Since the TSL is an online-only tournament, how does TL make sure that the players receive no help during matches. What's stopping players from having a friend constantly stare at the minimap to have instant reactions to drops and harrassments while another friend watches out for supply blocks and building/research mistakes? Even the top Code S players have made those types of mistakes in high-pressure situations, which are easily preventable with extra sets of eyes. With a prize pool of $35k and no chance of getting caught, wouldn't some players try to cheat this way?

Oiseaux

United States676 Posts

September 08 2012 19:04 GMT

I really don't know what type of answer you're expecting to get that would assuage your concern (i.e. it sounds like you're fishing for drama).

FreudianTrip

Switzerland1983 Posts

September 08 2012 19:11 GMT

On September 09 2012 03:52 iarekorea wrote:
Since the TSL is an online-only tournament, how does TL make sure that the players receive no help during matches. What's stopping players from having a friend constantly stare at the minimap to have instant reactions to drops and harrassments while another friend watches out for supply blocks and building/research mistakes? Even the top Code S players have made those types of mistakes in high-pressure situations, which are easily preventable with extra sets of eyes. With a prize pool of $35k and no chance of getting caught, wouldn't some players try to cheat this way?

It's casted from replays...

Oh I see you mean someone staring over his shoulders. Yeah, still dumb.

GiantRobot

Germany9 Posts

September 08 2012 19:31 GMT

I think it wouldn´t help you at all if someone said "Look, there are units by the watchtower". It´s way faster if you do it by yourself, and I´m sure it´s distracting when someone stands near you.

iarekorea

United States11 Posts

September 08 2012 19:42 GMT

why is it dumb? are you saying you do not gain an advantage by doing that? is a few extra thousand dollars not worth the trouble? or do top players never miss that tiny blip on the minimap of a medivac passing by the edge of the vision of the spotting pylon? or never forget a depot or forget to research stim or make an extra robo instead of a robo bay?

sorrowptoss

Canada1431 Posts

September 08 2012 19:48 GMT

Ok. You got it all wrong.

1: The matches of the TSL are custom games, so not anyone is invited to the game. Probably just the two players + 1 or 2 admins of the TSL.
2: The matches are casters from replays.
3: With that calibre of skill, there is also a calibre of maturity. SC2 is a game that is special because it involves mannerism. If people don't manner up, they aren't playing SC2 fully.
4: Similar to 3, TSL players are adults. They play fair and square. Besides, what fun/pride is there from winning a game thanks to your friend?

iarekorea

United States11 Posts

September 08 2012 20:17 GMT

1: The matches of the TSL are custom games, so not anyone is invited to the game. Probably just the two players + 1 or 2 admins of the TSL.

i guess i wasn't very clear. i didnt mean to invite your friends in-game to watch you play online but to get them to come to your house and watch you live in person.

3: With that calibre of skill, there is also a calibre of maturity. SC2 is a game that is special because it involves mannerism. If people don't manner up, they aren't playing SC2 fully.
4: Similar to 3, TSL players are adults. They play fair and square. Besides, what fun/pride is there from winning a game thanks to your friend?

all of that may be true for some random online cup with a $200 prize pool, but for a $35k prize pool and a possible fat contract by one of those big-spending corporate proteams, fun and manner can take a backseat.

reesTHEman

United States11 Posts

September 08 2012 20:26 GMT

I think the OP raises a legitimate question/concern ITT. Although I don't think there is a definitive solution/answer, the amount of help/coaching a player could potentially receive live and on the fly while playing is probably inconsistent at best. As was already mentioned I think that something along these lines could easily hinder if not disrupt the concentration of a player to the point where it is absolutely not worth it. What I'm trying to say is that having someone over your shoulder helping you could easily hurt as much as it helps and therefore is not necessarily clear-cut to be an advantage. I think this needs more discussion/research to be conclusive.

DKR

United Kingdom622 Posts

September 08 2012 20:32 GMT

On September 09 2012 04:48 sorrowptoss wrote:
3: With that calibre of skill, there is also a calibre of maturity. SC2 is a game that is special because it involves mannerism. If people don't manner up, they aren't playing SC2 fully.
4: Similar to 3, TSL players are adults. They play fair and square. Besides, what fun/pride is there from winning a game thanks to your friend?

Dimaga and a couple of others cheated in TSL2

MrF

United States320 Posts

September 08 2012 20:57 GMT

#10

1st what you mention isnt really cheating because it doesnt give you an advantage that you cant have by just being observant of your own game
2nd both parties could do this so its not really an unfair advantage
3rd as above post said its not really helpful to have someone standing next to you talking to you during a game in fact it can be distracting and make you play worse.
but yeah it could happen

Doubting

Canada981 Posts

September 08 2012 21:25 GMT

#11

op is stupid. Someone talking to you about the game doesn't help, its just distracting. I bet the team mates are being as quiet as possible to let them concentrate.

SigmaoctanusIV

United States3313 Posts

September 08 2012 21:30 GMT

#12

On September 09 2012 04:48 sorrowptoss wrote:
Ok. You got it all wrong.

1: The matches of the TSL are custom games, so not anyone is invited to the game. Probably just the two players + 1 or 2 admins of the TSL.
2: The matches are casters from replays.
3: With that calibre of skill, there is also a calibre of maturity. SC2 is a game that is special because it involves mannerism. If people don't manner up, they aren't playing SC2 fully.
4: Similar to 3, TSL players are adults. They play fair and square. Besides, what fun/pride is there from winning a game thanks to your friend?

3 and 4 Couldn't be more Wrong Look up Match fixing scandals for BW and there are so many other occasions of Players cheating TSL is pretty cheat proof for stream cheating but most other online tournaments are not the same. Also it's extremely difficult to prove stream cheating.

IcookTacos

Sweden295 Posts

September 08 2012 21:34 GMT

#13

I can tell OP isn't out of bronze yet because he don't seem to realize how much more is going on in a game than just drops and supply blocks. You can't really gain an game changing advantage by having someone staring at your minimap. The supply block argument is even more silly for very obvious reasons.

User was warned for this post

Warpath

Canada1242 Posts

September 08 2012 22:07 GMT

#14

Having someone look at the minimap for you is actually significantly slower then having a friend even show 'main!' 'nat!'

And the cheating in TSL2 was mainly abusing ladder system for ranking (to qualify)
and possibly straight up map hacking.

Whatson

United States5357 Posts

September 08 2012 22:10 GMT

#15

Pros are good enough that the moment a friend or coach or whatever notices something, the player will notice it too. They're also knowledgeable enough to know what kind of reactions to make to create the optimal results. The only way you could cheat is if you have an observer from your team in the game (which is impossible due to TSL4 rules) that gives you all the information about your opponent's actions.

TeeTS

Germany2762 Posts

September 08 2012 22:25 GMT

#16

At this point of skill it will be much more disturbing when some interrupts you in your patterns, than helpful to point something out, that you might know anyway.
So Yeah, there could be maphack, but seeing every participating player as a proven live performer, this can't be meant seriously.

iarekorea

United States11 Posts

September 08 2012 22:48 GMT

#17

op is stupid. Someone talking to you about the game doesn't help, its just distracting. I bet the team mates are being as quiet as possible to let them concentrate.

i'm not saying you should have someone arguing with you about your in-game decisions or your army composition or any matter related to your choice of strategy. i'm talking about just an extra set of eyes to spot things you might have missed. think of it as an insurance policy against you making a silly mistake that will cost you the game. in a perfect world where you make no such mistakes the entire game, your help wouldn't have to say a thing.

yes, having someone watch you won't make a masters league player all of a sudden start beating code s koreans, but are you saying it gives you no advantage whatsoever? how many times have u seen a pro gamer react to a storm drop a second too late and lose all his drones? or someone get supply-blocked right before a big battle and lose a battle they could have won if they had a few more units? just last week in the gsl we saw + Show Spoiler +

MC lose because he made a 2nd robo instead of a robo bay.

o0StatiK

United States10 Posts

September 08 2012 23:41 GMT

#18

I understand what you're trying to ask but that wouldn't really help.

I get coached by a friend frequently, but I find it extremely distracting to have him going 'OKAY PLACE A PYLON HERE, NO NOT THERE, HERE. NO NOT THERE'. 'DUDE MACRO, MACRO!'

towards the end of the session I want to punch him right in the penis.

While it can be done, the person who's hovering over you don't know their build either.

Gamegene

United States8308 Posts

September 09 2012 00:06 GMT

#19

at least against their fellow countrymen, koreans have too much respect and trust for one another for them to break it.

nearly every korean pro gamer have interacted once or twice throughout their entire careers especially as rookies.