Louis CK is really hitting it big atm, but come on, you're using a comic's bit as an argument? What a joke. There was an episode this season, where the whole focus was about Louis realizing that there were just some words that he couldn't say on stage if he wanted to keep his job. One of those words was the N-word. He brought in Joan Rivers to slap some sense into him, into realizing how much of an idiot he was being.
It's comedy. Sometimes comedians make a point, sometimes comedians don't. Comedians generally do not care if they believe what they say. Comedians have one goal above all, it's to make it funny, so that's the only thing you can know for sure that they're being sincere about when doing their routine. Quit being a cunt.
Comedy is very much a valid way of making a point. See shows like the Daily Show and the Colbert Report-sure, they're trying to entertain, but they are definitely using comedy to make political points. There are many ways to express your views or make points besides just flat out saying them. Comedy is one of them.
That said, I've always been a destiny fan, but he seems to choke or something at tournaments. If he can start improving on that and start placing in tournaments, then he definitely will have teams looking at him. The potential is there, and I think Destiny has the work ethic to make it happen. We'll see.
That's why it's called political satire.
I prefer my point more:
Saying words that have no meaning to you is in fact meaningless and low-brow comedy (if you can even call it that) at it's finest. It's as if you have Tourette's Syndrome while having no tolerance towards others and it embraces silly stereotypes. When people get mad, they say all sorts of stuff they don't necessarily mean. Hence T.S. They cannot really hold it back. -.-
Yes, it only has meaning if you give it meaning. But, why do people say stuff that is meaningless to them in the first place?
Sometimes it is better to be sensible than senseless in the public eye. That is why many of us keep personal thoughts to ourselves instead of blurting them out. We make self edits all the time like Louis said. In Destiny's case he cannot hold back the slurs and it's a lot like having Tourette's Syndrome. Something that cannot really be helped.
To be perfectly honest, and i know im going to get flamed lol, but i think that Destiny's playstyle is very 1 dimensional.
Yes, he managed to beat Bomber and Ace, but if he actually went out to Korea, or ran into them in an MLG and played them offline, i have no hesitation in saying that Destiny would lose. His style of play is so easily hardcountered and meta-gamed, espicially since it is such a unique style of play.
Additionally, and as Destiny has admitted himself, he will mix up his playstyle and play standard during a BoX, but Destiny has also admitted that his standard play is not as strong as his mass infestor style.
Furthermore, on the subject of the SotG hosts, specifically their success and their grounds to hate on Destiny, speficially Artosis and iNcontroL, who have not shown amazing results as of late, both are renowned BroodWar Players, which is arguably a much harder game than SC2, and neither of which are actually playing full time. Artosis is casting GSL, and iNcontrol just recently began to train full time again at the EG house w/ the rest of his teammates.
Also, on the subject of which team he would fit best in, i dont honestly know if he should be on a team. I understand that he has a large fanbase and that would help the team he joins, but his personality is very... far fetched(?) and unique to say the least. While some of the teams that you mentioned, such as vVv and Sixjax both have rather unique characters on their teams, (Major, im looking at you) im not sure that you can have multiple large scale personalities without instability.
Lastly, towards his potential as a player, he already plays/streams/practice/ladders etc etc at least 8+ hours a day, which is more than many people who are on a team, but yet still has not posted results. While practicing with a team CAN greatly improve your skill in the game (see ALL the korean houses, and partially the EG house), im not sure it would benefit destiny, assuming he chooses to stick with his Mass infestor playstyle, which he has already basically perfected to a science, and yet still has shown no results.
TL;DR: Put Destiny in a offline showmatch against Bomber or Ace or most other notables that he's played, and he will likely lose. Espicially if they are given a heads up ahead of time, becuase this will allow them to prepare for his style.
I dont know if you can hvae multiple personalites of Destiny's scale on the same team
SotG hosts are a bad exmaple, mostly becuase iNcontroL only recently started playing full time, and no one else on the show does play full time (tyler has said himself that he does not practice much)
His standard play is weaker than his mass infestor style
He has already imo practiced enough a day for long enough that he should be getting close to his potental as a player, and while a team does accelerate this, it would likely require him to switch styles, becuase he already has close to perfected his Ling/Infestor style.
Great Innovation =/= Great Player
He also has said that he doesnt want to join a team at the moment.
Edit: Disclaimer: I dont dislike Destiny, just arguing a point =P
On August 23 2011 03:30 monx wrote: One of the reason i dislike this guy is he's doing nothing to improve E-sports or help grow the SC2 scene. He's funny and creative but he's far from a team player and should stay teamless until he changes his egocentric attitude.
Skillwise, i think he's bad but entertaining.
But with his popularity and such, he's marketable for sure but far away of Huk's value.
This is very much the way i feel like it is. I also think with an infestor nerf his play level will drop very much.
I'm sorry, could one of you point out where Axlav did anything to 'improve E-sports' or 'help grow the SC2 scene'? That's the most idiotic metric I've ever heard in my life. 9/10s of the players in the game have done shit-all to improve e-sports or help grow the scene. They play a game and get paid to do it.
Though agreed his Infestor crutch isn't healthy, and he's no team player, which is kind of an important quality to be on a team.
Speaking of which, Destiny coaches almost every other day. Isn't that helping the scene?
On August 23 2011 06:09 Haegr9599 wrote: He has already imo practiced enough a day for long enough that he should be getting close to his potental as a player, and while a team does accelerate this, it would likely require him to switch styles, becuase he already has close to perfected his Ling/Infestor style.
Edit: Disclaimer: I dont dislike Destiny, just arguing a point =P
I think you miss an important element here. Destiny's 'practice' isn't focused. He mostly just ladders. Every pro discounts that as a way to truly 'practice'. Players like Nestea don't ladder at all (I've heard he ladders for fun and plays random, or does fun things and loses).
It'd be truer to say he's reached his peak practicing in a disorganized way mostly by laddering.
Being on a team would almost certainly help him if he took it seriously. But economically he's got no reason to do that. His stream already pays better than most SC2 pros can earn (especially since he's good enough to claim frequent payoffs from showmatches and coaching sessions).
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
after the incontrol win, destiny has looked horrid. its natural to think people have adjusted to his style. of cousre the real question is if one of his big wins is against incontrol...could incontrol be overrated at this point?
Rofl poor Destiny.. In all due respect though, Destiny can easily outgrow his little infestor play and start some Nestea Action. You never know guyses. Nevar Nao
On August 23 2011 06:09 Haegr9599 wrote: He has already imo practiced enough a day for long enough that he should be getting close to his potental as a player, and while a team does accelerate this, it would likely require him to switch styles, becuase he already has close to perfected his Ling/Infestor style.
Edit: Disclaimer: I dont dislike Destiny, just arguing a point =P
I think you miss an important element here. Destiny's 'practice' isn't focused. He mostly just ladders. Every pro discounts that as a way to truly 'practice'. Players like Nestea don't ladder at all (I've heard he ladders for fun and plays random, or does fun things and loses).
It'd be truer to say he's reached his peak practicing in a disorganized way mostly by laddering.
Being on a team would almost certainly help him if he took it seriously. But economically he's got no reason to do that. His stream already pays better than most SC2 pros can earn (especially since he's good enough to claim frequent payoffs from showmatches and coaching sessions).
Hm, truthfully, i think i agree with you. So without that element, were all back to "i dont like destiny, he shouldnt be on a team" or "i like destiny, hes the best playa eva" becuase we cant really make an accurate judgement to his skill level if he was to take up that kind of a practice enviroment.
I don't know why you are pulling other names in this, but I'll chime in.
They aren't renowned in the other sense of the word. Not the sense you use when you say BW is a harder game.
I would call them recognizable for different reasons other than their success at competing at the highest level in Brood War and even that is borderline internationally. Artosis' fame comes from his casting of the first TSL.
Incontrol's fame from BW comes from his leading of 88), the USA B team and winning WCG USA finals one year. That is it almost it when you look at the majors.
Not playing full-time is nothing more than an excuse and its a cop-out. Yes, Inc. is finally focusing on what matters to him most and to be honest, I don't expect much out of this but we'll wait and see.
You can mass game all you want, 8+ hours a day and your development gets stunned. That's why you need to perfect your practice in order to improve. I made many mentions to this before, but everyone has their own skill ceiling. You need to learn to adapt and all that jazz.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
except destinys multitasking is better than sjow and goody
Not sure if this post was meant to be a slight at EG, or a plug for Destiny? I think the entire question posed here, "what is Destiny's role in SC2?", is absurd. His place in the community is obvious, his skill level widely acknowledged, and his lack of a team entirely his choice. Not sure why Steven's career must be subject to so much scrutiny from the community, when many other pros get off the hook.
He hasn't taken games off anyone at major lan events. He takes games off people in what could be considered ladder games and in some show matches. I feel like this thread is just a destiny fanboi thread. Until he gets close to the championship bracket at an mlg, I wouldn't consider him to be good enough to be on any of those teams. No offense to destiny, his play is cool and he can take games off almost anyone, but so can most grandmasters.
On August 23 2011 06:09 Haegr9599 wrote: He has already imo practiced enough a day for long enough that he should be getting close to his potental as a player, and while a team does accelerate this, it would likely require him to switch styles, becuase he already has close to perfected his Ling/Infestor style.
Edit: Disclaimer: I dont dislike Destiny, just arguing a point =P
I think you miss an important element here. Destiny's 'practice' isn't focused. He mostly just ladders. Every pro discounts that as a way to truly 'practice'. Players like Nestea don't ladder at all (I've heard he ladders for fun and plays random, or does fun things and loses).
It'd be truer to say he's reached his peak practicing in a disorganized way mostly by laddering.
Being on a team would almost certainly help him if he took it seriously. But economically he's got no reason to do that. His stream already pays better than most SC2 pros can earn (especially since he's good enough to claim frequent payoffs from showmatches and coaching sessions).
Hm, truthfully, i think i agree with you. So without that element, were all back to "i dont like destiny, he shouldnt be on a team" or "i like destiny, hes the best playa eva" becuase we cant really make an accurate judgement to his skill level if he was to take up that kind of a practice enviroment.
Precisely, which are perfectly valid reasons, but people for some reason shy away from just saying what they feel and prefer to feel it's justified by something.
I think that EG's response on this is a little off, unless they rate some of their other team members at 2 or 3. Incontrol could be rated higher than Destiny for marketability, but nothing else, and the other EG members don't put out results much better than Destiny's and he's both more recognized and much more marketable.
On a scale of 1 to 10 where CombatEX is 1 and MC is 10, Destiny is probably a safe 5. He's down on skill, but high on fans and such. The social aspect.
But isn't the social aspect the bits we need to be working on? Most teams have barely a personality between them.
Hmm, Destiny has a lot of fans, but my personal opinion is that ladder/showmatch =/= performance in competitions against high level players. He beat Incontrol in one showmatch by 1 game and suddenly he becomes definitively better? I don't disparage his skill, but I wouldn't say he has something special or brand name to offer other than a fairly well-to-do Zerg, and a popular streamer.
Normally I stay away from all this stuff because I don't care but I winder what eg.alex would rank half of his roster to be honest. No results and hardly hear anything about any of them
destiny seems like a decent player and if he wanted i would think that he could get on a decent team. he puts in the hours and if he focused with dedicated practice partners, he could probably get some decent results. he would have to work on some of the things he said to ameliorate the business heads (e.g., lay off the pontification of the value of the word nigger). however, comparing him to other names on big teams (including eg), i think destiny is easily better.
however, why i really wanted to write this comment is because the op's statistics are so much bullshit. destiny has one of the biggest fan bases rivaling even idra. yet, you create a non-objective poll to determine his worth. you don't think that every one of his fans is going to elevate his worth? seems rather pointless.
Destiny getting put on a team is all dependent on what teams are willing to put up with some of the unfamily friendly things he says. Which leads me to believe that a team like EG would be willing to pick him up considering they have a very "fiery" spirit on their team in Idra. But it also comes back to Destiny saying he doesn't want to be on a team. But as a Destiny and EG fan I wouldn't mind the combination.
im sorry op but i dont agree with your " Do you think Destiny deserves to be put on known sc2 team?". If Destiny wants to get on a known team, he should make the effort of trying to get their interest and talk to them first. The way you put it is like you are asking if known teams should contact him first , wich i am not surprised none of them have yet since he hasnt put up the same results as players like Sheth and HuK for example since i beleave they were both approached by their own respective team. tl.dr. If Destiny wants to get on a known team, he should put in the effort and post some results, not wait for them to invite him
On August 23 2011 07:16 Kernen wrote: Destiny getting put on a team is all dependent on what teams are willing to put up with some of the unfamily friendly things he says. Which leads me to believe that a team like EG would be willing to pick him up considering they have a very "fiery" spirit on their team in Idra. But it also comes back to Destiny saying he doesn't want to be on a team. But as a Destiny and EG fan I wouldn't mind the combination.
That's a little beside the point, Greg is not only a former S-class player, but he's been one of the few foreign zerg players to ever churn out any positive results in major events up until Nerchio and Stephano came around. Destiny has got his attitude, and that's about it.
On August 22 2011 17:28 Sfydjklm wrote: destiny is the zerg equivalent of sjow/goody/elfi etc.
No, not at all.
He's more like the zerg equivilent of Sterling/incontrol etc. He's not a top tier player, he's good, but hes not top tier, Sjow has won SO many tournaments in Europe, if you're not recognising that, then don't use his name in a post o.O
Goody won 3 tournaments just last month and consistantly wins/takes high ranking.
Elfi, meh, maybe.
Well Goody/Sjow/Elfi aren't particularity good at starcraft 2 but they all devised styles that allow them to overcome their shortcomings and compete at the highest level.
No, just no. They are very good at starcraft 2, especially Goody and Sjow.
Goody's and Sjow's multitasking is not as good as of other top players, but they are better than many other players on the highest level in terms of decision making (openings, building/unit placement, attack timings, expansion timings, unit movement, etc. <- all those things make you "good at starcraft 2").
yes, so same things as destiny
except destinys multitasking is better than sjow and goody
EPT
