|
On February 10 2011 07:54 ALang wrote:
How is scrap station making the map pool every week.
I have no clue. They used scrap station in the last 2 GSL qualifiers and look at the # of protoss in code A. It's terrible. Protoss need a third base to be competitive, and that map offers no safe place against drops/banshees and is impossible to stop a 7:20 stim timing push without overly committing to cannons and sacrificing map control. The only viable protoss strategies on that map are 4 gate or proxy gate. Scrap station should have been removed months ago. This map was ok for protoss with beta void rays with 7 range and huge level 2 attack in order to get a lead, but without void rays, protoss can never leave their base, ever without leaving themselves completely vulnerable.
|
I would like to see all of the maps in the ladder pool except scrap station. Scrap is a very bad choise
|
I just checked GSL, pvt is 8-21 since season 1 and 1-8 last season on scrap station.
Protoss has a 38% win rate overall in pvt and a 28% on that map in gsl.
|
This map pool seems heavily in favor of the Korean Invites, who play on the GSL maps all the time now.
Europeans are kinda fucked. They're learning ICCup Testbug and Pawn Re. Probably nobody will take even more extra time to practice GSL maps for a single tournament.
|
On February 10 2011 08:20 darmousseh wrote:
I just checked GSL, pvt is 8-21 since season 1 and 1-8 last season on scrap station.
Protoss has a 38% win rate overall in pvt and a 28% on that map in gsl.
Thats counting season 1. Game changes alot sense then.
Last like 12 games pvt in GSTL toss has won all I think pvt lol.
|
On February 10 2011 08:22 darkwon wrote:
This map pool seems heavily in favor of the Korean Invites, who play on the GSL maps all the time now.
Europeans are kinda fucked. They're learning ICCup Testbug and Pawn Re. Probably nobody will take even more extra time to practice GSL maps for a single tournament.
So you realy think ppl from EU who qualified for TSL the biggest online SC2 tournament ever is going to practice maps like ICCup Testbug and Pawn Re used in small tournaments with smaller prize pool over the next month?.... get real pls.
|
On February 10 2011 08:25 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 08:20 darmousseh wrote:
I just checked GSL, pvt is 8-21 since season 1 and 1-8 last season on scrap station.
Protoss has a 38% win rate overall in pvt and a 28% on that map in gsl. Thats counting season 1. Game changes alot sense then. Last like 12 games pvt in GSTL toss has won all I think pvt lol.
Protoss are winning a lot in GSTL, but there hasn't been a single pvt on scrap yet. Protoss are winning by 2 basing on large maps or doing cool new strategies
|
On February 10 2011 08:27 TaKemE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 08:22 darkwon wrote:
This map pool seems heavily in favor of the Korean Invites, who play on the GSL maps all the time now.
Europeans are kinda fucked. They're learning ICCup Testbug and Pawn Re. Probably nobody will take even more extra time to practice GSL maps for a single tournament. So you realy think ppl from EU who qualified for TSL the biggest online SC2 tournament ever is going to practice maps like ICCup Testbug and Pawn Re used in small tournaments with very small prize pool over the next month?.... get real pls.
ESL is not really a small tournament, they`re doing small weekly cups but also the biggest ones in Europe (IEM).
|
Its nice to see more and more events gradually refreshing their map pools. GG.
|
scrap station is a bad choice..
|
Interesting how the iCCup maps aren't being considered, though I guess that might be reasonable considering their exposure to not be too huge at this point, especially compared to the GSTL maps. Perhaps TSL4 will be using iCCup maps.
Nevertheless, all these maps look quite good as candidates. Heck, I even like Scrap Station despite all the haters out there. At least it seems like a better option than Lost Temple, which doesn't seem to be a candidate.
I really hope at least one of the GSTL maps become official TSL maps. The games that I've seen from them have usually been nothing short of phenomenal compared to the current Blizzard map pool.
It's awesome seeing this first step towards the coveted "unified map pool."
|
On February 10 2011 08:29 darkwon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 08:27 TaKemE wrote:On February 10 2011 08:22 darkwon wrote:
This map pool seems heavily in favor of the Korean Invites, who play on the GSL maps all the time now.
Europeans are kinda fucked. They're learning ICCup Testbug and Pawn Re. Probably nobody will take even more extra time to practice GSL maps for a single tournament. So you realy think ppl from EU who qualified for TSL the biggest online SC2 tournament ever is going to practice maps like ICCup Testbug and Pawn Re used in small tournaments with very small prize pool over the next month?.... get real pls. ESL is not really a small tournament, they`re doing small weekly cups but also the biggest ones in Europe (IEM).
Keyword: small. I don't think IEM is hosting a major event in sometime so it shouldn't be a problem for most NA/EU players. Likewise if you consider the Korean perspective they have to practice maps for a league that has games 5 days a week for a massive prize pool. It would simply be unfair to the majority of people in the TSL3.
Interesting how the iCCup maps aren't being considered, though I guess that might be reasonable considering their exposure to not be too huge at this point, especially compared to the GSTL maps. Perhaps TSL4 will be using iCCup maps.
I don't see exposure being the problem. iCCup has been hosting tournaments for their maps for months now and a lot of work has gone into them. ESL has already started to use their maps and if the administrators of MLG have any brains they will likely start using a separate map pool as well. There may be other reasons, but I believe (and correct me if I am wrong) a large reason GSL maps have been chosen is simply because the majority of participants are in the GSL.
|
On February 10 2011 08:43 TT1 wrote:
scrap station is a bad choice..
Maybe you can elaborate for the community since your opinion is held in much higher regard than the random community members. Yay for TT1!
|
I would take out Scrap, Meta and I'm undecided on the last.
|
I kinda miss Lost Temple, but maybe too many consider it imbalanced, dunno actually but i just miss it. I don't feel like TL or TSL should completely copy (in this case) GSLs map-pool, you TL probably know best what u want in your turnament, so then go get it. and if you want our thoughts pls post some links so that everybody can check the maps out in detail. and I also feel like scrap-station is a really cheesy map, but even that can be entertaining, i just hope you choose it for the right reasons
all the best, and it's good to see new maps
|
holy shit!!! a good map pool!!!!
|
On February 10 2011 06:15 Ryalnos wrote:
The new GSL maps will also have seen greater tournament testing by the time the TSL pool will be finalized, so TL can have more confidence that they will have sufficient data to know which ones to cut.
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Right now there are the Go4Sc2 Cup (Sunday; 200€ for first; monthly final 500€), Sennheiser Cup ( 16 weeks on Saturday; 100€ for first; final with 3400€ prize pool), Viking Cup (Thursday; 50€ for first) and Cyborg Cup (Wednesday; 200€ for first) being held weekly, with the top level EU players attending and they all use iCCup Pawn Re and iCCup Testbug.
And as it seems more tournaments will follow.
So since this first February week, iCCup is not some kind of underground thing any more. There are part of ESL's map pool and part of every European top player's tournament life.
So they are tested in an extremely competetive enviroment by top level players right now and they will tell you whether they suck or not if you ask them in some weeks.
Opposed to that TSL3 might be the only reason players from EU have to practise on GSL maps at all.
I had nothing to do with SC:BW, so I might not be used to this as others, but this already feels like Korean bias to me. We have no idea if their maps are better (and I doubt that very, very much. it seems to me they just make their maps bigger, not better) and the iCCup Map Making Team is part of the foreign community (so we can actually communicate with them!) and yet you just ignore their hard work.
I wish my word was more important, as a player I'm too bad and inexperienced to be an authority for balance. So I really wish some EU players (like Morrow) will tell you that it would be totally reasonable to at least consider iCCup Pawn Re and iCCup Testbug.
edit: just realized how angry it makes me that so many people in the foreign scene are so focused on Korea and GSL , that they always ignore that we have players and especially mapmakers of equal skill.
|
I urge you all to consider a change to Metalopolis. We've seen some really great games on that map, but almost everytime people spawn close positions, we get the same rehearsed 1/2base play that ends prematurely. One easy change that would drastically improve the average quality of games on Metalopolis is to prevent two players from spawning close positions. There's already precedent for this with Shakuras Plateau, so it's not unheard of in the community.
|
I think everyone is missing some key points.
The TSL is going to be the largest online starcraft tournament to date (as far as I am aware. Could be wrong). In my opinion, this event is not the place to use maps that haven't seen major mainstream use. ESL weekly cups and Iccup map series events do not make it internationally mainstream.
Though the maps may be good and played by a few pros in ICCUP map series events, the majority of tip top players have never seen the ICCUP maps before. It would seem a little silly to organize one of the largest starcraft tournaments ever and then use maps nobody has really seen (relatively speaking).
"Hey MC, Fruitdealer, nestea, MVP, boxer, nada, come play in this huge ass international tournament to decide the best player in the world. The fans will go nuts! But lets play on maps you've never seen before and most of the viewership has never seen before because it's the output of a north american map team! No, they aren't necessarily better than GSL maps, but they have cool things like expansions with no gas that you have absolutely no practice dealing with."
Whether it's nice to hear or not, the ICCUP maps are not as mainstream as the new GSL maps. That's not to say they aren't great maps, but I think the TSL admins made the right decision in selecting the potential maps.
I urge you all to consider a change to Metalopolis. We've seen some really great games on that map, but almost everytime people spawn close positions, we get the same rehearsed 1/2base play that ends prematurely. One easy change that would drastically improve the average quality of games on Metalopolis is to prevent two players from spawning close positions. There's already precedent for this with Shakuras Plateau, so it's not unheard of in the community.
On the topic of the options we've been given, i'd really like to echo this statement as well.
|
I'm just happy to see new maps! If they are not balanced i hope they get thrown out before the real deal starts 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
