EPTHe's an amateur compared to the other guys in the post, except for minigun.
SC2 Balance Changes: Pros' Impressions - Page 14
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pigmanbear
Angola2010 Posts
He's an amateur compared to the other guys in the post, except for minigun. | ||
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Kyselin
France35 Posts
He's an amateur compared to the other guys in the post, except for minigun. Then you have to reconsider your definition of a pro, because he is a professional. | ||
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jamesapjoyce
61 Posts
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pigmanbear
Angola2010 Posts
On February 03 2014 08:17 Kyselin wrote: Then you have to reconsider your definition of a pro, because he is a professional. The other guys are out of a job if they don't win at the highest level. It's like comparing a top prospect in AA with an MLB pro. They both play baseball for a living but whose opinion do you care about more? | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On February 03 2014 07:22 Whitewing wrote: I can't remember the last time I let my opponent into my base after I chased the first probe out to scout what I was doing, or the last time I got a unit into their base to scout before hallucination was ready. The stalker and MSC easily denies a follow up probe or zealot scout, and whenever I see a zealot scout, I usually cheer because it's a free zealot kill. Well, I can remember the last time I couldn't get my zealot into one's base, against elfi, because it was such an oddity. A while ago... Not only do I get a scout of what they're doing, I often times kill 1-2 probes. I couldn't care less about losing a zealot, if I get the scouting advantage or simply know what they're doing. When I get a faster nexus than you or realize how to abuse what you're doing, you might not be so cheerful about a meaningless zealot kill. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On February 03 2014 03:11 stuchiu wrote: Protoss is still deathballing after the patch =O They could add 50 bastardized, inbred cousins to the oracle and give them all 8.5 move speed. It's not going to make protoss stop deathballing. How anyone thought that giving protoss some random harass units would break up the deathball is beyond me, there is nothing in the addition of the oracle that works to change how protoss plays late game at all. It does not change that colossi, templars, immortals, tempests, void rays, i.e. every big scary gas unit, needs to be in a big blob to be effective. If you want to break up the deathball, you have to attack its constituent parts, not add new ones that don't fit in it. That will just lead to them being unused, or in the case of the oracle, used in the early/mid game and then discarded precisely because they have no real place in the deathball. Some really ass backwards logic went into this kind of thinking. | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
so please, for the love of god blizzard, for once listen to the community and the pros. This is what you need to do: TvP: Nerf the msc vision to 11 like every other air unit in the game. Nerf the PO range slightly and/or increase the energy cost and/or reduce casting range as per miniguns suggestion, but keep its 60sec duration as that only truly affects pvp. Increase timewarp cost Instead of removing yet another upgrade (ghost), reduce the cost of the armory. Its virtually the same cost-reduction for terran regardless, but one actually helps mech. Please dont pretend to buff mech by buffing bio. You have no credibility in that department anymore, not after years and years of promising to make mech viable. Remove the biotag from the hellbat. It makes zero sense to have a mechanical unit become a biounit just because it transforms. The ability of being healed is part of what made hellbat op in drops in the first place and at the same time makes them shit against archons. Merge transformation servos and blueflame into one upgrade. Possibly with a longer upgradetime. Things worth to consider but not to be done right now: give tanks an upgrade that lets them attack shield more effectively. Basically "EMP Shells". PvZ: The problem isnt lategame tempests, the problem is the swarmhost! Some pros have suggested removing the enduring locust upgrade and instead let the swarmhost be faster both with burrowing/unborrowing and when moving around on the map. This could be either as an upgrade or as a fundamental change to the unit. Basically reward multitasking with swarmhosts instead of the boring, long, drawn out static play we're seeing. Others have more very good suggestions on how to improve the swarmhost and there are many possible ways to do so; please consider looking at the swarmhost instead of yet another bandaid with tempest. Consider removing the tempest entirely and make the carrier into more of a bw-carrier where micro is possible. The tempest is a truly wonky unit that makes very little sense intuitively with its minimal damage to everything but massive, and having air units with such range is terrible design as air units dont really interact with the map in the first place (they only do so transitively by interacting with counters on the ground) and long range reduces that even further. This is wishful thinking on my part as I know youre never going to do this and most likely dont even care what anyone posts here but hey, doesnt hurt to try I guess... TvZ: Buff the radius of vipers blinding cloud but instead of nullifying range under it let it reduce range by a set number (as in reduce every units range by x, not reduce every units range to x). That way blinding cloud is less of a hard counter to mech and becomes more viable vs bio. Consider nerfing ravens slightly in conjunction with proposed swarmhost changes. That in conjunction with changes to viper will result in less risk of turtle-terrans. | ||
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
On February 03 2014 06:56 Faust852 wrote: He just got his lucky time, helped by a metagame that might have help him a shit ton. Blink allin good strat yo. I'm not saying Avilo is good or desrow is bad. They had the same level few weeks ago, and I still think they have a similar level. Just look at the ladder and see how close they are to each other. Plus i'm not the one who discredited Avilo saying "he should shut up and play", it's desrow's saying. I've never lost to avilo in tournaments and I think I dropped a game or 2 out of 10+ on ladder in the past 6 months. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 03 2014 08:10 pigmanbear wrote: He's an amateur compared to the other guys in the post, except for minigun. Wait, he is in premier league, I think he broke through that glass ceiling. | ||
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Penguinator
United States837 Posts
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
On February 03 2014 09:23 Penguinator wrote: So they asked 4 Protoss, 4 Terrans, and 1 Zerg about the patch?... Uhhh you don't think that maybe the answers will be a little bit biased towards Protoss and Terran with those numbers? Either way, I like most of the changes except for the Hydra and Tempest buff. I think they need to change something else for Z and P besides those things. They probably asked more people but these are the ones who chose to respond. Just my guess. | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On February 03 2014 09:23 Penguinator wrote: So they asked 4 Protoss, 4 Terrans, and 1 Zerg about the patch?... Uhhh you don't think that maybe the answers will be a little bit biased towards Protoss and Terran with those numbers? Either way, I like most of the changes except for the Hydra and Tempest buff. I think they need to change something else for Z and P besides those things. We asked way more people. These are just the ones that were willing to put their opinion out for the community, which, as shown by this thread, isn't immediate and easy. | ||
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Penguinator
United States837 Posts
On February 03 2014 08:10 pigmanbear wrote: He's an amateur compared to the other guys in the post, except for minigun. Minigun and Desrow are both in WCS Premier League, soooo yeah... I don't think you know what the words "amateur" and "professional" mean. | ||
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Pino
1032 Posts
On February 03 2014 08:31 Squat wrote: They could add 50 bastardized, inbred cousins to the oracle and give them all 8.5 move speed. It's not going to make protoss stop deathballing. How anyone thought that giving protoss some random harass units would break up the deathball is beyond me, there is nothing in the addition of the oracle that works to change how protoss plays late game at all. It does not change that colossi, templars, immortals, tempests, void rays, i.e. every big scary gas unit, needs to be in a big blob to be effective. If you want to break up the deathball, you have to attack its constituent parts, not add new ones that don't fit in it. That will just lead to them being unused, or in the case of the oracle, used in the early/mid game and then discarded precisely because they have no real place in the deathball. Some really ass backwards logic went into this kind of thinking. This is precisely on spot, like the best comment in this thread. To me the problems is deeper, and the real discussion should not lie in balance but in design. I hope one day blizzard has the balls to redesign protosses. Like remove FF, redesign WG to keep a defender's advantage, buff gateway units and let them be effective by themselves, with a synergy boost from higher tech units (in this case nerfing them), just like medivacs are for bio, mutas for ling/bane and so on. All these buffs, like MSC addition, oracle speed etc. looks like bandaids. After so many of them, you gotta see there's something wrong with the design. | ||
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
e: On February 03 2014 09:35 Pino wrote: This is precisely on spot, like the best comment in this thread. To me the problems is deeper, and the real discussion should not lie in balance but in design. I hope one day blizzard has the balls to redesign protosses. Like remove FF, redesign WG to keep a defender's advantage, buff gateway units and let them be effective by themselves, with a synergy boost from higher tech units (in this case nerfing them, just like medivacs are for bio), mutas for ling/bane and so on. All these buffs, like MSC addition, oracle speed etc. looks like bandaids. After so many of them, you gotta see there's something wrong with the design. After so many times, I wonder when the "design whine" will stop. it's really annoying. | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On February 03 2014 09:37 Hryul wrote: thanks for the effort tl. really nice to see some opinions on it. e: After so many times, I wonder when the "design whine" will stop. it's really annoying. Who's whining, I was giving my take on why units like oracles will never accomplish what they were intended for. I've long since given up on having real changes to this game. | ||
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Eliezar
United States481 Posts
There are definitely a few things that are out of whack in the current game and some of the patch changes are weird. I wouldn't think any pro would think the hydra change is realistic. I still don't like the ghost cost change either. | ||
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On February 03 2014 09:37 Hryul wrote: thanks for the effort tl. really nice to see some opinions on it. e: After so many times, I wonder when the "design whine" will stop. it's really annoying. The design whine will stop as soon as LotV comes out. Either they will fix the issues (really though, don't you people at least see that FF limit the map design, if nothing else?) or they won't and in that case all hope for those people will be lost and they will either come to a peace with the game or quit it. (What I would like to add is, even community figures are not really satisfied with some design issues - for example TB, Destiny, Kennigit and others blatantly spoke about it on talk shows in the past weeks, while ex-BW pros like Idra, Nony, TT1, Lalush etc were pointing towards them from day1). | ||
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Wraithdagger12
United States4 Posts
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