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On May 12 2014 15:56 HolydaKing wrote:
... because Dota 2 is growing.
Who cares about growing...as long as SCBW and Sc2 are still there. Play the game you prefer. I dont play a game cause it is popular
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I just feel that ever since tl moved it headquarters to nl they felt this extreme pressure to do "something" about it's declining traffic, as shown by their own quantcast profile, tl has lost a quarter of it's traffic during the last year.
I really don't think these curse-like sister sites are the answer, and this was the final nail in the coffin for tl for me personally- As someone who runs a business in the space of online marketing I just feel sad that this particular expertise so severely lacking inside the administration. You guys should take a look at curse and analyze their model a bit more if you are going to copy them. Start by hiring a new web designer and a conversion specialist and lock him with your new web designer in a room.
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Why when I go to LiquidDota in upper left it says Login or Register but as soon as a click back to TeamLiquid I am signed in..
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Teamliquid.net, ded site? Aliev gaems leave Teamliquid.net
Nah, great news even tho this doesnt change anything for me. ( I have already blocked other games than sc2)
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United States346 Posts
On May 12 2014 15:41 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 15:28 iNteLStyLe wrote:On May 12 2014 15:14 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 12 2014 15:04 iNteLStyLe wrote:On May 12 2014 14:39 boesthius wrote:On May 12 2014 14:22 iNteLStyLe wrote:Posted this in the other thread on LiquidDota.com: So how much did you guys get paid by Riot to leave LoL alongside dying game SC2 by removing Dota/Hearthstone? Lets be honest, when people think of Team Liquid they think of www.teamliquid.net, and whats on the front page? LoL streamers on the right, LoL tournament news on the left, and a bunch of news about SC2 players retiring. Yeah I see where this is going, Well Played! TL Really really dissapointed I'm just going to copypaste what Neo said in the reddit post: I think the Dota2 community should just appreciate what Liquid has done instead of looking for conspiracy theories, haha.
I can say without a doubt that a TL LoL standalone site will not happen. I play League and am more invested in League when it comes to an esport than anything else now, and this kind of posting is just really silly to me. You're reaching - I mean how does TL have anything to do with sc2 players retiring? I'm going to go look at the front page right now; and this is what I see: - Introducing liquiddota
- TI4 Compendium Released
- Proleague Round 3
- DK Winning Aint Easy
- Community News - SC2 article, SC2 article, SC2 article, Dota, sc2 article, Dota, Dota, Sc2 x4, Sc:BW, Dota 2
- Featured Articles: Dota 2 6.81 Patch, 20-20 With Dota 2 Alliance member, Top 10 games of Dota 2, Life winning Dreamhack(sc2)
- Featured Video - Gomtv game - Starcraft 2
- Spotlight - Sc2 map submissions, 20-20 with LoL player flame, NSA2 Recap(smash), Heroes of the Storm, Chobra interview
I think what you're trying to refer to is the sidebar, which is, more or less, a bunch of quicklinks into the forum. Even if you use a little common sense - wouldn't you think that TL would have done a LITTLE bit more than a small spotlight of two league threads if they were getting paid by Riot to make LoL an official part of Teamliquid? Come on. You can disagree and not like the change, but at least try to make some reasonable claims to why it's happening. Just saying the amount of LoL content on a website aimed specifically at BW/SC2 (so much so that they moved Hearthstone/Dota to different, separate sites) is a bit confounding. So the plan is to seperate content that TL covers to provide better content for those original communities, and yet the main site page that everyone knows and goes to when first thinking of TL (teamliquid.net) has featured LoL streamers on the right, LoL tournament discussion, LoL General, LoL Champion Discussion... Really? If you like LoL thats fine, I won't judge you but honestly why should there be even close to the amount of coverage that there is on a SC:BW/SC2 website? Also, why are the professional LoL players streams labelled as "featured" streams? This site doesn't cover LoL in any official capacity. I find myself a little surprised that I'm responding to such a post but I guess it's for clarity's sake so you don't continue to detract from all the hard work the TL Reds have put in. The reason why you see so much League stuff on TL.net right now is because it's what's left over from the blocked forum layout that was implemented. Tournaments used to have SC2, Dota2, BW, and League, same with General and the other blocks. Now that Dota2 has moved to LP.net, the front page looks like League is taking up more room now (as 1 of 3 games on TL, when it was once 1 of 4 games with Dota2). But wait, don't worry! In a few days, we will be returning to an older forum layout where League will take its rightful place in a small corner of TL.net under "Other Games". StarCraft2 and BW will return to its former glory on TeamLiquid, yay! I hope that calms your nerves a little about the impending Riot takeover. Cheers. I find myself a little surprised that you had to take such a condescending attitude towards a very valid point: What do you think when I see you guys suddenly moving Hearthstone/Dota to seperate pages, opening www.TeamLiquid.net and seeing this? http://i.imgur.com/ymaOFSP.jpgMaybe you should try to put things into perspective before you act like a smug asshole to someone else online, Cheers! For what its worth I appreciate you clarifying it, even through your rather negative and demeaning tone and diction. Whoa whoa whoa. I'm pretty sure I delivered you as much smugness as you deserved, good sir! Had you voiced your concerns appropriately, I would have reply in a more genial tone. :3 But instead, you hastily jumped to the conclusion that Riot had somehow paid off TeamLiquid (not once on just reddit, not twice on just reddit and TL but three different times to perpetual some kind of scare) to shift Dota2 away from the main site and cleverly disguise it as misdirection! Good thing R1CH can be paid off like that and spend all that time coding to make LiquidDota looks so nice. I hope he was rewarded generously! But in all honesty, if you had opened TL.net without your personal settings, you'd see that, hey League of Legends isn't taking up all that frontpage space on TeamLiquid's homepage. All that happened was Dota2 was moved out! But it was your own filters that removed SC2 and BW in the first place that suddenly made it appear League was everywhere. P.S. If you had said "hey yo, League is a shit game, why is it taking up all this space on TL?!", I think I'd be ok with it, haha. That would be your opinion and more power to you. But instead, you had to make this redonkulous notion of how TL got paid off by Riot and that's why I took the time to be smug. You had zero evidence to the contrary (besides your own skewed (filtered) point of view) but you jumped to the most absurd conclusion possible.
Pretty sure you could've maybe said "look at your filters, maybe that's why things are that way" instead of being a dick about it. I wasn't aware that real, genuine points should be answered with smugness and hostility, are you staff or something? Do you get paid to interact with the community like this? I'm not privy to how your filtering system works and how that would affect my front page view. Why assume that I'm out here to cause trouble and raise havoc and le reddit downvote brigade or something? You don't know me, you don't know my intentions and you don't know my dedication to this community. Maybe instead of attempting to paint me as the bad guy, you could've asked me about my filtering setting (forgot I had it on) explain where I was wrong, and move on.
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United States346 Posts
On May 12 2014 15:37 boesthius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 15:28 iNteLStyLe wrote:On May 12 2014 15:14 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 12 2014 15:04 iNteLStyLe wrote:On May 12 2014 14:39 boesthius wrote:On May 12 2014 14:22 iNteLStyLe wrote:Posted this in the other thread on LiquidDota.com: So how much did you guys get paid by Riot to leave LoL alongside dying game SC2 by removing Dota/Hearthstone? Lets be honest, when people think of Team Liquid they think of www.teamliquid.net, and whats on the front page? LoL streamers on the right, LoL tournament news on the left, and a bunch of news about SC2 players retiring. Yeah I see where this is going, Well Played! TL Really really dissapointed I'm just going to copypaste what Neo said in the reddit post: I think the Dota2 community should just appreciate what Liquid has done instead of looking for conspiracy theories, haha.
I can say without a doubt that a TL LoL standalone site will not happen. I play League and am more invested in League when it comes to an esport than anything else now, and this kind of posting is just really silly to me. You're reaching - I mean how does TL have anything to do with sc2 players retiring? I'm going to go look at the front page right now; and this is what I see: - Introducing liquiddota
- TI4 Compendium Released
- Proleague Round 3
- DK Winning Aint Easy
- Community News - SC2 article, SC2 article, SC2 article, Dota, sc2 article, Dota, Dota, Sc2 x4, Sc:BW, Dota 2
- Featured Articles: Dota 2 6.81 Patch, 20-20 With Dota 2 Alliance member, Top 10 games of Dota 2, Life winning Dreamhack(sc2)
- Featured Video - Gomtv game - Starcraft 2
- Spotlight - Sc2 map submissions, 20-20 with LoL player flame, NSA2 Recap(smash), Heroes of the Storm, Chobra interview
I think what you're trying to refer to is the sidebar, which is, more or less, a bunch of quicklinks into the forum. Even if you use a little common sense - wouldn't you think that TL would have done a LITTLE bit more than a small spotlight of two league threads if they were getting paid by Riot to make LoL an official part of Teamliquid? Come on. You can disagree and not like the change, but at least try to make some reasonable claims to why it's happening. Just saying the amount of LoL content on a website aimed specifically at BW/SC2 (so much so that they moved Hearthstone/Dota to different, separate sites) is a bit confounding. So the plan is to seperate content that TL covers to provide better content for those original communities, and yet the main site page that everyone knows and goes to when first thinking of TL (teamliquid.net) has featured LoL streamers on the right, LoL tournament discussion, LoL General, LoL Champion Discussion... Really? If you like LoL thats fine, I won't judge you but honestly why should there be even close to the amount of coverage that there is on a SC:BW/SC2 website? Also, why are the professional LoL players streams labelled as "featured" streams? This site doesn't cover LoL in any official capacity. I find myself a little surprised that I'm responding to such a post but I guess it's for clarity's sake so you don't continue to detract from all the hard work the TL Reds have put in. The reason why you see so much League stuff on TL.net right now is because it's what's left over from the blocked forum layout that was implemented. Tournaments used to have SC2, Dota2, BW, and League, same with General and the other blocks. Now that Dota2 has moved to LP.net, the front page looks like League is taking up more room now (as 1 of 3 games on TL, when it was once 1 of 4 games with Dota2). But wait, don't worry! In a few days, we will be returning to an older forum layout where League will take its rightful place in a small corner of TL.net under "Other Games". StarCraft2 and BW will return to its former glory on TeamLiquid, yay! I hope that calms your nerves a little about the impending Riot takeover. Cheers. I find myself a little surprised that you had to take such a condescending attitude towards a very valid point: What do you think when I see you guys suddenly moving Hearthstone/Dota to seperate pages, opening www.TeamLiquid.net and seeing this? http://i.imgur.com/ymaOFSP.jpgMaybe you should try to put things into perspective before you act like a smug asshole to someone else online, Cheers! I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't realize that your filters have taken sc2 and Bw off of the sidebar. However, when the user who opens up teamliquid.net that isn't logged in doesn't see what you posted in your link, they see this: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OsdJe48.png)
Did not realize this, thanks for letting me know and not being so demeaning about it, appreciated (:
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Blah i dont want to have to migrate between two sites for SC2 and Dota. TL was the only reason i started following Dota 
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
i posted some of my thoughts and reactions in a blog
here
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Idk how much I will follow that site coz I dont follow dota2 esport even tho I play dota2 100x times more than sc2.
BUT WHY IT IS FORCED MOBILE VIEW?
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Is it possible to still get dota news on the SC2 Liquid site?
It was pretty convenient being able to look at SC2 and Dota news at the same time.
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thanks finally free of that game.
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Awesome. 
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It probably makes sense to TL staff, but personally I dislike this change. The biggest inconvenience is that there is no longer a common calendar for all the games.
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Not gonna lie, my biggest issue with a separate site and the main reason I'm probably not going to use it is the lack of Community / Other Games forums...
I visit TL mostly for Dota 2 tournaments and "other stuff": One Piece, Heavy metal, other videos games, MTG, the dating thread, etc. All of those are part of my TL experience and are not available on LiquidDota.
On the other hand, it seems like the calendar on the main site no longer works for Dota 2 which leaves me no real other choice than to use both?
Not too too happy...
Congrats on the design though, looks great!
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on liquidhearth the link on the top to liquiddota is missing.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2014 08:05 Zealously wrote:So, as promised, here is a summary of what the interested staff members had to say about the idea of moving Dota2 to its own site: - The issue of too much content: Yes, filters exist. But as a rule of thumb, I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of TL's visitors do not know of or do not use filters, and first-time visitors were very likely to feel overwhelmed by the abundance of content - with Dota and two Starcrafts, there was so much of it that it became periodically hard to navigate. It is true that filters may be the most comfortable solution for established members, but if you come to a new site you typically don't want to go through the trouble of finding a filter function before you start browsing through the stuff you're interested in. With Liquiddota, TL goes back to being a source of Starcraft news, and thus more 'welcoming' for Starcraft fans visiting the site for the first time, whereas Liquiddota becomes a dedicated Dota site that runs no risk of confusing new visitors.
- Competition: Most of TL's competitors are dedicated sites. This ties in with the previous point in that a site covering many different games will be, in general, less attractive to a dedicated fan than a site covering your game specifically. The quality of content can be the same, or even slightly worse, on a dedicated site, and the fan that cares only about that single game is still more likely to go there, both for the sense of community and because it feels more natural to go to LiquidHearth than it does to go to LiquidSeveralGamesYouDontLikeAndHearthstone. The idea is that a dedicated site will offer more competition and attract more visitors than TL's Dota section did.
Also, I think it's fair to say that the Dota community as a whole views Teamliquid as "the Starcraft site that also does Dota" rather than "a Dota site like any other", and not without reason. Below is a quote by monk on the subject when Nazgul first brought up the idea of a separate Dota site.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 13 2014 20:44 monk wrote:
The way I see TL Dota right now is the same way I view Gosugamers HS coverage. Besides LH, Gosugamers actually has the best HS articles on the web right now. However, even though you might read a HS article by them linked on reddit, it's very unlikely that you'll stay on their site. There's just way too many games covered there and everything is impossible to find, especially HS content. As a result, there's no HS community there and their forums are barren. The same problem seems to be happening for Dota 2 on TL. As far as I can tell or what I've heard is that we have some best articles on the web, but articles aren't what are going to draw users to stay on the site if everything is so difficult to find and there isn't a sense of shared community
Relating to that, I've noticed that Dota has way fewer, if any, cool ancillary features compared to what SC2 currently has on TL or what LH is planned to have. SC2 currently has TLPD, FPL, and Liquibet. LH is planned to have a Deck Builder, Arena Simulator, and Puzzle Maker. To the best of my knowledge, Dota has none of that. I don't know the particular reasons for that but if Dota had its own site, there'd at least be additional room to put these features.
Although the HS move to LH was a much more drastic change than the proposed Dota move, I already see a lot of cool things resulting from it. I see 1 post users posting all the time. There's also a ton of HS blogs where there weren't before (we average about 1 blog a day). We almost never had HS blogs on TL and looking over blogs now, I don't think I see a single Dota 2 blog.
Speaking from experience working on LH, I enjoy working on the site a lot more and there's just so many more opportunities to display content. For example, we have a featured video everyday. In addition, because we don't have to compete with another game, each article we put out can get a lot more time on the front page. All in all, I think a new TL Dota site is a great idea and it'll be great for both the Dota staff and the building of a Liquid Dota community.
- With LiquidHearth in mind:
On May 12 2014 07:59 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 07:20 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Was hoping mod/staff would be able to answer....
How successful would you guys rate the splitting of Hearthstone from teamliquid? It was successful. It definitely wouldn't have worked putting it on TL frontpage and having HS, StarCraft, Dota, etc on it. If you were to compare LH to the option of keeping it on TL, it's not really even close in terms of how it can grow. Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 07:37 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I mean it's hard to say if teamliquid has been making good decisions recently, as their viewership has dropped to around 50% of what it was a year ago (going off of "active", as well as the activity I've been seeing). The real question is whether this will continue that streak or change it. This can be a really big nail in the coffin for teamliquid if it doesn't work out. In terms of traffic, viewership across all StarCraft sites has declined since 2012. I don't think this has much to do with any decisions we're making, it's just a reality in the scene. Dota was not growing on TL (at least not at the rate we consider acceptable) and the reason for this is because our Dota audience is just people that already use TL, not new users. This is because you have a site with a calendar not tailored to the game, with StarCraft icons, etc. It's not a very welcoming place for a Dota fan. This move at minimum will give our Dota staff and community a chance to grow. Status quo simply wasn't cutting it.
- Front page oversaturation: The separation of Hearthstone and Teamliquid alleviated this somewhat, but with potentially three games on the front page for some fans, it was impossible for the content we churned out to receive the attention it deserves. On some days, the articles on the front page would all be replaced within 24 hours, thus decreasing the amount of views that the different writer groups create. TL as a site wants to create great coverage for several games, and on the whole that's something TL succeeds in doing, but when something like 6 or 7 articles all go up within the span of a day, the content suddenly becomes overwhelming. For a fan interested in more than one game, there's suddenly too much, and too little attention given to the people that put hours in to create that content.
On that note, though this is a minor issue, there is some overlap once The International starts, and that tournament drowns out everything else for the duration of it due to its incredible magnitude. Remember last year, when WCS' Regional finals all took place during TI3? Do you remember the amount of content put out pretty much every hour? I swear at least one of the editors had a heart attack as a result.
- The issue of separation: A lot of people seem to feel like Liquiddota shatters the TL community, and I suppose in a way that is true. But the consensus was, and this is how I feel as well, that simply breaking TL down further with more and more sub-forums and sub-communities within a larger whole does not significantly aid the creation of a "community". The people that hang out in General tend to hang out in General, while those who frequented Dota did so and little else. Of course, there are a select few veteran members that browsed most of the site, but they are in the minority. The creation of Liquiddota is an attempt to create a Dota community with minor ties to TL (Starcraft), not simply a relocation of the site's Dota fans to another URL.
The purpose of the new site is to build a community for Dota fans much like other significant Dota sites available, and create a community just like a community was built around Brood War when TL first launched in 2002. People will come to Liquiddota as Dota fans and to Teamliquid as Starcraft fans, and those who really care about both games have the option to utilize the features including shared PMs and the like and visit both sites. It will be inconvenient for some users, yes, but long-term, Liquiddota allows for much more growth than cramming several games into the same site ever did.
- The "family" factor: One issue that was brought up was the concern that the different communities will feel much more separate now than as a single site, thus losing some of the "Family"-feeling that was present during the site's earlier years. Especially for those veterans that frequented multiple sub-forums, I see how this may be a concern. But if you feel like this is an issue, keep in mind that TL is massive now compared to five-or-so years ago. That sense of a tight-knit community was already half-gone with just how large the site has become. It wasn't possible, even for those who spend four hours a day on TL like some of us do, to know everyone byname.
Quote on the subject below:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2014 06:26 2Pacalypse- wrote:
I think you may be overselling the "family" factor. This may have been true once in the old days of BW, but now TL has become too big to have that feeling across the site. For example, and don't take this the wrong way, but I have never seen your account until a couple of days ago and you're a staff user with 9k posts.
The point is that you're much likely to have that feeling of family with people who share your interests. This is why I'm against sharing the non-game specific forums across the sites. I think our main focus should be in attracting new users and building new sub-communities, and best way to achieve this is by letting community creates itself and not by us micromanaging it.
- On the subject of having shared General/Community sub-forums: It's been brought up earlier in this thread, and it was brought up in the staff forums as well. I think the response was generally positive, though there are technical quirks to work out before it can happen. I think it is going to happen eventually though, provided the technical issues can be solved.
Hopefully that explains a few things.
Ok, I may be a little late to the party, but most of this argumentation is completely wrong. Yes, it is "how it is argued today", but it doesn't make it less wrong. Most of the points can be sumarised into "the average user is an idiot and we have to hold his hand", which seems to be the banner uniting any IT endeavour of these days - and sadly also the reason for the many pointless limitations in SC2 (such as the forced standart resource layouts and no "gimmicks" on maps, but also the stupidly dumbed down ladder system). If someone has the mental capacity to play SC2 or DOTA, that person can also scroll through the "overwhelming amount on content" on TL generated by having many games on one place. The front page articles change too quickly? Put more of them there! (Also, honestly, who even looks on the front page, when everything is neatly organised in the forums? I have seen the "front page" like twice ever, but I don't miss a single article.)
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hmm, I dont like this.
I come to TL.net everyday. Not just for SC2 or DotA, but the community. My main player-focus is dota2 atm, but I always clicked other news, and community threads, and blogs, and, and, and. This was why I came to TL.net, but from now on there will be no more DotA content on TL.net and there are no community threads on liquiddota. I see less value in this change.
And from what I see, there are more people that feel the same.
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because having two tabs in your browser is really a daunting and inconvenient task
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thank gods its prettier than liquidhearth
im gonna need to get used to this liquiddota :D
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
Mang, those team flairs look so cool on liquiddota
I'm jelly :o
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EPT
