EPTI think that losing to Grubby is really bad, and makes it likely that Ace had no idea what Destiny's play-style was/is. I think Destiny is improving, but it seems likely that he will either someday form his own team, or else will remain independent. The options for which teams he should be on are ridiculous, at least until I think of the players that are currently on the teams. Those players presumably have had great success in the distant past, but Destiny certainly is at the same level of play as they are, though he is still not as eligible a team mate.
The Value of ROOT_Destiny in Starcraft 2 - Page 18
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pi_rate_pir_ate
United States179 Posts
I think that losing to Grubby is really bad, and makes it likely that Ace had no idea what Destiny's play-style was/is. I think Destiny is improving, but it seems likely that he will either someday form his own team, or else will remain independent. The options for which teams he should be on are ridiculous, at least until I think of the players that are currently on the teams. Those players presumably have had great success in the distant past, but Destiny certainly is at the same level of play as they are, though he is still not as eligible a team mate. | ||
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Aquilla
69 Posts
I think destiny should be given a chance but the team should set strict guidelines on the kind of behavior they expect from him. SC2 pros are starting to become superstars and all superstars should know how to put on a face for the camera and for the public. Same thing with sixjaxMajor: he has some public faux pas but Artosis talks to him and major learns. Then again I don't know if Destiny is the type to accept rebuking or even rules. I don't mind Destiny's "BM" so much but there are other things that are more pressing to change. We all know that Destiny is very outspoken but some things cross the line. For example, bashing race and/or religion. Saying things like "F*** the Koreans" or "Everyone knows relgion is a joke" on stream are things that make teams no want you. In a youtube vido, Artosis gets asked: "What do you think about recruiting Destiny" at which he repies, making a face: "nooooooooo..... I dont want to..." sixjax has Major who has a reputation of BM but for Artosis to be that against Destiny shows that Destiny is on a different level. Still i do believe that Destiny should be on a team. People say that he abuses infestors and that hes a 1 trick pony but why not? it works for him on the ladder and in most games. If he joins a team and participates in more major tournaments, I'm sure that he will become more versatile. I'm sure if Destiny is willing to put in the effort and make sacrifices in his attitude then he can be a strong player on a strong team. Good luck to Destiny | ||
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HEROwithNOlegacy
United States850 Posts
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Shaok
297 Posts
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Nazeron
Canada1046 Posts
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HereticSaint
United States240 Posts
On August 23 2011 08:53 HEROwithNOlegacy wrote: I agree with EGalex, anyone who thinks Destiny can beat top koreans on a regular basis with his style and mid-range mechanics is just not being realistic. I would put his skill at a 6, with a lot of room to improve given the right environment. Would love to see Destiny on a team like Sixjax or FXO and see what happens. He as CatZ, Kiwikaki, and slush have said is he is really stubborn. Which is a huge road block some times in improving dramatically, and quickly. So, the only way we measure players now is if they can regularly beat Koreans? Which Koreans are we talking about? I know a lot of the players who criticize Destiny get wrecked by "good/decent" Koreans. As for him being stubborn, sure that can be a bad thing. But it can also lead you to refining a strategy to a point that no one else has before. It could also lead you to a point where you are at a wall as far as your build order which forces you to improve your micro and strategy (ex: drops/multi-pronged attacks, etc) which is also good practice. | ||
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Zruku
United States35 Posts
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deepfield1
United States373 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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jambOng
United States86 Posts
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tabbott26
United Kingdom379 Posts
1. Personally, I believe Destiny should be on a team, as his market value can draw in numbers (so it is good for the team as a business model). Plus, you saw his play skill increase dramatically when he was a part of ROOT. He does have potential to be a lot better, especially if more people learn good counters to his style. 2. Personally, I believe Reign is the team for him, as it has been stated that Reign is kind of a team for people who are quite chilled about the whole team experience. Plus, although they just picked up giX, they only have 2 rostered zergs at the moment, leaving a space possibly open... 3. I put his skill level at 6 for many reasons. The main reason is that he only completely trusts 1 build, which is the roach/ infestor build. While this is currently efficient (especially in Korea, where everyone was taken by surprise by the build, including MMA, Boxer and MVP - see CSN's destiny interview at Anaheim), as I said above, once someone learns a hard counter to it, he's in trouble. However, he is extremely strong in knowing what is a good build, he just doesn't completely trust his ability to execute that counter build well enough. His micro is good, as is his macro to a reasonable degree, however I feel he needs to be a bit more aggressive (usually he waits for a set number of units before moving out). This can lead to him being contained and trying to keep in the game off 2 or 3 base... I could go on with this but I don't want to put you to sleep... 4. As above, I believe he is currently in the phase of his career where a good team will really help him improve. However, if that doesn't happen, I fear teams will start seeing him as a business opportunity, instead of seeing him as the player he is. Look at MMA for example (first player of that sort that I can think of....). He was average at best before his move to SlayerS, now having been taught by as good a player as Boxer he is a fabulously well orientated player (beating Nestea, generally regarded as the best currently in Korea) tldr; teams should see Destiny as a person who can develop his skills and strats more, not as a business item. | ||
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xAPOCALYPSEx
1418 Posts
On August 23 2011 09:39 Kluey wrote: So he beat EG'iNcontroL and a held his own against Liquid`HuK(tt) but he's not accomplished much? exactly | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On August 23 2011 09:39 Kluey wrote: So he beat EG'iNcontroL and a held his own against Liquid`HuK(tt) but he's not accomplished much? tournaments are accomplishments and count for something. showmatches are fun to watch and usually the players try to entertain the crowds (i am not saying these particular ones were so, but that is the standard). so, winning a few showmatches and no tournaments is not much of an accomplishment. | ||
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phathom321
United States1730 Posts
On August 23 2011 09:39 Kluey wrote: So he beat EG'iNcontroL and a held his own against Liquid`HuK(tt) but he's not accomplished much? Beat iNcontroL in a Bo7 ONCE. Almost beat HuK ONCE. If he always beat iNcontroL in Bo7's and always did good against HuK he is accomplishing something. + Show Spoiler + On August 23 2011 06:09 Haegr9599 wrote: To be perfectly honest, and i know im going to get flamed lol, but i think that Destiny's playstyle is very 1 dimensional. Yes, he managed to beat Bomber and Ace, but if he actually went out to Korea, or ran into them in an MLG and played them offline, i have no hesitation in saying that Destiny would lose. His style of play is so easily hardcountered and meta-gamed, espicially since it is such a unique style of play. Additionally, and as Destiny has admitted himself, he will mix up his playstyle and play standard during a BoX, but Destiny has also admitted that his standard play is not as strong as his mass infestor style. Furthermore, on the subject of the SotG hosts, specifically their success and their grounds to hate on Destiny, speficially Artosis and iNcontroL, who have not shown amazing results as of late, both are renowned BroodWar Players, which is arguably a much harder game than SC2, and neither of which are actually playing full time. Artosis is casting GSL, and iNcontrol just recently began to train full time again at the EG house w/ the rest of his teammates. Also, on the subject of which team he would fit best in, i dont honestly know if he should be on a team. I understand that he has a large fanbase and that would help the team he joins, but his personality is very... far fetched(?) and unique to say the least. While some of the teams that you mentioned, such as vVv and Sixjax both have rather unique characters on their teams, (Major, im looking at you) im not sure that you can have multiple large scale personalities without instability. Lastly, towards his potential as a player, he already plays/streams/practice/ladders etc etc at least 8+ hours a day, which is more than many people who are on a team, but yet still has not posted results. While practicing with a team CAN greatly improve your skill in the game (see ALL the korean houses, and partially the EG house), im not sure it would benefit destiny, assuming he chooses to stick with his Mass infestor playstyle, which he has already basically perfected to a science, and yet still has shown no results. TL;DR: Put Destiny in a offline showmatch against Bomber or Ace or most other notables that he's played, and he will likely lose. Espicially if they are given a heads up ahead of time, becuase this will allow them to prepare for his style. I dont know if you can hvae multiple personalites of Destiny's scale on the same team SotG hosts are a bad exmaple, mostly becuase iNcontroL only recently started playing full time, and no one else on the show does play full time (tyler has said himself that he does not practice much) His standard play is weaker than his mass infestor style He has already imo practiced enough a day for long enough that he should be getting close to his potental as a player, and while a team does accelerate this, it would likely require him to switch styles, becuase he already has close to perfected his Ling/Infestor style. Great Innovation =/= Great Player He also has said that he doesnt want to join a team at the moment. Edit: Disclaimer: I dont dislike Destiny, just arguing a point =P 2nd Edit: sorry for walls of text Also you sir, are the first person I have ever seen that shares the same opinion <3 | ||
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vdale
Germany1173 Posts
He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament. But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so. Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny. | ||
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HereticSaint
United States240 Posts
On August 23 2011 09:53 dAPhREAk wrote: tournaments are accomplishments and count for something. showmatches are fun to watch and usually the players try to entertain the crowds (i am not saying these particular ones were so, but that is the standard). so, winning a few showmatches and no tournaments is not much of an accomplishment. One dimensional playstyle defeats Koreans, news at 11. Old argument is old. On August 23 2011 10:04 vdale wrote: He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament. But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so. Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny. I didn't know your Gold league friend sometimes beat Korean pros with his decision making, best Gold Leaguer, evarrr. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
they are _terrans_ lol | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On August 23 2011 10:04 vdale wrote: He doesn't make up for his worse macro with his decision-making and wins tournament. But if you just wanted to say that his decision making is his strength .. ok, but I think it's a weird way to do so. Decision-making is also the strength of my gold-league friend, because he has worse macro than almost all of his opponents and he still manage to win 50% of the games. He must be the terran equivalent of Destiny. decision making is such a bad term. He makes up for his mechanical shortcomings by devising strategies that suit his style just like Goody and Sjow do. Winning tournaments, again, isnt a requirement when u play zerg. It took dimaga a year to win a major tournament despite being the best foreigner zerg for the most of that period. Lets shit on dimaga now. | ||
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xAPOCALYPSEx
1418 Posts
On August 23 2011 10:13 Sfydjklm wrote: decision making is such a bad term. He makes up for his mechanical shortcomings by devising strategies that suit his style just like Goody and Sjow do. Winning tournaments, again, isnt a requirement when u play zerg. It took dimaga a year to win a major tournament despite being the best foreigner zerg for the most of that period. Lets shit on dimaga now. Before Dimaga won major tournaments, he constantly and insanely consistently got first/second/thirds at multiple weekly cups almost every single week. His achievements page on TLPD is 45 entries long. Destiny's isn't even 10% of that (though that is mostly due to him not entering in the cups) The point being Dimaga proved he was consistent and beating the top top level players long before he won a super major tournament | ||
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