isnt any less farm dependent than olaf is. The real problem is people refuse to adjust their builds for the income they get. Why is it acceptable for GP to rush triforce when he is SQUISHIER than Olaf is? It makes no sense, but people get wierd assumptions about what champion builds need to look like.
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On February 28 2012 00:16 Slaughter wrote:
Kinda ridiculous that their "leaver buster" system decided that me disc at the start of a coop vs AI game for like 5 min was the straw that broke the camels back and earned me a ban. No one even reported me they just detected that I was idle for a bit and banned me. They need to work a better system so they don't ban people who really just have shitty internet problems.
I disconnected (or never got into) like 15 games at the end of 2011 and only got a warning. lol
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On February 28 2012 00:21 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 00:12 barbsq wrote:On February 27 2012 23:52 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 27 2012 23:43 ManyCookies wrote:
Some people DO play Normals, you know. Oi. I do play normals. I just either use them to learn stuff (and fail badly) or to troll (and fail badly). There IS a reason Im the only 1700+ player with a 50-50 win ratio in normals. Oh and Sobek- Olaf's jungle is REALLY fucking good. He has the fastest clear in the game ATM (seriously. 8 minute wriggles and boots is SLOW for him) can 1v1 anyone early, has infinite sustain, very undderated ganks, and superb dragon control. The reason people think he sucks is because no one has bothered to try to adjust their build to not getting as much gold as solo top so he ends up useless the whole game long. Hence why you need to get bruiser items on him and not health items. i've always agreed with yango when he says that olaf's issues revolve around not getting lane farm (which he needs) because you have 3 other carries trying to farm them. If pseudo-support mids start becoming popular again (they've had short bursts of popularity in zil and ori) olaf will be an incredibly strong pick. I dont buy this argument at all actually. The majority of your farm comes from your early game jungling. If you are efficient, you will be able to carry an item advantage into the midgame fights where, if you live, you pick up gold. Lanes are the same way- the majority of their farm comes from early laning, then late game it comes from teamfights. The lane gold post midgame just goes to whoever is closest to their next big item. Not to mention the vast majority of lane farm ends up being lost to minions anyway because most of the time you cant afford to be split apart anyway. But if you looked at a graph of gold from minions over game time, Im 99% sure that thing would drop of significantly the longer the game went for every role. But if you look at it, GP is considered a strong pick and he isnt any less farm dependent than olaf is. The real problem is people refuse to adjust their builds for the income they get. Why is it acceptable for GP to rush triforce when he is SQUISHIER than Olaf is? It makes no sense, but people get wierd assumptions about what champion builds need to look like.
but gp is less dependant on items than olaf is. If worst comes to worst and gp has 0 farm, he can still grab reverie and become an aurabot, and be reasonably effective as a peeler (hence why support gp is actually not terribad). Olaf is 100% an offensive champion, and i see minimal amounts of utility on him, so naturally he needs farm to be effective (imo). Granted, you only need to hit the breakpoint of items necessary to chase off a ranged AD to have just 'done your job', and you may be able to do that with just jungle farm, but i wouldn't feel comfortable trying to rely on that gold pool to get something done.
re: lategame farming, wtf, creeping is incredibly important at end game, i dunno what to even say to that.
edit: it also doesn't help that you're expected to cede blues to mid lane, which reduces your jungle speed.
edit2: ok, i actually think i see where you're going with the end game farming bit. Basically, that objectives like nashor, towers, drag and kills become your income, which I disagree with, but i see where you're coming from. That happens to really rely on quite a bit of snowballing, which won't always happen, and in the end, i am of the opinion that keeping up steady income from minions is at the same level of importance from start up until the point where you have 6 items, on a carry champion that is.
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On February 28 2012 00:21 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 00:12 barbsq wrote:On February 27 2012 23:52 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 27 2012 23:43 ManyCookies wrote:
Some people DO play Normals, you know. Oi. I do play normals. I just either use them to learn stuff (and fail badly) or to troll (and fail badly). There IS a reason Im the only 1700+ player with a 50-50 win ratio in normals. Oh and Sobek- Olaf's jungle is REALLY fucking good. He has the fastest clear in the game ATM (seriously. 8 minute wriggles and boots is SLOW for him) can 1v1 anyone early, has infinite sustain, very undderated ganks, and superb dragon control. The reason people think he sucks is because no one has bothered to try to adjust their build to not getting as much gold as solo top so he ends up useless the whole game long. Hence why you need to get bruiser items on him and not health items. i've always agreed with yango when he says that olaf's issues revolve around not getting lane farm (which he needs) because you have 3 other carries trying to farm them. If pseudo-support mids start becoming popular again (they've had short bursts of popularity in zil and ori) olaf will be an incredibly strong pick. I dont buy this argument at all actually. The majority of your farm comes from your early game jungling. If you are efficient, you will be able to carry an item advantage into the midgame fights where, if you live, you pick up gold. Lanes are the same way- the majority of their farm comes from early laning, then late game it comes from teamfights. The lane gold post midgame just goes to whoever is closest to their next big item. Not to mention the vast majority of lane farm ends up being lost to minions anyway because most of the time you cant afford to be split apart anyway. But if you looked at a graph of gold from minions over game time, Im 99% sure that thing would drop of significantly the longer the game went for every role. But if you look at it, GP is considered a strong pick and he isnt any less farm dependent than olaf is. The real problem is people refuse to adjust their builds for the income they get. Why is it acceptable for GP to rush triforce when he is SQUISHIER than Olaf is? It makes no sense, but people get wierd assumptions about what champion builds need to look like.
You're basically describing how farm works on TL B, which isn't really indicative of competitive teams as a whole. We're not very careful about who gets farm late game, and we don't ward aggressively enough to have safe zones for farming. As a result we don't get much farm late game and what farm we get is fairly evenly split amongst everyone save our support.
The competitive teams are usually warding aggressively unless they're extremely behind, allowing them to continue farming past the laning phase. They also tend to focus the farm onto the champions that need it most. We don't do that.
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On February 28 2012 00:35 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 00:21 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 28 2012 00:12 barbsq wrote:On February 27 2012 23:52 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 27 2012 23:43 ManyCookies wrote:
Some people DO play Normals, you know. Oi. I do play normals. I just either use them to learn stuff (and fail badly) or to troll (and fail badly). There IS a reason Im the only 1700+ player with a 50-50 win ratio in normals. Oh and Sobek- Olaf's jungle is REALLY fucking good. He has the fastest clear in the game ATM (seriously. 8 minute wriggles and boots is SLOW for him) can 1v1 anyone early, has infinite sustain, very undderated ganks, and superb dragon control. The reason people think he sucks is because no one has bothered to try to adjust their build to not getting as much gold as solo top so he ends up useless the whole game long. Hence why you need to get bruiser items on him and not health items. i've always agreed with yango when he says that olaf's issues revolve around not getting lane farm (which he needs) because you have 3 other carries trying to farm them. If pseudo-support mids start becoming popular again (they've had short bursts of popularity in zil and ori) olaf will be an incredibly strong pick. I dont buy this argument at all actually. The majority of your farm comes from your early game jungling. If you are efficient, you will be able to carry an item advantage into the midgame fights where, if you live, you pick up gold. Lanes are the same way- the majority of their farm comes from early laning, then late game it comes from teamfights. The lane gold post midgame just goes to whoever is closest to their next big item. Not to mention the vast majority of lane farm ends up being lost to minions anyway because most of the time you cant afford to be split apart anyway. But if you looked at a graph of gold from minions over game time, Im 99% sure that thing would drop of significantly the longer the game went for every role. But if you look at it, GP is considered a strong pick and he isnt any less farm dependent than olaf is. The real problem is people refuse to adjust their builds for the income they get. Why is it acceptable for GP to rush triforce when he is SQUISHIER than Olaf is? It makes no sense, but people get wierd assumptions about what champion builds need to look like. but gp is less dependant on items than olaf is. If worst comes to worst and gp has 0 farm, he can still grab reverie and become an aurabot, and be reasonably effective as a peeler (hence why support gp is actually not terribad). Olaf is 100% an offensive champion, and i see minimal amounts of utility on him, so naturally he needs farm to be effective (imo). Granted, you only need to hit the breakpoint of items necessary to chase off a ranged AD to have just 'done your job', and you may be able to do that with just jungle farm, but i wouldn't feel comfortable trying to rely on that gold pool to get something done. re: lategame farming, wtf, creeping is incredibly important at end game, i dunno what to even say to that. edit: it also doesn't help that you're expected to cede blues to mid lane, which reduces your jungle speed.
We arent talking about worst coming to worst. We are talking about GP with Triforce being considered one of the strongest characters in the game, but olaf with the same item somehow one of the weakest. Olaf carries it just as well because he can proc sheen very easily, is inherently tankier with it, and makes use of every stat (well, apart from ap). Not to mention that nearly every other jungle in the game has less inherent tank than Olaf, yet they are able to make due with the gold pool from jungle. I just chalk it up to the (mistaken) notion that Olaf somehow needs MORE than everyone else when he actually needs LESS.
Late game farm is important, yes, but not for an individual. It is more important that SOMEONE on your team gets it just so that it doesnt go to waste. It doesnt matter who, hence it typically goes to whoever is closest to their next big item. But by that point you ARE WHO YOU ARE. A 150 gold wave (a very large creep wave) will not make you unkillable. Jungles ride their early game, and olaf has one of the best. Once agian, it comes back to the mistaken idea that Olaf needs more than others. He doesnt, and even if he did, he has the means to get it, being one of the fastest jungles in the game.
And ya, not having blue does kind of suck. But wriggles+an axe on any camp will clear faster than everyone not named shyvana, udyr, or mundo. 2 axes clears faster, if you can spare the mana.
@ Seuss- But even look at CLG. Their laning phase lasts longer, sure, but the only champ that really gets late game farm is double, and even then most of the time its him farming when he should be somewhere else. The only time it ever gets siphoned is when someone activly says "I need this." Or when Hotshot just takes it.
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On February 28 2012 00:49 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 00:35 barbsq wrote:On February 28 2012 00:21 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 28 2012 00:12 barbsq wrote:On February 27 2012 23:52 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 27 2012 23:43 ManyCookies wrote:
Some people DO play Normals, you know. Oi. I do play normals. I just either use them to learn stuff (and fail badly) or to troll (and fail badly). There IS a reason Im the only 1700+ player with a 50-50 win ratio in normals. Oh and Sobek- Olaf's jungle is REALLY fucking good. He has the fastest clear in the game ATM (seriously. 8 minute wriggles and boots is SLOW for him) can 1v1 anyone early, has infinite sustain, very undderated ganks, and superb dragon control. The reason people think he sucks is because no one has bothered to try to adjust their build to not getting as much gold as solo top so he ends up useless the whole game long. Hence why you need to get bruiser items on him and not health items. i've always agreed with yango when he says that olaf's issues revolve around not getting lane farm (which he needs) because you have 3 other carries trying to farm them. If pseudo-support mids start becoming popular again (they've had short bursts of popularity in zil and ori) olaf will be an incredibly strong pick. I dont buy this argument at all actually. The majority of your farm comes from your early game jungling. If you are efficient, you will be able to carry an item advantage into the midgame fights where, if you live, you pick up gold. Lanes are the same way- the majority of their farm comes from early laning, then late game it comes from teamfights. The lane gold post midgame just goes to whoever is closest to their next big item. Not to mention the vast majority of lane farm ends up being lost to minions anyway because most of the time you cant afford to be split apart anyway. But if you looked at a graph of gold from minions over game time, Im 99% sure that thing would drop of significantly the longer the game went for every role. But if you look at it, GP is considered a strong pick and he isnt any less farm dependent than olaf is. The real problem is people refuse to adjust their builds for the income they get. Why is it acceptable for GP to rush triforce when he is SQUISHIER than Olaf is? It makes no sense, but people get wierd assumptions about what champion builds need to look like. but gp is less dependant on items than olaf is. If worst comes to worst and gp has 0 farm, he can still grab reverie and become an aurabot, and be reasonably effective as a peeler (hence why support gp is actually not terribad). Olaf is 100% an offensive champion, and i see minimal amounts of utility on him, so naturally he needs farm to be effective (imo). Granted, you only need to hit the breakpoint of items necessary to chase off a ranged AD to have just 'done your job', and you may be able to do that with just jungle farm, but i wouldn't feel comfortable trying to rely on that gold pool to get something done. re: lategame farming, wtf, creeping is incredibly important at end game, i dunno what to even say to that. edit: it also doesn't help that you're expected to cede blues to mid lane, which reduces your jungle speed. We arent talking about worst coming to worst. We are talking about GP with Triforce being considered one of the strongest characters in the game, but olaf with the same item somehow one of the weakest. Olaf carries it just as well because he can proc sheen very easily, is inherently tankier with it, and makes use of every stat (well, apart from ap). Not to mention that nearly every other jungle in the game has less inherent tank than Olaf, yet they are able to make due with the gold pool from jungle. I just chalk it up to the (mistaken) notion that Olaf somehow needs MORE than everyone else when he actually needs LESS. Late game farm is important, yes, but not for an individual. It is more important that SOMEONE on your team gets it just so that it doesnt go to waste. It doesnt matter who, hence it typically goes to whoever is closest to their next big item. But by that point you ARE WHO YOU ARE. A 150 gold wave (a very large creep wave) will not make you unkillable. Jungles ride their early game, and olaf has one of the best. Once agian, it comes back to the mistaken idea that Olaf needs more than others. He doesnt, and even if he did, he has the means to get it, being one of the fastest jungles in the game. And ya, not having blue does kind of suck. But wriggles+an axe on any camp will clear faster than everyone not named shyvana, udyr, or mundo. 2 axes clears faster, if you can spare the mana.
I never said that, but w/e. My point still stands that olaf simply lacks the utility that other junglers tend to have, hence his need for farm. Yes, you can make do with the limited gold from the jungle, but I just feel that if you do that, he becomes run-of-the-mill. What i was trying to get across is that Olaf goes from run-of-the-mill to incredibly strong if he gets consistent midgame farm, which can easily come from just grabbing creeps from mid lane, if you have some1 there who doesn't gobble up creeps. If you really wanted to make a comparison, I would consider olaf to be more like yi than anything else.
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If you reactivate Fizzes pole-vault does it still slow?
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According to the tooltip, if you use the Trickster part of Playful/Trickster, you can move but lose the slow.
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On February 28 2012 01:39 sob3k wrote:
If you reactivate Fizzes pole-vault does it still slow?
If you're asking wether the Trickster potion of his Playful/Trickster applies a slow then nope.
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I've been gone a few days before the Graves patch. I was 1570~ELO when I quit. Could you guys give me a quick rundown of what champs are considered solid picks for top/mid/bot/jungle, or any other stuff I need to be aware off. Thanks a bunch. This is BouBou.865 by the way.
I used to play:
Nasus/rumble/Renekton/Kennen solo top
Kennen/Annie mid
Cait/vayne//Soraka/taric/alis bot
Udyr/Warwick jungle
Any suggestions on what to add/remove from this line-up? RP is no problem.
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On February 28 2012 00:49 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 00:35 barbsq wrote:On February 28 2012 00:21 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 28 2012 00:12 barbsq wrote:On February 27 2012 23:52 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 27 2012 23:43 ManyCookies wrote:
Some people DO play Normals, you know. Oi. I do play normals. I just either use them to learn stuff (and fail badly) or to troll (and fail badly). There IS a reason Im the only 1700+ player with a 50-50 win ratio in normals. Oh and Sobek- Olaf's jungle is REALLY fucking good. He has the fastest clear in the game ATM (seriously. 8 minute wriggles and boots is SLOW for him) can 1v1 anyone early, has infinite sustain, very undderated ganks, and superb dragon control. The reason people think he sucks is because no one has bothered to try to adjust their build to not getting as much gold as solo top so he ends up useless the whole game long. Hence why you need to get bruiser items on him and not health items. i've always agreed with yango when he says that olaf's issues revolve around not getting lane farm (which he needs) because you have 3 other carries trying to farm them. If pseudo-support mids start becoming popular again (they've had short bursts of popularity in zil and ori) olaf will be an incredibly strong pick. I dont buy this argument at all actually. The majority of your farm comes from your early game jungling. If you are efficient, you will be able to carry an item advantage into the midgame fights where, if you live, you pick up gold. Lanes are the same way- the majority of their farm comes from early laning, then late game it comes from teamfights. The lane gold post midgame just goes to whoever is closest to their next big item. Not to mention the vast majority of lane farm ends up being lost to minions anyway because most of the time you cant afford to be split apart anyway. But if you looked at a graph of gold from minions over game time, Im 99% sure that thing would drop of significantly the longer the game went for every role. But if you look at it, GP is considered a strong pick and he isnt any less farm dependent than olaf is. The real problem is people refuse to adjust their builds for the income they get. Why is it acceptable for GP to rush triforce when he is SQUISHIER than Olaf is? It makes no sense, but people get wierd assumptions about what champion builds need to look like. but gp is less dependant on items than olaf is. If worst comes to worst and gp has 0 farm, he can still grab reverie and become an aurabot, and be reasonably effective as a peeler (hence why support gp is actually not terribad). Olaf is 100% an offensive champion, and i see minimal amounts of utility on him, so naturally he needs farm to be effective (imo). Granted, you only need to hit the breakpoint of items necessary to chase off a ranged AD to have just 'done your job', and you may be able to do that with just jungle farm, but i wouldn't feel comfortable trying to rely on that gold pool to get something done. re: lategame farming, wtf, creeping is incredibly important at end game, i dunno what to even say to that. edit: it also doesn't help that you're expected to cede blues to mid lane, which reduces your jungle speed. We arent talking about worst coming to worst. We are talking about GP with Triforce being considered one of the strongest characters in the game, but olaf with the same item somehow one of the weakest. Olaf carries it just as well because he can proc sheen very easily, is inherently tankier with it, and makes use of every stat (well, apart from ap). Not to mention that nearly every other jungle in the game has less inherent tank than Olaf, yet they are able to make due with the gold pool from jungle. I just chalk it up to the (mistaken) notion that Olaf somehow needs MORE than everyone else when he actually needs LESS. Late game farm is important, yes, but not for an individual. It is more important that SOMEONE on your team gets it just so that it doesnt go to waste. It doesnt matter who, hence it typically goes to whoever is closest to their next big item. But by that point you ARE WHO YOU ARE. A 150 gold wave (a very large creep wave) will not make you unkillable. Jungles ride their early game, and olaf has one of the best. Once agian, it comes back to the mistaken idea that Olaf needs more than others. He doesnt, and even if he did, he has the means to get it, being one of the fastest jungles in the game. And ya, not having blue does kind of suck. But wriggles+an axe on any camp will clear faster than everyone not named shyvana, udyr, or mundo. 2 axes clears faster, if you can spare the mana. @ Seuss- But even look at CLG. Their laning phase lasts longer, sure, but the only champ that really gets late game farm is double, and even then most of the time its him farming when he should be somewhere else. The only time it ever gets siphoned is when someone activly says "I need this." Or when Hotshot just takes it.
The GP/Olaf comparison is rather weird. As champions they play very differently, so it's not particularly odd for one to be considered strong with a given item while the other might be considered weak. Moreover I think you're overstating Olaf's inherent tank. A lot of common junglers have equivalent or better base stats and scaling (Gangplank, Shyvana, Skarner, and Warwick just to name a few). He's not significantly tankier than a lot of his fellow junglers even once you factor in abilities and the like.
On a similar note I think you're overestimating the gold value of the jungle. You can farm more gold out of the jungle than before, but the value isn't so high that farm dependent junglers can farm exclusively off the jungle. You need to cover lanes and/or successfully gank if you really want to have enough gold. If you rely entirely on jungle gold it will take until roughly the 22nd minute of the game to farm Trinity Force + Boots 2, and you're skipping Wriggle's to do it. You can plan a team around your jungler covering lanes for farm, but it's not something you can just assume.
Regarding late game farm 150g isn't the value of very large creep wave, that's the value of a normal wave at 25 minutes. Large waves in the mid-late game are easily worth 300-400g, often more. 40 minutes in a cannon minion wave will actually be worth 250g. I don't have a greater point for this one, I just couldn't let such an erroneous figure go uncorrected.
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Does the ranked 5s ladder take a long time to update? I've been watching some guys streaming ranked, but their team is still nowhere to be found on the ladder.
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On February 28 2012 00:21 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 00:12 barbsq wrote:On February 27 2012 23:52 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 27 2012 23:43 ManyCookies wrote:
Some people DO play Normals, you know. Oi. I do play normals. I just either use them to learn stuff (and fail badly) or to troll (and fail badly). There IS a reason Im the only 1700+ player with a 50-50 win ratio in normals. Oh and Sobek- Olaf's jungle is REALLY fucking good. He has the fastest clear in the game ATM (seriously. 8 minute wriggles and boots is SLOW for him) can 1v1 anyone early, has infinite sustain, very undderated ganks, and superb dragon control. The reason people think he sucks is because no one has bothered to try to adjust their build to not getting as much gold as solo top so he ends up useless the whole game long. Hence why you need to get bruiser items on him and not health items. i've always agreed with yango when he says that olaf's issues revolve around not getting lane farm (which he needs) because you have 3 other carries trying to farm them. If pseudo-support mids start becoming popular again (they've had short bursts of popularity in zil and ori) olaf will be an incredibly strong pick. I dont buy this argument at all actually. The majority of your farm comes from your early game jungling. If you are efficient, you will be able to carry an item advantage into the midgame fights where, if you live, you pick up gold.Lanes are the same way- the majority of their farm comes from early laning, then late game it comes from teamfights. The lane gold post midgame just goes to whoever is closest to their next big item. Not to mention the vast majority of lane farm ends up being lost to minions anyway because most of the time you cant afford to be split apart anyway.But if you looked at a graph of gold from minions over game time, Im 99% sure that thing would drop of significantly the longer the game went for every role. But if you look at it, GP is considered a strong pick and he isnt any less farm dependent than olaf is. The real problem is people refuse to adjust their builds for the income they get. Why is it acceptable for GP to rush triforce when he is SQUISHIER than Olaf is? It makes no sense, but people get wierd assumptions about what champion builds need to look like.
what is that first part? if you are efficient, you will be able to carry an item advantage? you can also get that from successful ganks, holding lanes while your laners gank (good for olaf as his ganks are usually inferior to most AP's unless your laners have great setup cc), or grabbing objectives. olaf's ganks are fairly weak, he has good early jungle, but the amount of farm you can grab from the jungle is capped even with olaf's great clear speed - and he needs more than the cap to play like how he is strongest - able to stick on high value targets and pound on them nonstop
2nd - agreed for team sieges and the like. but most games if both sides are fairly close you should be able to farm lanes while objectives are down or with any creep clearing power should also be able to hold outer towers with 4 while someone valuable grabs farm for a decent period of time, at least until said carry has had 2-3 items. obv later the game goes the less this is the scenario minus the times when you have a dedicated splitpusher, but even then there are times when pushing out other lanes is extremely valuable and playable as long as your team plays very defensively / has strong peel
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On February 28 2012 02:56 Navi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 00:21 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 28 2012 00:12 barbsq wrote:On February 27 2012 23:52 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 27 2012 23:43 ManyCookies wrote:
Some people DO play Normals, you know. Oi. I do play normals. I just either use them to learn stuff (and fail badly) or to troll (and fail badly). There IS a reason Im the only 1700+ player with a 50-50 win ratio in normals. Oh and Sobek- Olaf's jungle is REALLY fucking good. He has the fastest clear in the game ATM (seriously. 8 minute wriggles and boots is SLOW for him) can 1v1 anyone early, has infinite sustain, very undderated ganks, and superb dragon control. The reason people think he sucks is because no one has bothered to try to adjust their build to not getting as much gold as solo top so he ends up useless the whole game long. Hence why you need to get bruiser items on him and not health items. i've always agreed with yango when he says that olaf's issues revolve around not getting lane farm (which he needs) because you have 3 other carries trying to farm them. If pseudo-support mids start becoming popular again (they've had short bursts of popularity in zil and ori) olaf will be an incredibly strong pick. I dont buy this argument at all actually. The majority of your farm comes from your early game jungling. If you are efficient, you will be able to carry an item advantage into the midgame fights where, if you live, you pick up gold.Lanes are the same way- the majority of their farm comes from early laning, then late game it comes from teamfights. The lane gold post midgame just goes to whoever is closest to their next big item. Not to mention the vast majority of lane farm ends up being lost to minions anyway because most of the time you cant afford to be split apart anyway.But if you looked at a graph of gold from minions over game time, Im 99% sure that thing would drop of significantly the longer the game went for every role. But if you look at it, GP is considered a strong pick and he isnt any less farm dependent than olaf is. The real problem is people refuse to adjust their builds for the income they get. Why is it acceptable for GP to rush triforce when he is SQUISHIER than Olaf is? It makes no sense, but people get wierd assumptions about what champion builds need to look like. what is that first part? if you are efficient, you will be able to carry an item advantage? you can also get that from successful ganks, holding lanes while your laners gank (good for olaf as his ganks are usually inferior to most AP's unless your laners have great setup cc), or grabbing objectives. olaf's ganks are fairly weak, he has good early jungle, but the amount of farm you can grab from the jungle is capped even with olaf's great clear speed - and he needs more than the cap to play like how he is strongest - able to stick on high value targets and pound on them nonstop 2nd - agreed for team sieges and the like. but most games if both sides are fairly close you should be able to farm lanes while objectives are down or with any creep clearing power should also be able to hold outer towers with 4 while someone valuable grabs farm for a decent period of time, at least until said carry has had 2-3 items. obv later the game goes the less this is the scenario minus the times when you have a dedicated splitpusher, but even then there are times when pushing out other lanes is extremely valuable and playable as long as your team plays very defensively / has strong peel
The term "efficiency" in the jungle, for me, is basically a combination of what you said and farming effectivly. The key in jungle is to maximize your farm with the minimum amount of time. That can be done any number of ways, through ganks, holding lanes, or just afk farming jungle, but usually through some combination of the above. Basically, the more "efficient" you are at doing all three things while minimizing the downtime between, the better off you will be.
I dunno, the concept makes sense to me. I guess I never exactly explained what that term meant in the forum before I started to use it.
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It seems like people are talking about jungle olaf...
However I think his ganks are bad and he's extremely item-dependent so I'd instead place him solo top in order for him to get enough items for him to really shine. I don't think that jungle is the right place for him to be. He also is able to dominate some opponents in the toplane extremely easily.
After these changes his item build seems to scream "max cdr with as much hp as possible" which is a bit annoying as you kind of need a frozen heart and then... Spirit Visage?
In my opinion they really need to make an item for tanks that gives no mana and gives a lot of CDR, I think it's really dumb that there really is no good defensive CDR items for manaless bruisers like Renekton or Tryndamere.
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Holy shit, I just tried Fizz for 4 games. HE IS AMAZING! I haven't had this much fun forever, that freaking dodge is on like a 4 second CD, insane burst and great mobility.
Really sweet, It just sucks that I'd be really reluctant to play him in ranked against anyone good, just seems like laning vs a ranged mid who played conservatively without a serious jungle support would be a nightmare. I didnt realize how absurd his damage is, its like far better than akali.
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On February 28 2012 01:45 Sven Stryker wrote:
According to the tooltip, if you use the Trickster part of Playful/Trickster, you can move but lose the slow.
it applies a slow, but the slow from playful is stronger
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EPT
