TSL3 Round of 32 Day 2 Recap by heyoka and Lovedrop
Today we were joined by Husky and djWheat for the second day of TSL's opening weekend. Once again it didn't disappoint, bringing us four action packed matches, even including a PvP that was long and entertaining! Team Liquid's TSL writing staff is here to bring you the recaps, as well as winner interviews.
Our reigning GSL champion opens standard, while Ciara grabs his gas only after his pool first opening is half done. Therefore, zergling speed is delayed a little bit. MC chrono-boosted out 2 zealots and rallies them across the map towards Ciara’s natural. After taking care of the pesky zergling running around his base, MC brings 2 stalkers to catch up with his zealots and adds two additional gateways. The proxy pylon is already in place, and Ciara oddly sends all his zerglings to the opposite Xel’Naga Tower.
The battle occurs near Ciara’s potential third, 23 zerglings vs. 5 zealots 3 stalkers. MC micros his stalkers and dances them around the zealots, losing 0 units while all the zerglings eat the full brunt of psi blades. MC warps in 3 more zealots, moves into the natural, cut down more drones, warps in 3 more zealots before Ciara abruptly leaves the game. [7:37]
Ciara once again prefers to go pool first with no speed into expansion, while MC opting to forge fast expand himself. MC delays the assimilators at his natural, and drop down a stargate, but his stalker was unable to deny the scouting drone that key piece of information. In response, Ciara techs to lair and start an evolution chamber, also grabbing a third at the top right expansion.
Void rays are making their way over to Ciara’s natural. The first two void rays are too much for Ciara’s queens to handle, and the void rays are free to hunt overlords while 2 more queens and 8 hydralisks are on the way. Before the hydras are able to take care of the void rays, MC takes out several overlords and put Ciara deep in the red.
MC takes his third as Ciara gets his fourth, and while Ciara has a near maxed army, MC has 10 sentries all with 150+ energy. Ciara is reluctant to engage, but finally decides to right outside MC’s natural. The force fields deny hydralisk participation in the battle, and even with 23 roaches waiting in the wing, the supply is not even. Even the continuous production of roaches cannot stop MC’s army, and once all the drones have been roasted at Ciara’s natural, so has Ciara’s TSL dreams. [18:46]
The cross position game on Metalopolis began normally, 1 barracks cc with reaper for Loner and expansion off zealot, sentry for White-Ra. As the two expansions begin running, White-Ra makes a forward pylon and amasses a sentry-zealot force to harass Loner. Meanwhile Terran hides a Ghost Academy and begins producing. Loner holds the first attack by sacrificing many of his SCVs, but despite losing a large number of workers he is still in a strong position as his army is largely untouched.
He moves out after a round of production and gets to the Protoss natural before the first colossus, easily taking on the zealot stalker army and killing the nexus. White-Ra is able to stall the inevitable by dancing waiting for a second colossus and dancing them up and down the ramp, but in time is forced to GG.[13:03]
White-Ra begins with a 3 gateway sentry expand, while Loner chooses to tech straight to starport and make hellions to drop before expanding. The drop causes minor annoyance, disrupting mining and killing some probes but does not do a ton. As Loner takes his expansion, White-Ra makes a third nexus. Loner chooses to also take his third, right as he scans and sees colossus being produced in the Protoss base. In pure macro mode, Loner is amassing vikings from 2 starports and White-Ra goes up to 2 robos and 6 gates while adding double forge.
White-Ra is maxed and moments away from 2-2 when Loner engages, not even a good emp can save the Terran army. The now blinking, charging 2-2 force barrels through and on to green pastures (Terran's base). Loner taps out. [18:55]
The game starts with a 3 sentry expand from Protoss, while Terran chooses a command center after reaper. Loner quickly makes a starport, but his first drop attempt is thwarted relatively easy. The second pass does more, killing a few stalkers and annoying probes slightly. White-Ra begins colossus production while Loner pumps vikings from his starports.
White-Ra then moves straight into double forge upgrades, Loner brings his army into the middle of the map while making a third command center but reuses to attack. Minutes pass while the Terran army sits idle for the entire duration of the command center's construction, allowing Protoss to research blink, charge, and finish 2-2 before saturating its third base.
It was here that Loner decided to attack, long past his timing window. While the armies suffer nearly even loses, the blinking stalkers are able to continually get good angles and chase down stray vikings and medivacs. As each player takes a fourth base, White-Ra kills a dropship before it can unload and morphs archons for the next battle. Both players max armies again, and the protoss ones again comes out on top, his upgrades simply too much for Terran to handle. When he reaches Loner's natural it is over and Loner signals with a GG. [23:36]
Huk begins the match with an emphatic "OMG", while getting a 13 gateway, to HasuOb's faster 12 gate 16 core. Not to be deterred Huk continued right on his way towards a 4 gate, though one slightly late. The two scuffle a bit mid map, Hasu eventually settling on a position on his ramp with 3 gateways while Huk gathers forces and pylons below. The first confrontation goes wonderfully for Hasu, he splits Huk's army with a forcefield and is left with a handful of stalkers to 2.
Huk packs it up and goes home, adding a robo, robo bay and an immortal to his army while Hasu adds twilight council and researches blink as his robo builds. After adding a robo bay, Hasu makes a nexus and picks off 3 free stalkers wandering about the map. Huk is forced into a do or die situation, and travels with his first 2 colossus to Hasu's natural where he fights valiantly. Unfortunately it is not enough, as Hasu's expansion has begun to kick in and he is reduced to nothing while staring down Hasu's still in tact forces. [15:48]
Huk opened this game with 3 gate robo, while HasuObs made 3 gates and then warped in a twilight council for blink. Huk constructs an immortal even before an observer, and both players begin making pylons around the map. As blink finishes, Hasu takes a peek up Huk's ramp and is forced to blink away when he spots 2 immortals guarding it. Huk chases, but is unable to pin them down in the wide open center of the map.
The casters made comments about playing the Benny Hill theme, which seems appropriate as the game enters a prolonged stage where each player is winding around the map endlessly. Huk gets the better of it several times as he is able to pick off single stalkers before they are able to blink away.
Huk, now armed with 5 stalkers, takes advantage of his superior army and expands. Huk decides to as well, warping in a huge number of zealots making Huk unable to pressure him. Both players add in colossus to he mix, preparing for a large late game confrontation. Huk adds a second robo while Hasu takes his third base, as it finishes Huk moves in to force a battle. Huk's superior colossus numbers prevail, and its off to game 3. [20:08]
The match begins with something tricky going on, as HasuObs has his scouting probe being chased by a zealot in Huk's base he sneaks in a second and hides it in a corner. The plan soon becomes clear, as he brings his gateway number up to 4. Huk, meanwhile, is content with 3 gateways and a robotics.
Huk prepares sentries to hold his ramp, completely unaware of the pylon the hidden probe has built. Hasu begins warping in units and is sure to keep them out of sight, after a few rounds it is time for him to show his plan.
As the sentry patiently waits to forcefield his ramp, Hasu waltzes up behind him and engages. Huk's immortal is not even halfway done, he has no choice but to GG and leave the game. [6:51]
Morrow opens hatch first, while Jinro skips gas AND barracks to go 15CC. Afterward, Jinro looks to block off the choke with three barracks. With two orbital commands running, Jinro is constantly pumping out marines and looks to tech up with 2 refineries. Morrow gets ready for a high econ baneling bust, and Jinro’s wall while is thick, the tech lab on the outside is extremely vulnerable. Jinro has not even started a tech lab on his factory for siege tanks, and no bunkers are in sight.
15 banelings crash into the barracks wall, nearly destroy all three thanks to splash damage. Jinro smartly lifts the burning buildings to retain his production facilities, but there are just too many zerglings for Jinro to hold and Morrow catches Jinro off-guard and take a quick game 1. [8:47]
Jinro goes double barracks before gas, looking to punish Morrow for going hatch first. Positioning his bunker so that his marine is safe from attack, Morrow loses 4 drones before he realizes he cannot take down the bunker without zerglings. The bunker gets up and 4 marines hop in, forcing the cancellation of the forward spine crawler. Morrow then moves another spine crawler forward but it gets taken out before it can root itself to be useful. The bunker remains a nuisance to Morrow, and he is finally able to take care of it after losing 950 resources worth of units.
Back at home, Jinro is ready to expand and uses his barracks and a bunker to wall off the far side of his main’s entrance. Jinro moves out to the Xel’Naga watchtower, but the sight of zerglings streaming in prompt him to quickly turn around and prepare for another possible baneling bust. The banelings ram into Jinro’s makeshift supply depot wall but the narrow choke denies a zergling surround and Morrow has no choice but to retreat.
Jinro loads up two medivacs heading in opposite directions, one aiming for the natural and the other for the main. Morrow expands to the gold and adds an additional hatchery in his main. Jinro’s drops pick off overlords and zerglings but do not deal any significant economic damage to Morrow. Jinro himself is ready to expand to the gold. Even though he’s ahead in supply, Jinro takes a risk and grabs the gold before siege mode is finished. As siege mode finishes, Jinro moves up to the watchtower but Morrow engages before the tanks could be sieged. Morrow easily swallows up the tank with the zergling wave and thankfully for his miracle marine spread, Jinro is able to minimize the damage and holds on.
Jinro looks to counter push but his low siege tank count forces the medivacs to pick up and drop the marines atop the ledge in the middle. A pack of 5 marines try their best to focus down Morrow’s 4th base, but they fall 8 HP short of a successful snipe. The tank placement atop the ledge makes it difficult for units to swing back and forth between the two bases. Morrow swings around the middle and takes out the planetary fortress before Jinro can pull back in time. Thankfully, he already has another CC on the way.
Jinro does not forget about the hatchery and takes it down with ease. Morrow tries to break the mini contain, but banelings are blown up by siege tanks before they can take care of 1/1 marines. With his gold under siege, Morrow makes a last ditch effort to break Jinro but does not do enough damage and is forced to tap out. [21:25]
Both players expand at 15 food. Jinro techs up a bit slower this time, grabbing only one gas in favor of a more fortified wall. Morrow gets ready for another hi-econ baneling bust, once again stopping all drone production.
With the barracks in production, Jinro is unable to lift the buildings in time and loses two to the baneling splash. The bunker is not yet complete so he is forced to pull SCVs. Three more banelings crawl their way right in the middle of the SCV ball and in one explosion, Morrow takes out 14 SCVs. Now at a 30 food disadvantage, Jinro reconstructs his wall with his remaining minerals, but it is only delaying the inevitable as Morrow rewinds his clock and duplicate another bust, ending the game and propels him into the RO16. [11:26]
Q: 가까운 시작위치 안나오도록 수정했는데도 불구하고 첫맵 금속도시에서 가까운 거리 정찰 갔습니다... 솔직히 말해 연습을 얼마나 했습니까 ^_^?
MC: 아 GSL경기에 집중하느라 TSL은 기본기로 하자고 생각하고 오늘 경기했습니다. 이점에 죄송하다고 생각하고 GSL결승이 끝난후에 좀 더 많은 준비를해서 좋은경기를 보여드리도록 노력할생각입니다.
Q: 32강전 전의 인터뷰에서 상대 선수 Ciara가 그리 띄어난 선수가 아니라고 했는데, 경기를 해보고나니 실력을 어떻게 평가합니까?
MC 역시나 별거없는 선수였고 첫경기때는 GG도 안치는 나쁜매너까지 봐서 그리 호감가는 선수는 아니네요.
Q: 다음 경기에서는 Loner 따이이와 White-Ra의 승자랑 붙는데, 이 선수들을 어떻게 생각합니까?
MC: loner선수는 그리 뛰어나지 않다고 생각하고있고 white-Ra선수는 해외에서 잘나가는 프로토스라고 듣고있습니다. 하지만 현재 세계 최고의 프로토스는 나고, 아쉽지만 그는 16강에서 나를만난것에 대해 TSL 관계자에게 문의를 해야할것입니다.
Q: 2번째 경기에서 초반 피해 입히고도 상대방 선수가 나름 한방 병력을 모을 수 있도록 나뒀는데, 조금이라도 위험하다는 생각이 들었습니까?
MC: 아니요 경기 내내 그저 편하게 했고 옵저버로 보면서 게임했기때문에 위험하다는 생각은 들지않았습니다.
Q: 좀 지겹겠지만, GSL 결승전에 임하는 각오는? (이 인터뷰는 GSL 결승전 이전에 진행했습니다)
MC: 음 일단 GSL 최초의 2회우승과 세계최고의 프로토스로서의 위엄을 지키는것 두가지라고 생각되네요. 요즘 트위터를시작했는데 해외팬분들이 많이 멘션해주셔서 감사드리고 요새 영어회화공부를 하고있는데: 조금 더 나아진 영어실력으로 인터뷰할수있도록 하겠습니다
Q: 아 그럼 영어로 한마디?
MC: Hello My foreigner fans i love yours i think allways thx for yours ^^
Q: We saw that you scouted close positions on Metalopolis, even though the maps have been fixed so you cannot start on those spots. Let's be honest here, how much did you practice for this match?
Ah, well I was focused on my GSL games so I decided to play through today's games using my fundamentals. I'm feel sorry about that, and once the GSL finals are over I'll prepare more for TSL and try to show people some good games.
Q: You mentioned in your previous interview that Ciara wasn't such a great player. What do you think of him now?
There was indeed, not much to him. And from his bad manners in not typing GG after the first game, I don't feel so kindly towards him.
Q: You will face the winner of Loner and White-Ra in the next round. What do you think of these players?
I don't think Loner is that good, while I've heard White-Ra is a successful Protoss player abroad. However, I'm the best Protoss player in the world, and they will probably have to complain to the TSL administrators about having faced me in the RO16.
Q: After dealing a lot of early damage to your opponent in game two, you allowed him to recover a little and mass a sizable army. Did you feel threatened at any point?
No, I felt comfortable all game, and because I was watching him with observers I didn't feel like I was in danger at all.
Q: Last question. You might be tired of this one by now, but what are your thoughts going into the GSL Final (this question will be outdated by the the date of publication)?
Well, there are two goals. Being the first two time winner of the GSL, and keeping my dignity as the best Protoss player in the world. I've started using Twitter nowadays, so thanks to my foreign fans for mentioning me lot. I've been studying English conversation these days, so I hope to take interviews with improved English in the future.
Q: Oh, wait a sec, then. How about a final comment in English?
Hello My foreigner fans. I love you. I think always thx for yours ^^.
Duckload.White-Ra Post-game Interview
Q: Congratulations! How do you feel?
It was not easy after losing game 1. He use four barracks with ghost, good tactic and very good defense it, when played that way it can kill you easily. It feels good I show my best performance and tactics work so I am happy.
Q: In game 2 you got upgrades instead of high temp tech.
I did not have enough gas, I am waiting for him to push it is a risky timing so I chose to make 2 robotics and 6 gateways to upgrade. If he attack me later I make templars, help kill vikings and marine-medic so I don't know why he didn't attack earlier. I did not want risky play so I did not make templars, I used colossus zealots.
Q: In game 3 how did you win that last battle?
His upgrades were worse, last battle I make archon (very good damage and hitpoints plus splash). Archons kill vikings fast with splash.
Q: Did you practice a lot?
Last week I practice 30-45 games a day, a lot with Strelok, Kas, and other Euro Terrans. I try to use some different build orders, of course this is first official game on GSL map. I practice a lot and choose best build, allin tactics very dangerous I try to play defensive and see what enemy makes and counter to his build.
Q: What is the team situation with Duckload, are they adding new players?
It is not easy to find new players, they need manner, skill, and fans. That is hard to find as all good players have contracts and teams, Duckload is a one player team. Good for me because I can invite individual sponsors for me, Duckload lets me do this it is good.
Q: What are your thoughts on the bracket?
Crazy bracket for me, Loner very good. He is very impressive, make few mistakes. I only practice PvT, PvP is my worst matchup right now. Its hard to play standard like Brood War (gateway/reaver play), very hard to choose builds and hard to defend 4 gates. If you don't make 4 gates it is often GG for you.
Q: So you're not giving Ciara good chance to beat MC?
MC has best chance, but he must win first. Need to check build orders and watch how MC play PvP, no free time to watch GSL I have only watched him PvT.
Q: Any final thanks? Anything to say to your fans?
Thanks fans and support and saying we believe in you to show good games. Thank you Duckload.com for support, soon I go to Korea to play GSL World Final and Duckload will support me there. Strelok has a TvP so I helped him and he helped me, thanks and I hope he shows good games too. Thank you for good organization as always.
mouz.HasuObs Post-game Interview
Q: Congratulations, how did you feel after you won?
Thanks. You really ask me how I felt after I won? Man, I'm still feeling great. I was really happy that I won my first TSL3 series!
Q: Lets go through the games. What are your thoughts about game 1? You held a 4 gate with 3 gate only.
Yes indeed. I think HuK got a bit overeager when he run up the ramp. My sentry was a little bit late, but still my forcefield blocked a lot of his units. So in the end I was ahead after his 4 gate attack. Then the game turned into a bit more defensive play, HuK went for Robo and Collosi while I made blinkstalker into expansion and later collosus. I was able to snipe a few Stalker right before he pushed my expo, so in the end I had a bigger army and was able to defend his push.
Q: Game 2 was a longer game where you went 3g blink and huk went many immortals. what went wrong?
To be honest, I didnt see that heavy immortal play on europe yet. It was a perfect counter to my 3 gate blinkstalker opening. I was also very scared that he will just try to break my ramp, so i played very defensive and didnt get my expo in time. I was behind in economy for a while and in the end, he had more Collosos than me. His whole army composition was better.
Q: In game 3, you hid a pylon, were your surprised that huk didnt scout that corner of his base?
Hm, a little bit. I played straight up on map 1 and 2 while he tried to 4 gate me the first map. So I thought I can do the same, just a little bit more sneaky. I was sending a 2nd Probe into his mainbase and he chased out my first one with his zealot/stalker. Then I realised he will probably not check the corner once again, so I made a Pylon and warped in zealot/stalker. He couldnt defend my attack, since he made a 3 gate robo.
Q: How much did you practice for this match? how did you prepare for Huk?
Lately I had to play vs Mana and White-Ra quite often in tournaments, so I had a good idea how to play PvP right now. I also watched a lot of replays and followed Huk's livestream. Besides that, I played custom games of course.
Q: Huk recently qualified for code S in the GSL. Do you feel that this win means more to you knowing the success he's had in the GSL? Do you feel you could compete well in the GSL if you lived in Korea?
Yes, I saw his games vs Inca and choya (that was also a part of my preparation). Actually I would not overrate this match vs Huk, of course its nice to win vs him, but its still PvP and only a best of 3. I have no idea about the level in the GSL, maybe I could. But its not my plan to move to Korea to play GSL, so I never really thought about that =).
Q: Your next opponent will either be liquidjinro or your teammate mouzmorrow. what do you think about these players? who would you like to play and why?
Both are extremly strong. I would rather play Morrow than Jinro, first of all because I dont like to play PvT and also because Morrow is my teammate. That means at least 1 mouz player will make it to the next round! But in the end I dont mind who I meet, I will prepare myself as good as I can to try to win.
Q: Do you have anyone to thank or any last words for your fans?
A big thanks to all those guys who helped me out in my preparation. I hope you guys enjoyed the match. Im already looking forward to the next round. I hope you guys follow the TSL3 as excited as I do! You can also visit me on http://www.facebook.com/HasuObs.
mouz.MorroW Post-Game Interview
Q: You just won your first round game against Jinro, how do you feel?
I feel absolutely amazing, very happy camper.
Q: You used some well-timed midgame baneling busts in the two games you won. Was this planned, or were you improving?
I hadn't planned to do it originally, but in the first game it looked too tempting, the way he made his wallin i knew 3 raxes would blow up by striking in the middle. Also I knew that Jinros playstyle is to get quick medivacs rather than the hellions or siege tanks.
But I definitely practiced all playstyles for this match the last few days, so desperation never crossed my mind. The second game however I felt like I had made so many lings and I had fallen behind early, so I felt that I had to do something to get back into the game. I knew that playing a standard game would hardly let me come back vs Jinro on a map that fits his playstyle very well (tanks on the cliff, midgame harass and split troops). However, I failed the attack and it went into a macro game and it became a living nightmare. I did OK considering that I fell behind a lot early on, but it wasn't enough.
The last game I felt, 'Ok Jinro, you didn't go for the siege tanks or hellions any of the 2 previous games and you went for this style as well and vs Idra in GSL.' Pretty much every game he used the same style, so I felt he was a bit too comfortable and predictable with it, so I went for it and took the chance.
It didn't work out so well, until 10-15 SCVs blew up, and from there I knew I had won the game if I didn't make any blunders.
Q: You mentioned in your pre-round of 32 interview that TvZ was affected by the new maps. Another TSL competitor, MVP, mentioned recently that the new GSL maps and their long starting distances reversed the TvZ balance of previous seasons. What do you think?
Well in general, the larger the maps are, the nicer it is for Zerg cause you can drone up more. So that's when you go from small to medium sizes.
But when you go from medium sizes to even larger sizes, it can backfire in other ways.
I think these GSL maps are pretty fair in ZvT. At first I thought it would be an easy ride for Zerg but the more I played on them and talked to Idra and other great Zergs, I realized it was more fair than I thought.
Medivac harass, or even random vikings hunting overlords all over the map became very strong because it takes a long time for mutalisks to catch them. Also, this marine siege tank.composition; Sure it's good in small chokes but there's a turning point where maps becomes so open that you can spread out every single marine and siege tank. Suddenly, it's almost impossible to engage the Terran army without losing a lot more than he did.
It reminds me a lot of how PvT worked in SC1, where the more you spread, the more toss lost because he spends so much time moving instead of attacking.
But they still might favor Z a bit. They are definitely better than the Blizzard maps, but I think those are also definitely playable. If I were to play ZvT, Shakuras cross pos or Metal crosspos are a lot better than tal darim or terminus because they're small enough to let mass muta punish any medivacs or random vikings on the map, etc.
On these super large maps you have to stop mutalisk play at some point and switch to infestor just because of the idea that mutalisks have to stick together to be strong.
Q: You've been quite vocal about your confidence in ZvT, but your next opponent will be the winner of HasuObs vs Huk, both Protoss players. Which player would you rather face, and what do you think about playing against Protoss in the next round?
I would definetly wanna play againts hasuobs. I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it).
Q: Hasuobs because he's your teammate and you'd like him to make it through to the next round? Or because he's an easier opponent;)?
^^ As a player, he would be quite a bit easier than Huk. But also as a friend and teammate I'm cheering for him to win it. PvP should be random enough to make the underdog win, haha.
Q: Any last comments?
Thanks to my clan and its sponsors Geil, HoH, Medion, Intel, Razer, and Sansibar. Also thanks for the ones who are cheering for me in the TSL Also thanks to the guys who practiced with me the last few days, the top Terrans of Europe^^.
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Q: You will face the winner of Loner and White-Ra in the next round. What do you think of these players?
I don't think Loner is that good, while I've heard White-Ra is a successful Protoss player abroad. However, I'm the best Protoss player in the world, and they will probably have to complain to the TSL administrators about having faced me in the RO16.
ahahaha, what a bad ass. Just made me more of a fan.
MC's awesome, White-Ra is too. Gotta say that MC will win between the two. And good for Hasuobs for saying that it was PvP, not necessarily him being better than HuK. And lol at Morrow's 3 paragraph responses.
i shouldnt of opened this thread until i got home from work.. 1 not only did i find out the results.. but i also wasted so much time reading the articles lol..
ugh back to work ... i NEED to see the vods haha. great interviews. thank you TL
MC's cockiness started off as real entertaining but now its just becoming annoying to me. I did however really enjoy Morrows interview it shows he put a lot of thought into his games.
On March 21 2011 14:08 DyEnasTy wrote: I think MC's confidence in himself will backfire soooo hard if he doesnt win this TSL, even more so if he loses to a non-korean.
On March 21 2011 14:08 DyEnasTy wrote: I think MC's confidence in himself will backfire soooo hard if he doesnt win this TSL, even more so if he loses to a non-korean.
except he's confident whether he wins or loses. o.O
Uh oh morrow mentioned balance XD I'm feeling kind of how I did back in GSL 1. Cheer for basically every zerg unless they play someone I really like. So yay morrow
From what I've read, the games were played before the GSL finals? If thats the case, I would think its natural for MC to focus on the GSL finals instead of practising for a match against a relatively unknown protoss. Don't hate the Kratoss Protoss!
ohhhh i like MC's confidence usually, EXCEPT that he dissed white-ra this time. But no worries MC, White-ra is merciful. He'll teach you a lesson or two ( i hope)
But in all honesty, i don't think this will be a walk in the park for MC. I think Koreans are ahead in a lot of matchups except PvP. I feel that Europeans has a very very strong PvP style that can compete with / even ahead of the Koreans. If White-ra's pvp is as good as Socke's then i imagine him giving MC a very tense time.
oh and I wish there were more questions about Ciara so we get some more juicy contents.. Like did he expect that 3 gate half hearted attack to end the game at all.
TSL3 Round of 32 Day 1 Recap by heyoka and Lovedrop
Ok, I clicked on this post by mistake, since I missed the first two series and didn't want to be spoiled before I watched the VOD's. But shouldn't that read Day 2 Recap?
Anyway, off to bed for me and I'll watch em in the morning. It's been a great SC2 weekend after a bit of a dry Jan/Feb.
Phenomenal job MorroW, your TvZ is beautiful and I'm glad you are making your zerg more unpredictable than some of the other top zergs who just stick to one style and get abused, gl in next round!
"However, I'm the best Protoss player in the world, and they will probably have to complain to the TSL administrators about having faced me in the RO16"- MC
hahahahah this is amazing. Seriously I love reading his interviews, they brighten up my day. I love his overconfidence. When he wins it makes him look like a genious. When he loses....well he doesn't lose, but when he eventually loses it's ok because he's suicidetoss.
It probably says a lot about MC that I can't think of a single other progamer who I could look at and say "yep they have a good chance against MinChul"
On March 21 2011 14:16 Mogs wrote: TSL3 Round of 32 Day 1 Recap by heyoka and Lovedrop
Ok, I clicked on this post by mistake, since I missed the first two series and didn't want to be spoiled before I watched the VOD's. But shouldn't the that read Day 2 Recap?
Anyway, off to bed for me and I'll watch em in the morning. It's been a great SC2 weekend after a bit of a dry Jan/Feb.
Meh, such a sad day with both Huk and Jinro out. =(
One could see that Huk either had big latency issues (I suppose the way TSL works games 1 and 3 were played on EU?) or even bigger nerve issues than usual (especially in Game 3), or both.
On March 21 2011 14:13 dtz wrote: ohhhh i like MC's confidence usually, EXCEPT that he dissed white-ra this time. But no worries MC, White-ra is merciful. He'll teach you a lesson or two ( i hope)
But in all honesty, i don't think this will be a walk in the park for MC. I think Koreans are ahead in a lot of matchups except PvP. I feel that Europeans has a very very strong PvP style that can compete with / even ahead of the Koreans. If White-ra's pvp is as good as Socke's then i imagine him giving MC a very tense time.
oh and I wish there were more questions about Ciara so we get some more juicy contents.. Like did he expect that 3 gate half hearted attack to end the game at all.
White Ra and MC, I dont know who to support ):
But WhiteRa is most certainly the underdog, so I will vote for him. Like Morrow said, PvP is uncertain enough so the underdog could win.
Q: You will face the winner of Loner and White-Ra in the next round. What do you think of these players?
I don't think Loner is that good, while I've heard White-Ra is a successful Protoss player abroad. However, I'm the best Protoss player in the world, and they will probably have to complain to the TSL administrators about having faced me in the RO16.
Great interviews, I like how Morrow doesn't mind spending a few words on his decision making and thoughts on the state of the game (same with his vote on the disconnect situation).
Mouz really prepared well for these matches. Good for them. I like them a lot more after these interviews too. Hasu seems to have a nice personality, so I'll be cheering for him.
I'm willin' to bet White-Ra's gonna make MC put a sock in his mouth and stomp him. (actually, I think MC is going to win, but here's to hopeful thinking, right?) I like Morrow, he puts a lot of thought into his games by the look of his essay, and I must say, he's an impressive player, though I wasn't impressed by his baneling busts, just surprised Jinro didn't successfully prep for it the third game, but then again, that was a -lot- of banelings. I really wanted to see HuK and Jinro makes it to the finals, that'd be an amazing matchup. Here's to TSL!
I disappointed Jinro bowed out so early Oh well congratz goes to MorroW
Also I love how WhiteRA's misses words in his interview, no jokes, it was adorable, I can just imagine his little accent in my head as I read it. Shame MC will crush him.
On March 21 2011 14:09 KashmirAZ wrote: MC's cockiness started off as real entertaining but now its just becoming annoying to me. I did however really enjoy Morrows interview it shows he put a lot of thought into his games.
It's annoying maybe, but he's fully entitled to it unless someone can prove him to no longer be the best Protoss in the world.
Is there even another Toss who comes close right now?
I guess I should have known that players prepare for matches by following their opponents' livestreams, but man, that was a dash of cold water on my enjoyment of watching HuK's stream; I guess he has to be very careful what he reveals on there because opponents are watching...
On March 21 2011 14:09 KashmirAZ wrote: MC's cockiness started off as real entertaining but now its just becoming annoying to me. I did however really enjoy Morrows interview it shows he put a lot of thought into his games.
It's annoying maybe, but he's fully entitled to it unless someone can prove him to no longer be the best Protoss in the world.
Is there even another Toss who comes close right now?
He certainly has the right to be cocky seeing as he is nearly untouchable lately, but what I meant was it was it started off entertaining but now its just so expected and obnoxious.
Im actually scared to see how good players will be in a year from now. Imagine the next person to completely dominate the scene, including dominating MC...
On March 21 2011 14:08 DyEnasTy wrote: I think MC's confidence in himself will backfire soooo hard if he doesnt win this TSL, even more so if he loses to a non-korean.
Q: You mentioned in your previous interview that Ciara wasn't such a great player. What do you think of him now?
There was indeed, not much to him.
Wow MC! Since they did this interview before the GSL Finals, he for sure was so pumped, he was like "oh right, these TSL games. OK, lets just play... yup, crushed him. OK, back to practice".
But would really dislike to see him getting even more self-confident. He shows how good he is during his matches, shouldnt start bashing his opponents.
Q: You mentioned in your previous interview that Ciara wasn't such a great player. What do you think of him now?
There was indeed, not much to him.
Wow MC! Since they did this interview before the GSL Finals, he for sure was so pumped, he was like "oh right, these TSL games. OK, lets just play... yup, crushed him. OK, back to practice".
But would really dislike to see him getting even more self-confident. He shows how good he is during his matches, shouldnt start bashing his opponents.
You conveniently left out the second half of his answer.
Q: Any final thanks? Anything to say to your fans? Thanks fans and support and saying we believe in you to show good games. Thank you Duckload.com for support, soon I go to Korea to play GSL World Final and Duckload will support me there. Strelok has a TvP so I helped him and he helped me, thanks and I hope he shows good games too. Thank you for good organization as always.
Best part of the entire interview section, I almost squee'd. I hope you will be able to show your best games in Korea White-ra .
MC ftw! And he didn't need to practice for ciara because he was practicing pvz for july anyways. Ace took out whitera 2-0 at iem in pvp so I expect mc to do the same. Hoping for either an mc/mvp vs nestea finals so they both can see new york city!! Plus if a korean makes the finals I petition tl to fly john over to be the official translator!
Q: You mentioned in your previous interview that Ciara wasn't such a great player. What do you think of him now?
There was indeed, not much to him.
Wow MC! Since they did this interview before the GSL Finals, he for sure was so pumped, he was like "oh right, these TSL games. OK, lets just play... yup, crushed him. OK, back to practice".
But would really dislike to see him getting even more self-confident. He shows how good he is during his matches, shouldnt start bashing his opponents.
You conveniently left out the second half of his answer.
Dunno if this has anything to do with what I wrote? He just doesn't feel bad about saying this, thats what the rest of his answer says.
And about White-Ra and Loner:
I'm the best Protoss player in the world, and they will probably have to complain to the TSL administrators about having faced me in the RO16.
Well this is more than just confidence in himself. And to me, this is more annoying than Ciara leaving a game without GGing after getting totally destroyed.
Nevertheless, MC for sure IS the best in the world right now.
Great interviews and it was nice to see a little more from MC than just one word responses. I also very much enjoy reading the longer interviews of Morrow hearing speak his entire thoughts on any question. Tune in next week for:
Great interviews, especially like MCs comments and white-ra's interview. Don't know if this question should be here, but was there any word on why Huk said "OMG" in game 1?
I wonder how bad huk/jinro/MC were lagging? It seemed like Jinro's micro was pretty good, but MC was clearly not force fielding as well as in GSL not that it mattered.
Still I think bad lag might force MC to go for the "death ball" in future games so he can macro and 1a to victory and not rely on perfect forcefields.
Huk and Jinro are out?? dang...Huk i kinda expected since PvP is not his strong suit, but JINRO? wow i cant wait to watch the vods. only 2 more days of exams then i can actually watch some of the TSL!!!
Does anyone still know when the hell were the games exactly played? From MC's interview it would be indicative that before the GSL finals, but Morrow's match history shows him training this BBust strat yesterday. (stalking!)
I think when MC said that his greatest weakness is his overconfidence he was quite right, but we'll see. If you're able to acknowledge your strengths and weaknesses you're so far ahead of everyone else
lol at MC... first saying that Ciara is bm, then he's talking smack at Loner and WhiteRa. I sure hope that WhiteRa cheeses him Ukrainian style and shuts his bigmouth up. Go WhiteRa!
On March 21 2011 16:59 FlashIsHigh wrote: Morrow talking about Imbalance when he had to use two all in builds to beat Jinro. I had respect for Morrow before this series.
Yep, better be manner and let Terran have a free advantage by let them CC first without siege tech. Sounds good.
I mean, it's Morrow. Everyone forgot who was behind the 5rax reaper at IEM ?
Q: You mentioned in your previous interview that Ciara wasn't such a great player. What do you think of him now?
There was indeed, not much to him.
Wow MC! Since they did this interview before the GSL Finals, he for sure was so pumped, he was like "oh right, these TSL games. OK, lets just play... yup, crushed him. OK, back to practice".
But would really dislike to see him getting even more self-confident. He shows how good he is during his matches, shouldnt start bashing his opponents.
You conveniently left out the second half of his answer.
Dunno if this has anything to do with what I wrote? He just doesn't feel bad about saying this, thats what the rest of his answer says.
And about White-Ra and Loner:
I'm the best Protoss player in the world, and they will probably have to complain to the TSL administrators about having faced me in the RO16.
Well this is more than just confidence in himself. And to me, this is more annoying than Ciara leaving a game without GGing after getting totally destroyed.
Nevertheless, MC for sure IS the best in the world right now.
MC isn't the suicide toss for nothing. He basically makes it so he either wins or gets embarrassed. Honestly this time I hope it's the latter.
Yep, me too. I love MC and I don't actually have a problem with his ...uh, confidence, but I totally want WhiteRa to rape him in the balls. ^_^
Great write-up (as always)! I can't believe the craziness that happened with the mouz vs. Liquid` games.
I feel bad for HuK getting the exact thing he didn't want for a first round match. Sucks that he had to play something so chancy for his first match.
I thought MorroW's decision making was great in his games. I'm always happy to see a player take advantage of a clear weakness in their opponent's play. It seems like Jinro's propensity for the strong macro game is starting to catch up with him.
On March 21 2011 16:02 PackAttack wrote: Is Morrow secretly a writer? After his huge essay in the disconnect thread and his responses here, im starting to wonder...
Morrow is the modern Aristotles, I love his writing and the thoughtprocess.
MC's arrogance is just making him a villain. It's like his winning is feeding his ego instead of his well being. He is basically worse then Idra. Ah well, guess its just more fun seeing him lose, cause it will happen, it happened all january, it'll happen again.
MC is a bit of a prick.. his power is going straight to his head, I would love to see white-ra demolish him and just do something insanely bm towards mc during the game. Sadly, that probably won't happen, because white-ra is a decent person, unlike mc.
On March 21 2011 14:19 Dhalphir wrote: It probably says a lot about MC that I can't think of a single other progamer who I could look at and say "yep they have a good chance against MinChul"
On March 21 2011 17:40 Crissaegrim wrote: Come on ppl, think of MC as a larger than life WWE wrestler. Why is everyone getting so personal and "I cant take anymore of his cockiness" shit?
I dont hear anyone complain about the attitude of the Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin.
A big part has to be the convention of SC2 and carryover from SC1 vs convention in professional wrestling. That said I think MC and his response just radiates confidence and I love it
Meh, not sure why so much hate on MC. So what if he said he was the best Protoss player in the world... he is! I'm bored of all the Korean progamers being humble and modest and "I just practiced really hard and thanks to all my teammates". This guy's a baller, and he walks into the GSL finals wearing a Teamliquid patch on his jacket.
He has the balls to speak English on television, youtube, interviews, everywhere - just to be a bit more accessible to his foreign fans. If you won a game in the GSL, would you try out your Korean out in your interview? Even just 감사합니다 (thank you)? I doubt it. Cut him some slack!
Saying all that, I've been a White Ra fanboi since beta, so I'm going to be cheering for him.. but I'm not sure I like his chances. I think from his interviews that he thinks of PvP as a coin flip. But MC wins a heck of a lot of his PvPs (did anyone see how he tore HongunPrime to pieces with identical unit compositions?).
Aside from Duckload, MC would probably have my support against anyone left in the tournament except Liquid'Tyler. (go Tyler!)
On March 21 2011 17:40 Crissaegrim wrote: Come on ppl, think of MC as a larger than life WWE wrestler. Why is everyone getting so personal and "I cant take anymore of his cockiness" shit?
I dont hear anyone complain about the attitude of the Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin.
A big part has to be the convention of SC2 and carryover from SC1 vs convention in professional wrestling. That said I think MC and his response just radiates confidence and I love it
Exactly. How did firebathero become so popular? From being mannered and respectful to everyone?
Trash talk isn't nice in the slightest but it brings games up to another level
On March 21 2011 17:40 Crissaegrim wrote: Come on ppl, think of MC as a larger than life WWE wrestler. Why is everyone getting so personal and "I cant take anymore of his cockiness" shit?
I dont hear anyone complain about the attitude of the Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin.
A big part has to be the convention of SC2 and carryover from SC1 vs convention in professional wrestling. That said I think MC and his response just radiates confidence and I love it
Exactly. How did firebathero become so popular? From being mannered and respectful to everyone?
Trash talk isn't nice in the slightest but it brings games up to another level
That is what atleast I am trying to say, that MC is a cocky arrogant prick having the power get to him. It's nice to have such a guy in the sc2 community, but hence, the hate towards him. This will make it extremely good when he loses, like whitera (good) vs MC (evil). Till now Idra has been the only one being rude and direct, now we have another villain called MC.
I cant wait for the MC vs Whitera part. If Whitera wins, imagine the crowd going wild. If MC just was plain boring, then the Whitera win wouldn't mean that much.
So dont bash people hating MC, its what is needed, and will be good.
On March 21 2011 17:33 DongWang wrote: MC is a bit of a prick.. his power is going straight to his head, I would love to see white-ra demolish him and just do something insanely bm towards mc during the game. Sadly, that probably won't happen, because white-ra is a decent person, unlike mc.
MC is such a boss, he's cocky but so far he gets away with it because he's such a boss! Its great to have a player bring some personality to the scene.
To bad Jinro and Huk lost, makes me sad panda. However both Morrow and Hasu played amazingly and deserved it!
I am so proud of HasuObs. Not only for showing these good games, but even more for being so modest about his win. Shows that he's a great player AND has a great personality. Made a fan out of me!
there's a difference between rudeness and honesty. idra is rude, mc is honest. is there anything that's not true or even arguable in his bashing of ciara or underlining that he is he best toss in the world (note, he's he best player, but he only says toss) ? mc forever win or lose <3
white-ra...<3 too man, wish he was a few years younger so he could practice more and keep playing competitively for a few years more, he's indeed such a manner guy
i love hasuobs' modesty, people shouldn't hate on him for taking huk, blame the matchup being what it is, allowing so few good games
morrow talking his usual page-long blah blah, all i can say about the guy is that if he wins a tournament i'll join idra in whatever facepalming action he takes (if he keeps his promise)
Q: You mentioned in your previous interview that Ciara wasn't such a great player. What do you think of him now?
There was indeed, not much to him.
Wow MC! Since they did this interview before the GSL Finals, he for sure was so pumped, he was like "oh right, these TSL games. OK, lets just play... yup, crushed him. OK, back to practice".
But would really dislike to see him getting even more self-confident. He shows how good he is during his matches, shouldnt start bashing his opponents.
You conveniently left out the second half of his answer.
Dunno if this has anything to do with what I wrote? He just doesn't feel bad about saying this, thats what the rest of his answer says.
Just saying you're cherry-picking sentences out of context to make an argument. You say he shouldn't bash his opponent, but he gave a pretty good reason justifying why he he bashed Ciara (i.e. Ciara was very bm b/c he didn't type gg), which you completely left out when you quoted his statement.
On March 21 2011 19:18 Nazgral wrote: MC is an arrogant "%&&, seriously am I the only one who sees this? Besides that, so awesome games this weekend really looking forward to next weekend!
Naz
Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of MC. He might be arguably the best player in the world, but he's extremely arrogant about it
I dont see how people are getting so upset about MC's attitude, hes not blindly hating or anything hes just like a pro wrestler as a guy above said somewhere its all in good fun. Also i really like reading morrows essays its interesting to see it through the players PoV, some great games yesterday cant wait for next weekends matches.
It's hard to make tone get across well in writing. I won't claim to know what MC is thinking, but to me it looks like he's just joking around while maintaining that he knows how good he is.
Ciara could've said 'gg', even if he was frustrated. 'S just what you do.
Let's just see what he says when someone beats him. If he proclaims he lost because of lag or imba or something like that I'll concede my point. Personally I think that if that happens he'll be generous with his praise.
And go Hasu! Micro them stalkers like crypt fiends
you just have to love MC, finaly there's a villian in SC, aside from IDRA, who's actualy interesting. Admit it, much more fun and entertaining reading an MC interview than a borring ass interview by by the "good mannered" players. MC brings the entertainment everytime.
Esport needs the villians to make it mainstream, the public dont care about the good manners! 'nuff said.
The double standards in this thread. I have no doubt in my mind that some of the people that completely ignored Ciara's BM are also the same people that would call Idra out for being BM
MC has every reason to be arrogant as he is. Didn't Flash say that there was no-one in the last OSL (or MSL) that could beat him but lose in straight TvT games?
On March 21 2011 19:49 Dakkas wrote: The double standards in this thread. I have no doubt in my mind that some of the people that completely ignored Ciara's BM are also the same people that would call Idra out for being BM
Maybe it's because it's not nice to kick someone's who's already down for the count
On March 21 2011 19:49 Dakkas wrote: The double standards in this thread. I have no doubt in my mind that some of the people that completely ignored Ciara's BM are also the same people that would call Idra out for being BM
Maybe it's because it's not nice to kick someone's who's already down for the count
On March 21 2011 19:49 Jayjay54 wrote: i don't know why, but there is something about morrow what makes him unlikeable...
I feel the exact opposite.
Morrow fighting!
Same! Always a great read.
Contrary to MC... Yes, in the beginning his over confident talk was fun, but now it's getting BORING like hell...
And not because he isn't right... he will probably destroy the rest of the world. But due to these type of answers he never says something meaningful or interesting. Even the best player in the world could at least say 1 or 2 words about what his next oppenent does good/bad/...
On March 21 2011 19:59 lowkontrast wrote: The moment MC starts to drop games is the moment he starts losing a lot of fans, he's just so cocky.
Yeah and it's not like he's been beating top contenders in his last three GSLs. He's had an incredibly easy ride in GSL march and also in semis/finals in GSL S3(Jinro(not hating, but he couldn't respond to MCs PvT at the time) and Rain) so I think some of his cockyness is unfounded. It's good for the scene to have a villain to bring down I just feel it will happen quite soon.
On March 21 2011 19:49 Dakkas wrote: The double standards in this thread. I have no doubt in my mind that some of the people that completely ignored Ciara's BM are also the same people that would call Idra out for being BM
MC has every reason to be arrogant as he is. Didn't Flash say that there was no-one in the last OSL (or MSL) that could beat him but lose in straight TvT games?
I don't understand this perception that not GGing is some hideous BM. Anyway MC is spicing things up like a boss and Morrow is always refreshing with his long answers
I have no problem wiht MCs attitude, just like HUK, when he starts to loose, which i doubt will happen in the nearest future, he will heat his own words. The top 3 control in the world, is still hunting HUK, as people can witness, looking at the live report thread.
The only problem i have with MC is his dominance, the games he is participating in are not at all entertaining, to me. It's like watching a professional boxer fighting a 8 year old with leukemia.
Morrow always does the best interviews. It's amazing seeing a pro-gamer talk freely and honestly about what they think about the game. And Morrow is particularly insightful since he is a mapmaker as well.
It's not, but I meant that he may not receive as much criticism because people feel a bit sorry for him for getting pummeled so badly by MC. I'm not making excuses for him.
pretty funny story is that forums all full of complaining against MC attitude or broken force fields...but in terms of Morrows Zerg Style against Jinro and his attitude towards the community...no one talks about that... :-)
On March 21 2011 20:31 wristuzi wrote: Morrow always does the best interviews. It's amazing seeing a pro-gamer talk freely and honestly about what they think about the game. And Morrow is particularly insightful since he is a mapmaker as well.
On March 21 2011 20:45 Cheerio wrote: inviting MC was a mistake. Big mistake. Huge.
I agree, hard to enjoy a tournament where you already know the winner
I will laugh so hard if White-Ra takes out MC. I don't think he will, but I'm really hoping for it. MC is so cocky it will be a real joy to watch when he loses
On March 21 2011 20:39 cutler wrote: pretty funny story is that forums all full of complaining against MC attitude or broken force fields...but in terms of Morrows Zerg Style against Jinro and his attitude towards the community...no one talks about that... :-)
Q: You will face the winner of Loner and White-Ra in the next round. What do you think of these players?
I don't think Loner is that good, while I've heard White-Ra is a successful Protoss player abroad. However, I'm the best Protoss player in the world, and they will probably have to complain to the TSL administrators about having faced me in the RO16.
i thought the best protoss in the world was athenewins... not MC
On March 21 2011 14:08 DyEnasTy wrote: I think MC's confidence in himself will backfire soooo hard if he doesnt win this TSL, even more so if he loses to a non-korean.
I think even if he loses next round no one is going to think any less of him.
On March 21 2011 20:39 cutler wrote: pretty funny story is that forums all full of complaining against MC attitude or broken force fields...but in terms of Morrows Zerg Style against Jinro and his attitude towards the community...no one talks about that... :-)
I have no idea what you are talking about. Care to elaborate?
Q: You will face the winner of Loner and White-Ra in the next round. What do you think of these players?
I don't think Loner is that good, while I've heard White-Ra is a successful Protoss player abroad. However, I'm the best Protoss player in the world, and they will probably have to complain to the TSL administrators about having faced me in the RO16.
i thought the best protoss in the world was athenewins... not MC
/endsarcasm
It would be the funniest thing ever if Athene could just randomly roll MC.
Damnit Jinro! Why didn't you build siege tanks!?!?! You ruined my bracket, only 3/4 on day 2.
Good for Morrow to punish his neglect of siege tanks though, everyone else played amazing and the Huk/Hosuobs game 2 was amazing. I do think Day 1 had better overall games, but so far I couldn't be happier with my first TSL!
At least I think, if WhiteRa takes out MC, MC will not blame lag. The positive side of his confidence is, that hes pretty realistic to his losses too in my opinion.
i really think you need guys like MC to keep it interesting. same with guys like mondragon who are always humble. imo both know that they are a bit over the top.
to elaborate on morrow. i can see why you guys like him, but at the same time - i dont really know.
Well, with Fruitdealer, Huk and Jinro falling, three of top players of the Korean scene have been knocked out by the top players of the western scene. That's kind of surprising, I wonder if there's somebody who predicted this.
oGsMC stomping over Ciara, well that was to be expected. No diss against Ciara, winning a TSL Qualifier with sick lineup is no small feat. But MC is still MC.
I don't like MC for his answers, but I like the fact that he answers that way. A guy in this thread was warned for calling MC arrogant but how can you deny that MC is arrogant?
He's the supervillain in my eyes and I will be cheering when he is knocked out. It makes the match-ups that include him high interest-games in my eyes and I won't be missing them
Thanks for all the coverage and speedy upload of the high quality vods, TSL team! I haven't cared this much about a tournament since TSL2; this is the only thing that I actually care about spoilers for and I just get so pumped for every single match, even more so now that there are all the koreans are playing in it. This truly makes it a world stage, thanks again for the great work guys, love the interviews too :D
For every1 saying MC will not lose =/ he is only a person he has lost before... i don't like him because he is 2 cocky and as a EU im hoping white.Ra nails him and i know White.Ra is good.. his game last night ok first went bad but the 2nd and 3rd game when it came to the battle most of his army was alive the blink under the viking and achrons was mint... and blinking to the ghosts to use the EMP was just pure skill... i hope White.Ra owns MC nd shuts him up
Ya fruitdealer huk and jinro losing was so unexpected. Definately hurt mine and 90% of the communities bracket.
I like MC's cocky dynamic i think Husky mentioned it. MC has made himself into this unstoppable "Bad Guy". No BM but has an intense amount of confidence. It makes most of his opponents nervous, anxious, and determined to win. It will make his next big loss that much more epic.
He wants to be a part of the growing NA scene. He applied with a decent video, better than most of the other foreigners if that means anything lol. If no foreigners are allowed in the NASL, it would be cool if the NASL winner played a best of 7 showmatch against MC for a prize or just the title =) NASL and GSL champions clash.
I'm a little upset with the way this turned out. Especially Jinro, I hardly doubted that he'd win. My main concern now is I don't think anyone in the bracket will be able to stop MC. And I love me some MC but I don't want Korea to win the TSL
Either way, good job to the winners, and a huge thumbs up to MorroW for knocking out my favorite Terran.
MC always gives good interviews, the guy knows how to entertain. Even though I thought it would be the other two players to advance Marrow vs Hasu should be a good match.
Although did MorroW just complain about imbalance? Beside it being a silly thing to say in an interview about a tournament, didnt MorroW switch to zerg because he was tired of zergs crying imbalance? Always admired players who wouldnt mention balance even if it was there, but they seem rare
MC being awesome as always. He isnt being arrogant or cocky since he really is that good. I'd call him BM if he wasnt that good, but when you've won the GSL twice i really dont think that saying "i'm the best protoss in the world" is BM. I think that he will take the whole thing. But you never know if he gets a lot of PvPs.
On March 21 2011 21:27 Fayfay wrote: Really hope MC loses horribly to .. well, anyone. Shut him up a little and maybe make him a bit more humble wouldn't hurt.
You realize MC is the suicidetoss right? Losing wont shut him up, he's been there, done that.
"I guess they didn't know that that MinChul's nickname in the korean community for SC1 was "suicide toss." In sc1 before one of his matches he went up to the camera and took his index finger and did the neck slice motion. Then he lost looking like a complete fool. Hence the term suicide toss was coined."
On March 21 2011 22:11 Deadlyfish wrote: Nice interviews!
Although did MorroW just complain about imbalance? Beside it being a silly thing to say in an interview about a tournament, didnt MorroW switch to zerg because he was tired of zergs crying imbalance? Always admired players who wouldnt mention balance even if it was there, but they seem rare
MC being awesome as always, i really think that he will take the whole thing. But you never know if he gets a lot of PvPs.
Well, Morrow is kinda knowed to be honest about his opinion of balance, even if it's his own race that is imbalanced.
MorroW just took advantage of Jinros playstyle, not getting siege tanks fast enough. I've been watching him a lot latley and he plays so God damn good. His creepspread is pretty sic sometimes. I really like how he puts so much effort in the interviews and explains his thought process. He got a great gamesence. I'll be cheering for MorroW in the rest of this tournament. Even tough I really wanted to see Jinro go far in TSL3. Really looking forward to next weekend and moore awesome games.
On March 21 2011 22:11 Deadlyfish wrote: Nice interviews!
Although did MorroW just complain about imbalance? Beside it being a silly thing to say in an interview about a tournament, didnt MorroW switch to zerg because he was tired of zergs crying imbalance? Always admired players who wouldnt mention balance even if it was there, but they seem rare
MC being awesome as always. He isnt being arrogant or cocky since he really is that good. I'd call him BM if he wasnt that good, but when you've won the GSL twice i really dont think that saying "i'm the best protoss in the world" is BM. I think that he will take the whole thing. But you never know if he gets a lot of PvPs.
MorroW switched to zerg because he enjoys the zerg playstyle more. It didn't have anything to do with "zerg whiners". And stating that PvZ is imbalanced is hardly a controversial statement.
Imho, the winner of White-Ra vs MC is going to either win the entire tourney or take 2nd. Two very, very good players. White-ra may have seen shaky in the first round, but now hes found his foothold and will give MC a run for his money.
By any chance is it possible that White-RA will be in Korea when he scheduled to play MC? The GOMTV World Championship will be between March 28th and April 9th.
I dont understand why this guy is getting so much love for being extremely arrogant, maybe too much UFC?I'll be the first to start the bashing when his slump comes.
I'm kind of sad to see Jinro out as he's probably my favourite player, but he did his best and Morrow is a good player also. All the best to the people who got through and can't wait for more games!
Really liking all these interviews. White-Ra is a beast and I expect at the very least 2-1. If he gets some good training with the other Euro tosses, he probably has a good chance of taking down MC and everyone's brackets at the same time.
I don't get why everyone is complaining so much about Morrow's win. Zergs need to get out of this all macro all the time attitude and be able to punish risky play when they can.
I think MC is kind of funny but when he goes around with such a confidence it has to suck when he starts loosing, which always happens sooner or later..
On March 21 2011 23:32 DrivenBatty wrote: Really liking all these interviews. White-Ra is a beast and I expect at the very least 2-1. If he gets some good training with the other Euro tosses, he probably has a good chance of taking down MC and everyone's brackets at the same time.
Not mine
I will be rooting for White-Ra the entire game, even if MC 2-0s him.
When MC answers like he has confidence in his answer, it sends chills throughout me because he has the skills to back it up. So long we've heard other pros mention this and that and be wrong, but MC is just good to back up that confidence.
I love how everybody says "i love to see whitera nuke MC and his arrogance", but what if that doesn't happen? What do you have next? Wait for another euro protoss? Haters gonna hate.
Q: You will face the winner of Loner and White-Ra in the next round. What do you think of these players?
I don't think Loner is that good, while I've heard White-Ra is a successful Protoss player abroad. However, I'm the best Protoss player in the world, and they will probably have to complain to the TSL administrators about having faced me in the RO16.
ahahaha, what a bad ass. Just made me more of a fan.
I'm loving how MC is preparing to trash talk in both Korean and English haha. And sorry, but I'm definitely rooting for Tyler in the next round. MC's gonna be complaining to the TSL admins after Tyler beats him in Ro8.
On the one side: A player of the korean scene with impeccable confidence and incredible arrogance, yet with more than enough skills and accomplishments to back it.
On the other side: A veteran player of the western scene silent and humble, yet feared by all other players for almost a decade.
Can't wait to see this. Forget TLO vs. Nada, this is the most accomplished protoss player in the korean scene versus the most accomplished protoss player in the western scene with personalities that couldn't be any more different from each other.
Will there ever be interviews from the losers? I would be very curious to hear Jinro's and HuK's reflections on their matches (not mention FruitDealer, of course!). I know they are probably not feeling the most enthusiastic right now, but it sure would be interesting to hear what they are thinking!
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
I like how morrow says he just couldn't resist baneling busting jinro. I've thought the same thing watching the gsl. You see three barracks and a tech lab researching all in the same baneling sized area. You begin to think it is some sort or trick, maybe he's trying to fool you into attempting a bust. It is just too tantalizing for words. Especially when the only alternative is going macro against a 1 rax CC economy.
Even if he is going hellions, there's a good chance it'll work anyways because he had to put 3 rax down first and researched stim, so he's unlikely to have more than a couple hellions out when it happens.
On March 22 2011 00:34 decaf wrote: MC is overdoing his confidence role imo..
Don't know why?
It's not like he is losing games. It's great to see such players instead of Mondragon style with answers like "i think i am the worst player in the tournament".
Even tho i always cheer for the liquid guys, the better players won. HasuObs outsmarted Huk and Morrow rolled over Jinro.
On March 22 2011 00:38 onmach wrote: I like how morrow says he just couldn't resist baneling busting jinro. I've thought the same thing watching the gsl. You see three barracks and a tech lab researching all in the same baneling sized area. You begin to think it is some sort or trick, maybe he's trying to fool you into attempting a bust. It is just too tantalizing for words. Especially when the only alternative is going macro against a 1 rax CC economy.
Even if he is going hellions, there's a good chance it'll work anyways because he had to put 3 rax down first and researched stim, so he's unlikely to have more than a couple hellions out when it happens.
I was really impressed by morrows preparation. Both times predicting jinros tech route thus knowing his stim timing and hitting just seconds before it finished. And that with just the right amount of banelings too. He knew beforehand just how long he could drone to get in just before the stim finishes.
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out.
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out.
That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win.
PvP feels a lot like broodwar ZvZ to me. Yes, it's random and bo's can play a big part.
But then, still, there's the fact that some players just shine at it and win in a large majority of their games, i.e. jaedong in bw ZvZ and MC in sc2 PvP.
A lot of MC's confidence, BM, and arrogance, are from him trying to intimidate his opponents. He said in his post-GSL win Interview that he did the zealot dance and the manner nexus to intimidate July
I wanted to intimidate the opponent and follow up from the zealot dance in the first set.
MC is awsome as always. Really dissapointed that Jinro dropped out, especially to Morrow who is not a favourit of mine (despite being swede ). Not that surprised that Huk dropped, PvP is really hard to predict except when MC is playing.
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out.
That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win.
And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it.
On March 21 2011 20:20 zocktol wrote: I have no problem wiht MCs attitude, just like HUK, when he starts to loose, which i doubt will happen in the nearest future, he will heat his own words. The top 3 control in the world, is still hunting HUK, as people can witness, looking at the live report thread.
The only problem i have with MC is his dominance, the games he is participating in are not at all entertaining, to me. It's like watching a professional boxer fighting a 8 year old with leukemia.
Hopefully White-Ra puts up a good fight.
Well doesnt that say something about MC? Just using what you said and who he has faced (like july), that makes him an amazing player to make a game with july look like "a professional boxer fighting a 8 year old with leukemia"
Nice interviews and a nice write up, though I will say MC comes of a little too cocky for my liking, but I suppose with a record like his it’s hard not to be at least a little cocky. He is a very impressive player, and I think arguably the best Protoss player in the world so in a way he’s just stating facts, but I believe everyone regardless of where they are should understand how to be humble.
Awesome games, cool stuff by Morrow, I thought they were pretty evenly matched, people don't give Morrow enough credit. Also Husky's commentary has improved by a lot, but he speaks way fast. :/
lol MC is such a boss. That is probably the best interview I've ever read on TL. Gotta love the best player in the world trash talking and winning its awesome.
MC is great, I'm not sure why he's getting so much flak for it. He is the best player in the world (right now) after all. It's also obvious (at least to me) that he's jesting for the most part, and enjoying his time in the spotlight. When it counts, his true nature comes out: wearing a TL patch in the GSL finals, reaching out to the foreigner community, etc etc.
Also this whole hero vs villain thing everyone has going with him is great for the community because people want to take him down. It's one of the things you need to make a superstar.
The difference between MC's BM and Ciara's BM is that MC's is in justified confidence and Ciara's is in bitter raging. There are obviously a ton of things Ciara could do to improve, so raging about losing to the best player in the world is a little immature.
the second hasu huk game needs a few updates....huk had 5 immortals not stalkers and you say "Huk, now armed with 5 stalkers, takes advantage of his superior army and expands. Huk decides to as well, warping in a huge number of zealots making Huk unable to pressure him." im pretty sure the second huk is a hasu....just saying
Morrow interview was pretty good , he always looks / sounds like a damn nice guy , I really don't get how some people dislike / hate him.
I like MC's cockyness , I love when he talks big and stuff but his bandwagon is really overdoing it. He's a player , no doubt , he's trying to make a name for himself and have a moral advantage over his opponents , I just don't get why his fans doing it tho. I mean , it is pretty normal ( and awesome ) when a player comes up and says "I'm the best , just hand me the 1st place and get lost" but it looks a bit weird when a fan comes up and says "He's the best , just hand him the 1st place and let's all get lost".
Whatever , I'm loving TSL so far , you guys are doing an incredibly good job !
<3 MorroW's interviews. He is a great mapmaker, has experience with top level Z and T, and is still only ~18 years old. He definitely has a good future ahead of him and probably could get a job in Blizzard if he wanted to.
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out.
That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win.
And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it.
PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose.
Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs.
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out.
That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win.
And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it.
PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose.
Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs.
I don't buy into this "randomness rock/paper/scissors" thing. You can't say this on one hand then also say "well the better player should usually win". How do you explain MC's 86% win ratio in the matchup if it REALLYis randomness? If he wins because he is 10x better than the opponents like you say, then it isn't a rock/paper/scissors match. Can't be both! Please go look up the meaning of the word random on wikipedia or something because nobody seems to know what it actually means.
You heard some pro who doesn't like the matchup say this and are just copying their opinion without putting any thought into it yourself. If it was like this, the best player in the world should not have such a high win rate in the matchup. Link to his record: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/640_MC
I would love to actually hear a good argument for this randomness some people think seems to exist in PvP. Nothing said so far can be considered an argument because they're just statements without any evidence/support.
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out.
That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win.
And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it.
PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose.
Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs.
Could you please expedite the rock paper siccors analogy further? Whats the difference between pvp bo and other mu's bo wins.
On March 21 2011 21:39 JustPassingBy wrote: Well, with Fruitdealer, Huk and Jinro falling, three of top players of the Korean scene have been knocked out by the top players of the western scene. That's kind of surprising, I wonder if there's somebody who predicted this.
I suspect playing with 1+seconds of constant lag is a lot of it. I suspect anyone who knew what the earth quake would do to connection speed could have predicted it.
Not to discredit Thorzain/Morrow who played awsome, but I'd say the game boxer lost was clearly lag, and the 1st game Huk lost was likely lag. Not sure with FD.
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out.
That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win.
And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it.
PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose.
Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs.
Could you please expedite the rock paper siccors analogy further? Whats the difference between pvp bo and other mu's bo wins.
I don't know much about PvP, but I can tell you how it works in ZvZ...
14pool > 10pool 14hatch > 14pool 10pool > 14hatch
Edit: BTW, starting to get over my hatred of morrow's mass reaper play and actually become a fan. Win games and speak the truth, that's all I ask of a Zerg. But I still don't quite understand why he switched to Zerg to begin with if he thinks it is imbalanced. He says he likes the Zerg playstyle better and then says that he expects Hasu to beat him because it's imbalanced? I don't quite get it.
On March 21 2011 21:39 JustPassingBy wrote: Well, with Fruitdealer, Huk and Jinro falling, three of top players of the Korean scene have been knocked out by the top players of the western scene. That's kind of surprising, I wonder if there's somebody who predicted this.
I suspect playing with 1+seconds of constant lag is a lot of it. I suspect anyone who knew what the earth quake would do to connection speed could have predicted it.
Not to discredit Thorzain/Morrow who played awsome, but I'd say the game boxer lost was clearly lag, and the 1st game Huk lost was likely lag. Not sure with FD.
More amusing is that on one half of the bracket, 3 out of the 6 "Koreans" are white just because of where Jinro, HuK and Idra were ranked on the GSL when the invites were done.
Hah, I can't believe how MC can be so selfconfident about himself, in a good way! I do like White-Ra, but MC will probably rip his ukrainian heart out.
And I'm amazed how calm Morrow seemed to be during the game against Jinro, hopefully he will take Hasu out as well.
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out.
That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win.
And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it.
PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose.
Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs.
well there's something called scouting man, you just can't win in this game by going blindly and just hoping for your build order to win, it's suicidal, because you never know when you'll make a little mistake and then pay for it tenfold... if you want, recall MC's interview -he is NOT blindly beating opponents- he said he wasn't worried about Ciara's growing army because he had observers always scouting it... Come on guys, i'm a big fan of HuK myself, but let's be honest, he did poorly (to his level of course, not that im better or something), both in decision making and in control, no paper-scissors-rock, just lower (than usual) level of play
On March 22 2011 02:01 ZasZ. wrote: MC is great, I'm not sure why he's getting so much flak for it. He is the best player in the world (right now) after all. It's also obvious (at least to me) that he's jesting for the most part, and enjoying his time in the spotlight. When it counts, his true nature comes out: wearing a TL patch in the GSL finals, reaching out to the foreigner community, etc etc.
Also this whole hero vs villain thing everyone has going with him is great for the community because people want to take him down. It's one of the things you need to make a superstar.
The difference between MC's BM and Ciara's BM is that MC's is in justified confidence and Ciara's is in bitter raging. There are obviously a ton of things Ciara could do to improve, so raging about losing to the best player in the world is a little immature.
The TL patch is a result of partnership between TL and oGs, not some shoutout to our community.
Disrespect is disrespect. If you want to observe a difference, then MC's disrespect is calculated while Ciara's is a result of uncontrollable emotion. Most philosophies would say MC's is worse.
If MC was like Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork/Savior/NaDa etc, then his confidence would be a little more fun. But he's more like if Kwanro or Backho won a few starleagues in a row. It'll just be better for everyone when his reign is over.
On March 22 2011 03:54 Welmu wrote: I think MC personally means his comments about his confidence as joking At least I get that kind of mindset reading MC's interviews´´
I don't. I think he is extremely cocky and self-centered. Other progamers interviews are almost exclusively outwardly focused, while MC takes the time to remind everyone how good he is. He needs an enormous humility check.
On March 22 2011 02:01 ZasZ. wrote: MC is great, I'm not sure why he's getting so much flak for it. He is the best player in the world (right now) after all. It's also obvious (at least to me) that he's jesting for the most part, and enjoying his time in the spotlight. When it counts, his true nature comes out: wearing a TL patch in the GSL finals, reaching out to the foreigner community, etc etc.
Also this whole hero vs villain thing everyone has going with him is great for the community because people want to take him down. It's one of the things you need to make a superstar.
The difference between MC's BM and Ciara's BM is that MC's is in justified confidence and Ciara's is in bitter raging. There are obviously a ton of things Ciara could do to improve, so raging about losing to the best player in the world is a little immature.
The TL patch is a result of partnership between TL and oGs, not some shoutout to our community.
Disrespect is disrespect. If you want to observe a difference, then MC's disrespect is calculated while Ciara's is a result of uncontrollable emotion. Most philosophies would say MC's is worse.
If MC was like Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork/Savior/NaDa etc, then his confidence would be a little more fun. But he's more like if Kwanro or Backho won a few starleagues in a row. It'll just be better for everyone when his reign is over.
Very fortunate then that we just have the man for the job right here.
I feel like MC's "bad manners" is not too far removed from the nearly-arrogant attitudes of other athletes, such as american football players. Touch down dances, saying you'll win before you go into a game, similar things.
I don't think it's necessarily bad, as long as he loses gracefully, which is to say, not saying that the winning player sucks or some similar statement.
I enjoy it, personally. As far as I know, he never BM'd a player after he lost, which is important. If he has, well, I'd probably like him a bit less. But he's still so much fun to watch play.
I think it's funny that MC will complain about the BM of a player not gg-ing, yet makes his armies dance and builds a nexus in July's base in the GSL. I really can't stand that kind of attitude from a player. Confidence is one thing, but cockyness is just irritating to me. I really hope White-Ra can take him down next round.
Day 2 was filled with a lot of upsets. While I'm sad to see HuK and Jinro go ( my gorilla buddy ) I kinda like that we'll see a lot of combinations people weren't expecting in the next few rounds. My bracket isn't too happy about it though haha
In all honesty, I just started watching the TSL VODs last night since I had massive insomnia from a fucked up sleep schedule from finals, and the TSL opening... just can't get over how fucking badass it is. Can't get over that shimmer, awesomely made, just screams "high quality."
On March 22 2011 02:01 ZasZ. wrote: MC is great, I'm not sure why he's getting so much flak for it. He is the best player in the world (right now) after all. It's also obvious (at least to me) that he's jesting for the most part, and enjoying his time in the spotlight. When it counts, his true nature comes out: wearing a TL patch in the GSL finals, reaching out to the foreigner community, etc etc.
Also this whole hero vs villain thing everyone has going with him is great for the community because people want to take him down. It's one of the things you need to make a superstar.
The difference between MC's BM and Ciara's BM is that MC's is in justified confidence and Ciara's is in bitter raging. There are obviously a ton of things Ciara could do to improve, so raging about losing to the best player in the world is a little immature.
The TL patch is a result of partnership between TL and oGs, not some shoutout to our community.
Disrespect is disrespect. If you want to observe a difference, then MC's disrespect is calculated while Ciara's is a result of uncontrollable emotion. Most philosophies would say MC's is worse.
If MC was like Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork/Savior/NaDa etc, then his confidence would be a little more fun. But he's more like if Kwanro or Backho won a few starleagues in a row. It'll just be better for everyone when his reign is over.
<3 <3 <3 I like white-ra's interview very much btw, I hope he can make it. And his (slightly) broken english is cute. If not, any of Nada/Boxer/Nony/Mondragon (I might forget some) would make me very happy.
Good series overall. Two huge upsets (To everyone who was saying that Hasu winning over huk wasn't an upset, even morrow says that Hasu was the underdog) to mix things up. Looking forward to the next set of matches
Cool to see Hasu beating HuK, the commentary from Husky and Wheat was so biased and everybody said ''LOL HUK ROFLSTOMPS HIM!!1'', but there u saw that HuK cant win everything and you should not be biased.
Rooting for anybody but MC at this point. I have HasuObs going deep in my bracket, so glad he made it through as well. Other than that, my bracket took a beating.
Can anyone tell me if all games are going to be played on NA server regardless? Or if say two koreans are playing, they use the Korean server, if two Europeans are playing, they use the Euro server? I'm guessing NA is used for Euro vs Korean, but NA vs Euro is probably on NA? etc.? Do they switch servers per game? Aka first game is on NA, second on Euro, third back on NA?
I did search for a Q+A on TSL which I'm sure exists but I didn't find it, if someone wants to point me there... :D
On March 21 2011 14:09 KashmirAZ wrote: MC's cockiness started off as real entertaining but now its just becoming annoying to me. I did however really enjoy Morrows interview it shows he put a lot of thought into his games.
Agree, if I had known he a prick like that, i ld have let my whitera advance in my brackets... my heart is now with him <3
On March 22 2011 02:01 ZasZ. wrote: MC is great, I'm not sure why he's getting so much flak for it. He is the best player in the world (right now) after all. It's also obvious (at least to me) that he's jesting for the most part, and enjoying his time in the spotlight. When it counts, his true nature comes out: wearing a TL patch in the GSL finals, reaching out to the foreigner community, etc etc.
Also this whole hero vs villain thing everyone has going with him is great for the community because people want to take him down. It's one of the things you need to make a superstar.
The difference between MC's BM and Ciara's BM is that MC's is in justified confidence and Ciara's is in bitter raging. There are obviously a ton of things Ciara could do to improve, so raging about losing to the best player in the world is a little immature.
The TL patch is a result of partnership between TL and oGs, not some shoutout to our community.
Disrespect is disrespect. If you want to observe a difference, then MC's disrespect is calculated while Ciara's is a result of uncontrollable emotion. Most philosophies would say MC's is worse.
If MC was like Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork/Savior/NaDa etc, then his confidence would be a little more fun. But he's more like if Kwanro or Backho won a few starleagues in a row. It'll just be better for everyone when his reign is over.
I read MC's as kind of a joking confidence that he does both to help with his nerve problems (which he has) and to intimidate his opponents. He is never really harsh or berating towards others, or really offensive, he just brags a lot.
Not too mention, 90% of the time he lives up to his own hype xD.
MC's cockiness is hilarious, always direct and spot on, and more importantly, obviously fake and intended to bring fun and joy to his fans. I mean sure, he's probably really confident, but saying things like "they're gonna have to complain to TSL administrators for having to play me in the bracket" are just for fun, very clearly.
As for ciara, that was kinda rude of MC, but being ciara I really don't care. The amount of BM he throws around is 1000000x MC's.
On March 22 2011 05:09 FabledIntegral wrote: Can anyone tell me if all games are going to be played on NA server regardless? Or if say two koreans are playing, they use the Korean server, if two Europeans are playing, they use the Euro server? I'm guessing NA is used for Euro vs Korean, but NA vs Euro is probably on NA? etc.? Do they switch servers per game? Aka first game is on NA, second on Euro, third back on NA?
I did search for a Q+A on TSL which I'm sure exists but I didn't find it, if someone wants to point me there... :D
Don't remember exactly where i read it but it was somewhere in the TSL threads. They will be taking turns playing on alternative servers. The higher seeded person will get to play on their home server first. So if it was a Euro and a Korean and the Euro was higher seeded, it would be Euro, then Korean, then back to Euro etc.
"Huk, now armed with 5 stalkers, takes advantage of his superior army and expands. Huk decides to as well, warping in a huge number of zealots making Huk unable to pressure him."
Pretty sure there's something off here (HuK vs. HasuObs game 2 description
Hasu such a nice guy , so mannered , saying that HuK is the better player even when he won the PvP, although HasuObs was better. How can someone hate him?!
On March 22 2011 05:09 FabledIntegral wrote: Can anyone tell me if all games are going to be played on NA server regardless? Or if say two koreans are playing, they use the Korean server, if two Europeans are playing, they use the Euro server? I'm guessing NA is used for Euro vs Korean, but NA vs Euro is probably on NA? etc.? Do they switch servers per game? Aka first game is on NA, second on Euro, third back on NA?
I did search for a Q+A on TSL which I'm sure exists but I didn't find it, if someone wants to point me there... :D
Don't remember exactly where i read it but it was somewhere in the TSL threads. They will be taking turns playing on alternative servers. The higher seeded person will get to play on their home server first. So if it was a Euro and a Korean and the Euro was higher seeded, it would be Euro, then Korean, then back to Euro etc.
From what I understand:
KR vs EU ---> NA server all the maps. Cause lag between EU and KR makes it unpleyable.
EU vs US and US vs KR ---> Home server based on seeding. Higher seed home server, lower seed home server, higher seed home server.
On March 22 2011 02:01 ZasZ. wrote: MC is great, I'm not sure why he's getting so much flak for it. He is the best player in the world (right now) after all. It's also obvious (at least to me) that he's jesting for the most part, and enjoying his time in the spotlight. When it counts, his true nature comes out: wearing a TL patch in the GSL finals, reaching out to the foreigner community, etc etc.
Also this whole hero vs villain thing everyone has going with him is great for the community because people want to take him down. It's one of the things you need to make a superstar.
The difference between MC's BM and Ciara's BM is that MC's is in justified confidence and Ciara's is in bitter raging. There are obviously a ton of things Ciara could do to improve, so raging about losing to the best player in the world is a little immature.
The TL patch is a result of partnership between TL and oGs, not some shoutout to our community.
Disrespect is disrespect. If you want to observe a difference, then MC's disrespect is calculated while Ciara's is a result of uncontrollable emotion. Most philosophies would say MC's is worse.
If MC was like Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork/Savior/NaDa etc, then his confidence would be a little more fun. But he's more like if Kwanro or Backho won a few starleagues in a row. It'll just be better for everyone when his reign is over.
I disagree that MC is showing any disrespect - if anything, he's showing huge amounts of confidence in himself - indeed, you would be perfectly right in calling him extremely cocky - but I don't remember when he actually outright insulted anyone else. He's honest about what he thinks his opponent's skill level relative to his is, and that's fine. I don't think that's disrespect. He never outright verbally BMs people like IdrA does. I do think that his "I'm the best and I'll crush everyone" attitude is still quite premature considering he's only won two GSLs, but I think that if anyone is justified in calling themselves the best right now, it's MC. From what I hear, MC was always very good but suffered from nerve issues, so he exudes extreme cockiness to help himself deal with them, and it seems to be working, so there's another point to MC's credit - he's not being cocky merely for the sake of it (though I don't deny that he also derives plenty of enjoyment from bragging ).
I sound like a huge MC fanboy and I definitely am, but let me justify my feelings a bit -, even though the TL patch may have not been a shoutout to the community, MC has done plenty of things to reach out to his foreign fans - most prominently, the english segments of his interviews and english twitter updates. It shows that he's been making sincere efforts to learn english, and if that's not a shoutout to the foreign community, I don't know what is, and I respect him for that, if anything else.
Oh, and all that aside, I greatly enjoyed your series against Strelok. The comeback in game two was incredible (I knew you'd won 2-0 from seeing the results already, and at one point I think there was a 50 food differential in Strelok's favor, so I was scratching my head wondering how you'd actually pull out a win), and that one hero Zealot really made my day.
On March 21 2011 14:09 rysecake wrote: Considering Ciara didn't even gg him, I'm perfectly fine with MC being an ass.
Yeah he has the right to be cocky against Ciara, even if you're mad that you lost you really should gg. It's the TSL, stuff like that goes on your reputation. I like MC's confidence though, yeah he's cocky but he's coming off winning the freaking GSL for the second time and he really is the best Protoss in the world so it's definitely justified.
On March 21 2011 14:09 rysecake wrote: Considering Ciara didn't even gg him, I'm perfectly fine with MC being an ass.
Yeah he has the right to be cocky against Ciara, even if you're mad that you lost you really should gg. It's the TSL, stuff like that goes on your reputation. I like MC's confidence though, yeah he's cocky but he's coming off winning the freaking GSL for the second time and he really is the best Protoss in the world so it's definitely justified.
Haha, let's get the order straight on this. MC started out by saying Ciara was bad even before the match started. THEN Ciara didn't gg. And now MC is rude.
On March 21 2011 14:09 rysecake wrote: Considering Ciara didn't even gg him, I'm perfectly fine with MC being an ass.
Yeah he has the right to be cocky against Ciara, even if you're mad that you lost you really should gg. It's the TSL, stuff like that goes on your reputation. I like MC's confidence though, yeah he's cocky but he's coming off winning the freaking GSL for the second time and he really is the best Protoss in the world so it's definitely justified.
Haha, let's get the order straight on this. MC started out by saying Ciara was bad even before the match started. THEN Ciara didn't gg. And now MC is rude.
Just sayin'.
I thought MC said that "he's not that great". Sure, it wasn't a compliment, but it's not the same as saying "He's bad." It's the difference between tact and lack of tact. And the fact that Ciara lost to 3gate pressure with MC not losing a single unit makes MC's comment true in my eyes: He's not that great. That is, however, not the same thing as saying "He's bad".
Personally, I don't see Ciara's lack of gg as BM, since it really wasn't a good game, but since it seems to be plain old traditional manners by now, I can see where MC's coming from. In most tournaments people gg even when they get cheesed out in obnoxious ways.
I seriously don't even see ogmsc being that BM here? He said his own opinion that he doesn't think Ciara and Loner are good, which is honesty. WhiteRa did win convincingly in the games that he didnt lose all of his units in an attack that left him unprepared for a counter. To someone with MC's deep knowledge of the game, it's safe to assume he can tell how good a player is. MC didn't BM WhiteRa at all, he acknowledged that WhiteRa has been very successful but is confident that he is better---when he has won all but 1 of his PvPs in GSL which was decided by SanZenith's clutch forcefield, there really is no reason to think otherwise.
I think he's just being honest. While it was BM of him to do the zealot dance and manner nexus in the GSL finals, it was a calculated mind-game. He later went on to say he respects July and thinks he's one of the best zergs. He didn't trash his opponent afterwards and say that July was horrible and didn't deserve to play him or something. He also beat SanZenith and later went on to say he believes San is one of the best protoss in the world. People saying they're tired of MC's cocky attitude baffle me, really. He never unnecessarily BMs his opponents beyond stating whether or not he thinks they're good, and acknowledges the people he has beaten if they did indeed play well.
Tyler stated he didn't like MC, and maybe since he is a member of Liquid he would know much better than me whether MC is truly a cocky BMer or it's just playacting, but as far as I can tell other Liquid members like Jinro and Huk really like him.
I gotta agree. I can only see it benefiting the whole sc2 scene having a personality like MC. Whenever I try to make my friends watch a sc2 match with me, the thing they are most interested in is who the two players are. Having a personality that is somewhat different from the average calm or raging nerd (the two stereotypes according to me) is a good way to make friends, who don't play the game, show interest in the game.
Is it me, or has this event drawn a huge amount of people to Teamliquid? Since day 1 of TSL 3, I havent seen fewer than 10.000 people online at all times..
I guess it just says how nice an event this has been so far!
On March 21 2011 14:09 rysecake wrote: Considering Ciara didn't even gg him, I'm perfectly fine with MC being an ass.
Yeah he has the right to be cocky against Ciara, even if you're mad that you lost you really should gg. It's the TSL, stuff like that goes on your reputation. I like MC's confidence though, yeah he's cocky but he's coming off winning the freaking GSL for the second time and he really is the best Protoss in the world so it's definitely justified.
Haha, let's get the order straight on this. MC started out by saying Ciara was bad even before the match started. THEN Ciara didn't gg. And now MC is rude.
Just sayin'.
Like HolyArrow said, MC did not say Ciara was bad, I believe he said something like he wasn't impressed by him or anything. It's VERY different to say someone's straight up bad (which MC didn't say) and that he didn't feel Ciara was anything special (which is along the lines of what MC did say). I can only guess that Ciara didn't GG because he was mad that he lost how he did as opposed to because of MC's pregame comments.
Omg you guys are making such a big deal out of this. MC is cocky and Ciara was bad mannered by not typing GG, end of story. No need to write a freaking book about it lol.
MC is awesome and I love his interviews. I hope he wins the whole TSL! :D My recollection of MC's original comment was that he was relating what he was told anyway, not that he was familiar with Ciara and was saying that Ciara sucks.
I like MC's badass style. It maybe is a bit douchebag-ish, but somehow I feel some sympathy, and yeah, well... he's telling the thruth; best protoss in the world!
Not gonna lie, didn't expect Huk's series going down the way it did but I enjoyed it immensely. I always thought Huk's micro was enjoyable to watch but seeing his opponent preemptively move back stalkers just as shots started getting fired at it made the PvP series extremely exciting. I am going to be paying more attention to formerly pro-level war3 players in the SC2 scene a lot more now. Can't wait to see if Ted or Grubby makes a successful switch to this game. Overall this series has been extremely entertaining and I enjoyed the casting on day2.
"However, I'm the best Protoss player in the world, and they will probably have to complain to the TSL administrators about having faced me in the RO16."
BALLER ALERT! BALLER ALERT! THERE IS A BALLER IN THE HOUSE!
wangabe, Grubby already switched to sc2 and is doing quite well. There are many ex-wc3 pro's doing really well in Sc2. Just to name a few: ToD, Kas, DeMuslim, Satiini, SaSe, CrunCher.
On March 22 2011 08:08 FeelTheBeaT wrote: wangabe, Grubby already switched to sc2 and is doing quite well. There are many ex-wc3 pro's doing really well in Sc2. Just to name a few: ToD, Kas, DeMuslim, Satiini, SaSe, CrunCher.
MCs attitude works well towards his marketing and hype, even if you don't like the guy you would love to watch someone take him out, think he succeeded in that After all these are pro gamers and play for cash
On March 22 2011 08:08 FeelTheBeaT wrote: wangabe, Grubby already switched to sc2 and is doing quite well. There are many ex-wc3 pro's doing really well in Sc2. Just to name a few: ToD, Kas, DeMuslim, Satiini, SaSe, CrunCher.
I really don't want MC to get far. I respect he is a good player but his attitude just rubs me the wrong way. Arrogant and cocky. "Perfect Play". people who play perfect don't lose to hydra drop all ins. i want to see him crushed and sent to the front of the humble pie line.
Wow, some pretty serious upsets so far. Can't wait to see how it all turns out.
Nice to see the foreign players taking it to the koreans.
Edit: Just got done reading MC's interviews...and honestly I don't know what to say.
His attitude is totally unbecoming of a world class player. Don't get me wrong, he deserves to be a little cocky, I mean he's won GSL twice now, so there is no doubt he is probably one of (if not THE) best players in the world. But seriously???
I think that attitude is completely unnacceptable tbh. The whole of the E-sports world has their eyes on MC, and he isnt exactly acting very sportsman like. Not only does his attitude paint a bad picture of him, but it detracts from E-sports as a whole. He needs to be an example, and show fans and sponsors that E-sports is the real deal, and not just a bunch of arrogant kids playing games.
On March 21 2011 14:09 rysecake wrote: Considering Ciara didn't even gg him, I'm perfectly fine with MC being an ass.
Yeah he has the right to be cocky against Ciara, even if you're mad that you lost you really should gg. It's the TSL, stuff like that goes on your reputation. I like MC's confidence though, yeah he's cocky but he's coming off winning the freaking GSL for the second time and he really is the best Protoss in the world so it's definitely justified.
Haha, let's get the order straight on this. MC started out by saying Ciara was bad even before the match started. THEN Ciara didn't gg. And now MC is rude.
Just sayin'.
I thought MC said that "he's not that great". Sure, it wasn't a compliment, but it's not the same as saying "He's bad." It's the difference between tact and lack of tact. And the fact that Ciara lost to 3gate pressure with MC not losing a single unit makes MC's comment true in my eyes: He's not that great. That is, however, not the same thing as saying "He's bad".
Personally, I don't see Ciara's lack of gg as BM, since it really wasn't a good game, but since it seems to be plain old traditional manners by now, I can see where MC's coming from. In most tournaments people gg even when they get cheesed out in obnoxious ways.
Frankly, I'd avoid that kind of over analysis of words when reading translated interviews. The little nuances tend to get garbled a bit when they are translated. In this specific case, what he said in Korean definitely has the vibe of calling Ciara a bad player.
MC's comments are very harsh sometimes but still I can't seem to hate him. I'm Terran but right now, I look up to MC more than any other SC2 player. Also, I'm keeping my eye on Thorzain.
On March 21 2011 14:09 rysecake wrote: Considering Ciara didn't even gg him, I'm perfectly fine with MC being an ass.
Yeah he has the right to be cocky against Ciara, even if you're mad that you lost you really should gg. It's the TSL, stuff like that goes on your reputation. I like MC's confidence though, yeah he's cocky but he's coming off winning the freaking GSL for the second time and he really is the best Protoss in the world so it's definitely justified.
Haha, let's get the order straight on this. MC started out by saying Ciara was bad even before the match started. THEN Ciara didn't gg. And now MC is rude.
Just sayin'.
I thought MC said that "he's not that great". Sure, it wasn't a compliment, but it's not the same as saying "He's bad." It's the difference between tact and lack of tact. And the fact that Ciara lost to 3gate pressure with MC not losing a single unit makes MC's comment true in my eyes: He's not that great. That is, however, not the same thing as saying "He's bad".
Personally, I don't see Ciara's lack of gg as BM, since it really wasn't a good game, but since it seems to be plain old traditional manners by now, I can see where MC's coming from. In most tournaments people gg even when they get cheesed out in obnoxious ways.
Yes correct he said according to the interviews post "All I know is that he’s not that great a player."
Seems people want to hear what they want to hear. Or read in this case. I doubt even Ciara would say he is a great player either because from his interview he seemed to think he was the underdog.
Finally finished watching all the matches and here are my comments.
MC was just better than Ciara full stop. The first game was just an amazing show of micro on MC's part when he micro-ed his zealots so well to block the lings from surrounding the stalkers. It gave me chills.
Whitera's win was deserved. Although I must say for all the talk that Loner isn't playing very well nowadays, he did give a good fight.
Hasuorbs I think deserved to win. He prepared well for HuK (based on his comments in his interview) and played good games. His cheese in the 3rd set was unfortunately not spotted by HuK and HuK cannot blame anybody but himself. In GSL you always see the Korean players check every corner of the map let alone their base for proxy pylons or bunkers etc. He just wasn't careful and at the top level you will get punished for it unfortunately.
Morrow's win felt like MC's win in the GSL final, ie games that Morrow won were identical with Morrow using the same strat. Have to say though that it looked pretty damn awesome when banelings blow up the racks and the SCVs.
Awesome games thus far. Can't wait for this coming weekend's games!
i also want to comment on a few posts about MC's attitude. i do agree, he comes across as a little arrogant at times. but i think that stubbornness and self-confidence helps in a game like sc. it's what keeps you working and practicing hard after taking hits.
On March 22 2011 09:36 Ridiculisk wrote: Wow, some pretty serious upsets so far. Can't wait to see how it all turns out.
Nice to see the foreign players taking it to the koreans.
Edit: Just got done reading MC's interviews...and honestly I don't know what to say.
His attitude is totally unbecoming of a world class player. Don't get me wrong, he deserves to be a little cocky, I mean he's won GSL twice now, so there is no doubt he is probably one of (if not THE) best players in the world. But seriously???
I think that attitude is completely unnacceptable tbh. The whole of the E-sports world has their eyes on MC, and he isnt exactly acting very sportsman like. Not only does his attitude paint a bad picture of him, but it detracts from E-sports as a whole. He needs to be an example, and show fans and sponsors that E-sports is the real deal, and not just a bunch of arrogant kids playing games.
Anywho, I'll probs get banned for that but w/e...
I personally don't think it's that unsportsmanlike, he never comes out and says, X player is the WORST player ever he just asserts himself in a big way, if anything it helps fuel the spirit of competition as when anyone goes up against him it adds the extra factor of "who will knock MC down a peg" rather then just the typical, good player X vs good player Y doing pregame interviews with all the humbleness and nicieties.
I don't know, a 2 base baneling bust seems too strong. It requires the terran to get early seige tanks after his expansion and might not even come in time for the banelings. In my opinion, the 2 base baneling bust is virtually unstoppable and it's hard to scout because the zerg could hide the baneling nest, like morrow did in game 1 where he hid it in his natural. Also, making a tighter wall is out of the question unless Jinro decided to make 5 barracks as a wall opposed to 3 barracks. If he did that, he probably couldn't even make out of some of his barracks because his other barracks would block marines coming out of those other barracks. I guess bunkers would work, but as I said, it's very hard to scout it. Maybe scouting with an extra barracks floating over the zerg's main might work...
On March 22 2011 11:26 Crazysane wrote: I don't know, a 2 base baneling bust seems too strong. It requires the terran to get early seige tanks after his expansion and might not even come in time for the banelings. In my opinion, the 2 base baneling bust is virtually unstoppable and it's hard to scout because the zerg could hide the baneling nest, like morrow did in game 1 where he hid it in his natural. Also, making a tighter wall is out of the question unless Jinro decided to make 5 barracks as a wall opposed to 3 barracks. If he did that, he probably couldn't even make out of some of his barracks because his other barracks would block marines coming out of those other barracks. I guess bunkers would work, but as I said, it's very hard to scout it. Maybe scouting with an extra barracks floating over the zerg's main might work...
It's fairly easy to hold and you'd definitely have siege tanks out by then - it's built to punish people who go for the medi/drop style play first rather then Siege first.
mc's overconfidence and arrogance makes me sick. bm like this is on the same level as rape and murder and pillaging. he is a dispicable human being and i have lost all respect for him
he is also ruining the legitimacy of esports, as the main demographic of people watching and playing videos games like this are males in their teens and twenties of which trash talking and banter is uncommon and generally unaccepted amongst.
On March 22 2011 12:08 cosmincontra wrote: mc's overconfidence and arrogance makes me sick. bm like this is on the same level as rape and murder and pillaging. he is a dispicable human being and i have lost all respect for him
he is also ruining the legitimacy of esports, as the main demographic of people watching and playing videos games like this are males in their teens and twenties of which trash talking and banter is uncommon and generally unaccepted amongst.
i'm not sure whether to take you seriously and report you or that you're being sarcastic. If you are being sarcastic pls put "/sarcasm"!!!
On March 22 2011 09:36 Ridiculisk wrote: Wow, some pretty serious upsets so far. Can't wait to see how it all turns out.
Nice to see the foreign players taking it to the koreans.
Edit: Just got done reading MC's interviews...and honestly I don't know what to say.
His attitude is totally unbecoming of a world class player. Don't get me wrong, he deserves to be a little cocky, I mean he's won GSL twice now, so there is no doubt he is probably one of (if not THE) best players in the world. But seriously???
I think that attitude is completely unnacceptable tbh. The whole of the E-sports world has their eyes on MC, and he isnt exactly acting very sportsman like. Not only does his attitude paint a bad picture of him, but it detracts from E-sports as a whole. He needs to be an example, and show fans and sponsors that E-sports is the real deal, and not just a bunch of arrogant kids playing games.
Anywho, I'll probs get banned for that but w/e...
I personally don't think it's that unsportsmanlike, he never comes out and says, X player is the WORST player ever he just asserts himself in a big way, if anything it helps fuel the spirit of competition as when anyone goes up against him it adds the extra factor of "who will knock MC down a peg" rather then just the typical, good player X vs good player Y doing pregame interviews with all the humbleness and nicieties.
I can not say I agree, I mean unless there is some kind of real personal differences you do not see this in other sports. MMA or boxing you see a ton of banter and talk before fights then once its done they tend to have full respect for each other, regardless of how good or bad the opponent is, MC just seems to keep the disrespect constantly flowing.
I am sure he does it to keep his own focus and confidence peaking though, but consciously doing it for the tournament? If thats true forget anything I have said then.
I don't get why people hate MC so badly. He stomped Ciara with only a 3 gate without losing any units, and the guy ragequit. What is he supposed to say, that he is a top Z? Wouldn't it be more arrogant and condescending to act like he was totally smashing S-Class players when the games went like that?
He was asked about Loner and said he didn't think he was playing too well. This doesn't seem too inaccurate. He thought WhiteRa was successful but that he would still win. Looking at both their PvP history, this seems reasonable.
It isn't like IdrA telling players to get self respect for playing a certain race or something. He is giving analysis of players which were requested, and quite fair.
nooooo, huk and jinro.... :'(, I had jinro going all the way...I'm really rooting for Tyler (teeeeler), but I don't know if he can stop the machine of MC, and/or maybe TLO have a breakout tournament against the koreans here :o
On March 22 2011 13:48 esaul17 wrote: I don't get why people hate MC so badly. He stomped Ciara with only a 3 gate without losing any units, and the guy ragequit. What is he supposed to say, that he is a top Z? Wouldn't it be more arrogant and condescending to act like he was totally smashing S-Class players when the games went like that?
He was asked about Loner and said he didn't think he was playing too well. This doesn't seem too inaccurate. He thought WhiteRa was successful but that he would still win. Looking at both their PvP history, this seems reasonable.
It isn't like IdrA telling players to get self respect for playing a certain race or something. He is giving analysis of players which were requested, and quite fair.
uhhh you dont realise... they are idra fans.. its ok if idra does it but if mc does it, its not ok... because he is not white.. jeez... get with the times will ya?
On March 22 2011 13:48 esaul17 wrote: I don't get why people hate MC so badly. He stomped Ciara with only a 3 gate without losing any units, and the guy ragequit. What is he supposed to say, that he is a top Z? Wouldn't it be more arrogant and condescending to act like he was totally smashing S-Class players when the games went like that?
He was asked about Loner and said he didn't think he was playing too well. This doesn't seem too inaccurate. He thought WhiteRa was successful but that he would still win. Looking at both their PvP history, this seems reasonable.
It isn't like IdrA telling players to get self respect for playing a certain race or something. He is giving analysis of players which were requested, and quite fair.
uhhh you dont realise... they are idra fans.. its ok if idra does it but if mc does it, its not ok... because he is not white.. jeez... get with the times will ya?
Haha it is not even like IdrA and MC do the same thing. MC states that he thinks he is better than certain players when asked, crushes them, then restates his assessment afterwards. If he doesn't think he is way better than someone he doesn't lie. When he was put in MVP's group in the selection for GSL5, he said he was okay with it because he could beat Hyperdub and July, even if he couldn't beat MVP, acknowledging his strength.
IdrA on the other hand says lots of players have little skill like Nestea. Or got luckly like Nestea or July. Or have no self respect because they play Terran. Or take losing for squirtle for good evidence that he, Idra, is the better player.
MC crushes everyone and is aware of it.
IdrA gets crushed then insults his opponents and people who do better than he ever has.
I don't want this to sound anti-IdrA. I do quite like him, think he is very skilled, and love how he will be honest in interviews. I don't really like his raging, but I can see past it.
I just can't see past people acting like IdrA and MC's BM similar. MC beats you and puts a manner nexus in your main to play mind games and show how far ahead he is. IdrA loses to you and calls you a talentless n00b who didn't deserve to win.
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out.
That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win.
And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it.
PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose.
Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs.
I don't buy into this "randomness rock/paper/scissors" thing. You can't say this on one hand then also say "well the better player should usually win". How do you explain MC's 86% win ratio in the matchup if it REALLYis randomness? If he wins because he is 10x better than the opponents like you say, then it isn't a rock/paper/scissors match. Can't be both! Please go look up the meaning of the word random on wikipedia or something because nobody seems to know what it actually means.
You heard some pro who doesn't like the matchup say this and are just copying their opinion without putting any thought into it yourself. If it was like this, the best player in the world should not have such a high win rate in the matchup. Link to his record: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/640_MC
I would love to actually hear a good argument for this randomness some people think seems to exist in PvP. Nothing said so far can be considered an argument because they're just statements without any evidence/support.
I said if a player is 10 times better (more like 100) then the randomness doesn't factor in as much. Jaedong has such good statistics in bw zvz because he's a billion times better than his zerg opponents. Still, if he chooses to 14 hatch, he's severely behind against a zerg opening 10 pool.
And please don't make assumptions about how I form my opinions. I'm a decent protoss player and I have personally beaten players in tournaments I never never ever should have because they're infinitely better than me. Turns out 90% of those wins were PvPs.
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out.
That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win.
And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it.
PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose.
Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs.
well there's something called scouting man, you just can't win in this game by going blindly and just hoping for your build order to win, it's suicidal, because you never know when you'll make a little mistake and then pay for it tenfold... if you want, recall MC's interview -he is NOT blindly beating opponents- he said he wasn't worried about Ciara's growing army because he had observers always scouting it... Come on guys, i'm a big fan of HuK myself, but let's be honest, he did poorly (to his level of course, not that im better or something), both in decision making and in control, no paper-scissors-rock, just lower (than usual) level of play
God, please play the game before you talk about it. There is no possibility to scout in between the scout probe's death and the first observer. Unfortunately this is the time window in which you and your opponent choose your strategies. You have to play blind, at least to some extent. You can kind of figure out by looking at his nexus (chrono), building placement etc. what he might be aiming for, but this still means verrry scarce information (randomness). MC vs ciara was a PvZ btw. My entire point was that PvP is random, not PvZ.
I'm not even a big HuK fan. He comes off as cocky sometimes and I just don't like his playstyle and actually prefer HasuObs'. Still, HasuObs is clearly the worse player and a big factor in why he beat HuK was the randomness of the matchup.
@Mandalor I really hope that "randomness of the matchup" will help White-ra against MC. Great games so far and I really love SC2 of being absolutely impossible to predict.
On March 22 2011 09:36 Ridiculisk wrote: Wow, some pretty serious upsets so far. Can't wait to see how it all turns out.
Nice to see the foreign players taking it to the koreans.
Edit: Just got done reading MC's interviews...and honestly I don't know what to say.
His attitude is totally unbecoming of a world class player. Don't get me wrong, he deserves to be a little cocky, I mean he's won GSL twice now, so there is no doubt he is probably one of (if not THE) best players in the world. But seriously???
I think that attitude is completely unnacceptable tbh. The whole of the E-sports world has their eyes on MC, and he isnt exactly acting very sportsman like. Not only does his attitude paint a bad picture of him, but it detracts from E-sports as a whole. He needs to be an example, and show fans and sponsors that E-sports is the real deal, and not just a bunch of arrogant kids playing games.
Anywho, I'll probs get banned for that but w/e...
Are you a competitive sports fan? There are a lot of pro sports players that are very cocky, and they bring in a lot of money because of their big personalities and attitude. I don't think it's bad for eSports. You don't say Kobe Bryant is bad for basketball because of his attitude, in fact millions of people love Kobe and he makes a ridiculous amount of money for the sport. In a way it's best to have people with different personalities as opposed to a bunch of humble, quiet guys. For eSports to be recognized globally as a 'real' sport, it needs people like MC.
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out.
That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win.
And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it.
PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose.
Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs.
I don't buy into this "randomness rock/paper/scissors" thing. You can't say this on one hand then also say "well the better player should usually win". How do you explain MC's 86% win ratio in the matchup if it REALLYis randomness? If he wins because he is 10x better than the opponents like you say, then it isn't a rock/paper/scissors match. Can't be both! Please go look up the meaning of the word random on wikipedia or something because nobody seems to know what it actually means.
You heard some pro who doesn't like the matchup say this and are just copying their opinion without putting any thought into it yourself. If it was like this, the best player in the world should not have such a high win rate in the matchup. Link to his record: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/640_MC
I would love to actually hear a good argument for this randomness some people think seems to exist in PvP. Nothing said so far can be considered an argument because they're just statements without any evidence/support.
I said if a player is 10 times better (more like 100) then the randomness doesn't factor in as much. Jaedong has such good statistics in bw zvz because he's a billion times better than his zerg opponents. Still, if he chooses to 14 hatch, he's severely behind against a zerg opening 10 pool.
And please don't make assumptions about how I form my opinions. I'm a decent protoss player and I have personally beaten players in tournaments I never never ever should have because they're infinitely better than me. Turns out 90% of those wins were PvPs.
On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote: Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking.
People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses.
The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited.
mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%.
Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy.
PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out.
That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win.
And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it.
PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose.
Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs.
well there's something called scouting man, you just can't win in this game by going blindly and just hoping for your build order to win, it's suicidal, because you never know when you'll make a little mistake and then pay for it tenfold... if you want, recall MC's interview -he is NOT blindly beating opponents- he said he wasn't worried about Ciara's growing army because he had observers always scouting it... Come on guys, i'm a big fan of HuK myself, but let's be honest, he did poorly (to his level of course, not that im better or something), both in decision making and in control, no paper-scissors-rock, just lower (than usual) level of play
God, please play the game before you talk about it. There is no possibility to scout in between the scout probe's death and the first observer. Unfortunately this is the time window in which you and your opponent choose your strategies. You have to play blind, at least to some extent. You can kind of figure out by looking at his nexus (chrono), building placement etc. what he might be aiming for, but this still means verrry scarce information (randomness). MC vs ciara was a PvZ btw. My entire point was that PvP is random, not PvZ.
I'm not even a big HuK fan. He comes off as cocky sometimes and I just don't like his playstyle and actually prefer HasuObs'. Still, HasuObs is clearly the worse player and a big factor in why he beat HuK was the randomness of the matchup.
The funny thing is, that "rock-paper-scissor" only played a role in the match Huk won.
In the first game he had bad micro with his initial 4gate attack and he threw away many units the whole game.
In the second game he produced blindly 2 immortals and countered Hasu's blinkstalker-build. He would be behind, if Hasu went straight for Colossi.
In the third game he forgot to scout his own base for probes/pylons.
On March 22 2011 21:41 Chill wrote: I'm not sure why the community suddenly expects players to tiptoe in their interviews. I didn't find MC BM at all and he crushed Ciara. I love him.
Really just a matter of taste isn't it, we can all argue/talk about it endlessly but that is just want it comes down to which of course ends up creating rivalry and interest which we all want.
Personally I can not stand it in any form of life, no matter how successful they are, it just comes across as someone who is shallow and under developed character; granted they could be completely different in day to day life.
Battle of the right and left, welcome to the human race.
So after all the lag complaints from Koreans. Does anyone know whether the lag from South Korea to the NA server is unbearable, or is it all just a myth? It seems like the Japan earth quake might've damaged the cables, so that's where all the complaints origin. Appearantly Boxer's wife twittered that his delay was around 2 seconds in his game versus nightend.
white-ra's a pretty humble dude. i like mc interviews and attitude, i find it all really funny lol. and he is the best toss so nothing wrong with him saying it. I can see him pvp'ing his way deeper into the tournament same way he did at the last gsl.
On March 22 2011 21:41 Chill wrote: I'm not sure why the community suddenly expects players to tiptoe in their interviews. I didn't find MC BM at all and he crushed Ciara. I love him.
The funny thing to me is that in BW where basically every player was so subdued "blah blah my opponent is very good I'll practice hard and hope that I can win etc.", so many people flamed them for having no personality. Now that we have someone who doesn't fit into the mold, there are a bunch of people complaining about it.
Personally I think it's a nice change and I hope MC continues his current success.
Love MC. Have to wonder if any haters ever played competitive sports besides soccer or something. Winners always rub it in your face after a touchdown, home run, whatever just a bit of showboating and get crowd excited no reason to get emotional about it. Winners are entitled to pride. Losers not so much which makes you stronger.
Too cocky but I kinda like it, adds flavor to the hype, I hope white.Ra proves him wrong.. I wonder what would MC say :D (please do an interview with the losers esp with MC if ever)
On March 22 2011 02:01 ZasZ. wrote: MC is great, I'm not sure why he's getting so much flak for it. He is the best player in the world (right now) after all. It's also obvious (at least to me) that he's jesting for the most part, and enjoying his time in the spotlight. When it counts, his true nature comes out: wearing a TL patch in the GSL finals, reaching out to the foreigner community, etc etc.
Also this whole hero vs villain thing everyone has going with him is great for the community because people want to take him down. It's one of the things you need to make a superstar.
The difference between MC's BM and Ciara's BM is that MC's is in justified confidence and Ciara's is in bitter raging. There are obviously a ton of things Ciara could do to improve, so raging about losing to the best player in the world is a little immature.
The TL patch is a result of partnership between TL and oGs, not some shoutout to our community.
Disrespect is disrespect. If you want to observe a difference, then MC's disrespect is calculated while Ciara's is a result of uncontrollable emotion. Most philosophies would say MC's is worse.
If MC was like Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork/Savior/NaDa etc, then his confidence would be a little more fun. But he's more like if Kwanro or Backho won a few starleagues in a row. It'll just be better for everyone when his reign is over.
It's all about character, and I don't mean the mushy "real" kind, I mean the limelight character.
That's one of the things that I like about this particular scene. Even though I love tennis, and golf, and other sports, those interviews are so "upstanding," where their opponents are "extremely good and played well, and I played well and was able to take the win today," whereas in this community people feel a little more comfortable crafting a character image for themselves.
It's really cool.
So, MC's character is the Super Villain who is so obviously infinitely better than everyone (in his mind) that he tells the Super Heroes his plan because he is so confident that even if they know the plan they cannot stop it, lol!
Did anyone notice, in game 3 of morrow vs jinro, the drone fake that morrow did when jinro's scv was in his base? He sent a drone toward his third so that jinro's scv could see it, and would think he was going for a quick third, when he was planning to do a 2-base baneling bust like in game one. That's some high level play right there.
On March 28 2011 13:46 Lobotomist wrote: Did anyone notice, in game 3 of morrow vs jinro, the drone fake that morrow did when jinro's scv was in his base? He sent a drone toward his third so that jinro's scv could see it, and would think he was going for a quick third, when he was planning to do a 2-base baneling bust like in game one. That's some high level play right there.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TSL3/TSL3_Logo_Banner_1.png){kind=logo}
TSL3![[image loading]](/images/flags2/dk.png)
ieS-Ciara < 0-2 > ![[image loading]](/images/flags2/kr.png)
oGsMC![[image loading]](/staff/Lovedrop/tsl3/m5s1v2.jpg)
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LonerPrime.WE![[image loading]](/staff/heyoka/tsl3/whiteraloner1.jpg)
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Oh well congratz goes to MorroW 
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/fRBV6.jpg)
Oh well, there's always next TSL...
