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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
+ Show Spoiler +On May 09 2011 01:41 mordanis wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 09 2011 01:16 bonerificus wrote:I think this is way over the line. Here is a reason: No professional institution (such as TL) should take measures to influence an individual's behavior when that institution is not involved. This is true for numerous reasons, and I don't feel like explaining all of them, so go look up "manipulation" for further research if you so desire. I promise as a History major that, in 9/10 situations, this results in negative consequences. What is happening here with IdrA is exactly that; Team'Liquid has decided that they do not like they way this particular person is currently behaving (Telling his Twitter followers to PM IdrA) and are creating punishment (The 90 day ban) to attempt to change it. Here is another reason: If IdrA was anyone else, chances are he wouldn't have been banned for this. If I, for instance, went to my twitter and retweeted that, I wouldn't be banned. Taking that into account, we reduce the equality level greatly more than it already has been on Team'Liquid. In other words, IdrA was banned because he is IdrA and not solely because of his behavior. A third: Look at this thread. I read a lot of it, and man is this community divided. When you do something this controversial, any community will spend more time bickering about what their emotion tells them to believe than actually reasoning out a solution. When things like this happen, we degrade quality here and throughout the site. So many people bitch about bad posters, but in all honestly, there is plenty of incentive to flame around here (I.E. bad posts don't come from thin air). A Fourth: Did you look at the Tweet? IdrA didn't tell anyone to harass Chill, and he didn't insinuate it either. If you really care about punishing someone for this that much (and I assume you care a whole lot) give everyone who flamed chill (not just sent him a message) a two day ban or something. And really, I think that fourth thing is the biggest thing that was done wrong here. This Show nested quote +After the ban, Idra encouraged his fans, through twitter, to harass and spam him on TL. Is quite obviously not true. The Tweet, Show nested quote +wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you just doesn't tell people to flame Chill. It doesn't, and I think that it is therefore on the simplest level not OK to ban IdrA for telling people to flame chill. I completely disagree, and I'd just like to tell you where Reason 1 Idra was actually temp'd because he called Cruncher a waste of life. I'm pretty sure that Idra wouldn't have been banned if he had just cooled his nerd rage slightly. I completely understand TL saying that it draws a line at saying that an individual has no right to live. It had nothing to do with Cruncher cheating or trying to manipulate Idra Reason 2 Again, the mods just said that Idra went over the line. Idra, with his history, would have been banned a long time ago, but his reputation as a programmer has kept him in. And obviously anyone who encourages people to spam mods via PM deserves punishment, but again this seems more like a perm than a 90 day offence. Reason 3 Actually, I agree that there is too much division over this. That being said, Idra has just been doing far too much to be let through without punishment. It comes down to the principle of precedence, which as a history major you should know quite a bit about. If they let Idra get away with it, how can they in good conscience punish a minor celebrity, or after that anyone. Quite the slippery slope. Reason 4 To say that his tweet didn't insinuate that he wanted Chill harrassed is absurd (Idra said "Everyone pm Chill if this upsets you"), but I'll ignore it. Idra's 90 day ban came from a combination of awful posting history, blatant lack of regard for site rules, his comment about Cruncher, and finally his inability to apologize for everything. Basically, I think the TL.net mods are completely in the right, in an awkward situation where Idra has made a lose-lose situation for e-sports. If they don't punish him, TL loses some of its reputation as a civil, mature community. If they do punish him, Idra fanboys rage and ... do whatever they do. Either way, e-sports loses, and for that I have lost respect for Idra. I like his style of play, but this is not something to let him live down.
Really well put, i tried to write something like this, but alas.. I agree 100% with this. This is a case of too much bad manner and ego. And it doesnt take a history major to see that  (no harm intended)
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On May 09 2011 01:16 bonerificus wrote:I think this is way over the line. Here is a reason: No professional institution (such as TL) should take measures to influence an individual's behavior when that institution is not involved. This is true for numerous reasons, and I don't feel like explaining all of them, so go look up "manipulation" for further research if you so desire. I promise as a History major that, in 9/10 situations, this results in negative consequences. What is happening here with IdrA is exactly that; Team'Liquid has decided that they do not like they way this particular person is currently behaving (Telling his Twitter followers to PM IdrA) and are creating punishment (The 90 day ban) to attempt to change it. Here is another reason: If IdrA was anyone else, chances are he wouldn't have been banned for this. If I, for instance, went to my twitter and retweeted that, I wouldn't be banned. Taking that into account, we reduce the equality level greatly more than it already has been on Team'Liquid.
In other words, IdrA was banned because he is IdrA and not solely because of his behavior.A third: Look at this thread. I read a lot of it, and man is this community divided. When you do something this controversial, any community will spend more time bickering about what their emotion tells them to believe than actually reasoning out a solution. When things like this happen, we degrade quality here and throughout the site. So many people bitch about bad posters, but in all honestly, there is plenty of incentive to flame around here (I.E. bad posts don't come from thin air). A Fourth: Did you look at the Tweet? IdrA didn't tell anyone to harass Chill, and he didn't insinuate it either. If you really care about punishing someone for this that much (and I assume you care a whole lot) give everyone who flamed chill (not just sent him a message) a two day ban or something. And really, I think that fourth thing is the biggest thing that was done wrong here. This Show nested quote +After the ban, Idra encouraged his fans, through twitter, to harass and spam him on TL. Is quite obviously not true. The Tweet, Show nested quote +wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you just doesn't tell people to flame Chill. It doesn't, and I think that it is therefore on the simplest level not OK to ban IdrA for telling people to flame chill.
if idra was anyone else he'd be banned harder than tdot.[/QUOTE]
You have to be kidding me with this response. I'm saying that if I went to my twitter page and retweeted this, I wouldn't be banned assuming I didn't post about it. IdrA tweeted that (which still isn't an invitation to attack) and is getting banned. Either you misunderstand my point or the issue.
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Would it have gotten the same time of ban if it wasn't idrA? Obviously people would listen to to him and all that, but if it was a normal poster who said the same thing about Cruncher, and reacted the same way toward Chill, Perma ban or a good laugh from Chill?
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bye bye teamliquid.fail! i was fed up with the ridiculous power hungry ass hole mods on this website anyway so now you have 1 less visitor, and may i take this moment to get myself banned by saying FUCK YOU teamliquid.net
thanks and have a wonderful time never making it anywhere because you are the most ridiculously strict forum in the fucking world. thanks for a terrible gaming community experience and good fucking riddance
User was banned for this post.
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I just wonder why TL keeps his stream in the streams section?
I have read the Nazgul post but I still don't agree. Is it for the viewers? Because I think people visit TL first and then possibly switch to viewing Idra second. Removing him would only maybe repel some die hard fans but I even doubt if that will happen. They removed the add so it's not about the money? They banned him so they obviously don't want his input on this site? Is it to not anger the masses even more and does it therefore indicates a regret in there decision?
My opinion and any others about the ban itself is irrelevant because we don't have the full story as to what happened behind the scene. I just wonder what TL has to win or lose with removing him from the stream section? Them doing so is indicative of something but I just don't know what.
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On May 09 2011 02:02 wimbowaia wrote:
Oh BUHUU! He called him a waste of life... OH NOES!... This is the internetz you sad bunch of liquid crybabies...
This is Team Liquid. If you don't like it, get out. None asked you to be here.
To me this is a great forum, and quality posters, long time members and progamers need to do something really awful to get banned, and Idra (who's all of the above) has sadly accomplished that several times now.
As you said though, the internet is filled by people who don't think twice about what they say, and none of them would dare to even open their mouths in real life.
That's why TL mods are fucking heroes for keeping this forum as civil as possible! Team Liquid ♥
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On May 09 2011 02:06 Tension wrote:
bye bye teamliquid.fail! i was fed up with the ridiculous power hungry ass hole mods on this website anyway so now you have 1 less visitor, and may i take this moment to get myself banned by saying FUCK YOU teamliquid.net
thanks and have a wonderful time never making it anywhere because you are the most ridiculously strict forum in the fucking world. thanks for a terrible gaming community experience and good fucking riddance
Bye, We will miss your active contributions to the site!
Wait a second.
I just wonder why TL keeps his stream in the streams section?
I have read the Nazgul post but I still don't agree. Is it for the viewers? Because I think people visit TL first and then possibly switch to viewing Idra second. Removing him would only maybe repel some die hard fans but I even doubt if that will happen. They removed the add so it's not about the money? They banned him so they obviously don't want his input on this site? Is it to not anger the masses even more and does it therefore indicates a regret in there decision?
No, its so that if he does not stream, its down to him being childish and punishing his veiwers(Just like he did with the 2 day ban, but he redirected the anger to chill).
They removed the ads just to be on the safe side I suppose.
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On May 09 2011 02:06 Tension wrote:
bye bye teamliquid.fail! i was fed up with the ridiculous power hungry ass hole mods on this website anyway so now you have 1 less visitor, and may i take this moment to get myself banned by saying FUCK YOU teamliquid.net
thanks and have a wonderful time never making it anywhere because you are the most ridiculously strict forum in the fucking world. thanks for a terrible gaming community experience and good fucking riddance
I sure am going to miss your 4 posts filled with incredible wisdom.
It's a sad day for the community to be losing such an involved member.
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IdrA deserved it, this is disgusting. I like his play and all but he acts like child sometimes.
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On May 09 2011 02:06 Tension wrote:
bye bye teamliquid.fail! i was fed up with the ridiculous power hungry ass hole mods on this website anyway so now you have 1 less visitor, and may i take this moment to get myself banned by saying FUCK YOU teamliquid.net
thanks and have a wonderful time never making it anywhere because you are the most ridiculously strict forum in the fucking world. thanks for a terrible gaming community experience and good fucking riddance
you could have posted this in any of the threads up now and it would still work.
if you really feel that strongly about it, at least put a proper argument, not just some general disgruntled farewell message.
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i dont mean this to be a flame but if i get banned for it so be it. What incontrol said to tyler on sotg was as right as rain. Team liquid is our only community website and when players livelyhoods are threatened because of petty squabbles on the forums, the owners of those forums need to re- look at their priorities. Is it it maintain an elite society of nerds who know all see all and do all in the name of the holy team liquid. Or is this site going to be a place for a community to grow. Idra is Bm, we know this, tl mod's and communitiy obviousl;y know this, so how can this get blown so out of proportion. 3 Months where idra cant post his stream on the biggest sc site in the world is 3 months where idra loses the viewers from this website, that simple. Are you going to reimburse him for that? Banned from the forums is one thing, banned from using your website is another.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 09 2011 02:06 Tension wrote:
bye bye teamliquid.fail! i was fed up with the ridiculous power hungry ass hole mods on this website anyway so now you have 1 less visitor, and may i take this moment to get myself banned by saying FUCK YOU teamliquid.net
thanks and have a wonderful time never making it anywhere because you are the most ridiculously strict forum in the fucking world. thanks for a terrible gaming community experience and good fucking riddance
I lol'd
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51601 Posts
On May 09 2011 02:03 S.O.L.I.D. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 02:01 BLinD-RawR wrote:On May 09 2011 01:43 JBrown08 wrote:On May 09 2011 01:40 BLinD-RawR wrote:
hypothetical situation or not,why would someone not want their stream to be listed on TL unless you hypothetically assume TL is not the best SC community.
and no because if a person did not want TL to not list his stream he would tell them to not list his stream,why would he need JTV to file a DMCA. Idra has told Teamliquid to not list his stream while he is banned; that is why they specifically stated in the original post that they are disregarding his wishes and listing it anyways. Also solid,no I do not think the system should change,it's worked for the last 9 years and there were no problems with it. There is a problem when people can get banned for making one post. What leads you to believe there isn't a problem? Just because people continue coming to the site? I love TL but the fact that there's no concrete, easily accessible ruleset is just a joke to me, I cannot comprehend it.
Actually if you really feel there needs to be a change go post in the website feedback forum where your post will actually be read.
As far as I care if you use common sense and post you won't get banned.
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On May 09 2011 02:06 Tension wrote:
bye bye teamliquid.fail! i was fed up with the ridiculous power hungry ass hole mods on this website anyway so now you have 1 less visitor, and may i take this moment to get myself banned by saying FUCK YOU teamliquid.net
thanks and have a wonderful time never making it anywhere because you are the most ridiculously strict forum in the fucking world. thanks for a terrible gaming community experience and good fucking riddance
If you never liked the forum then why did you read it? Leaving a community because someone who might not care about getting banned gets banned is unreasonable.
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On May 09 2011 02:10 Aurex wrote:
i dont mean this to be a flame but if i get banned for it so be it. What incontrol said to tyler on sotg was as right as rain. Team liquid is our only community website and when players livelyhoods are threatened because of petty squabbles on the forums, the owners of those forums need to re- look at their priorities. Is it it maintain an elite society of nerds who know all see all and do all in the name of the holy team liquid. Or is this site going to be a place for a community to grow. Idra is Bm, we know this, tl mod's and communitiy obviousl;y know this, so how can this get blown so out of proportion. 3 Months where idra cant post his stream on the biggest sc site in the world is 3 months where idra loses the viewers from this website, that simple. Are you going to reimburse him for that? Banned from the forums is one thing, banned from using your website is another.
how hard is it to read the opening post - the stream will be still shown.
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On May 09 2011 02:10 Aurex wrote:
i dont mean this to be a flame but if i get banned for it so be it. What incontrol said to tyler on sotg was as right as rain. Team liquid is our only community website and when players livelyhoods are threatened because of petty squabbles on the forums, the owners of those forums need to re- look at their priorities.
.... what?
In no way was Idra's livelihood threatened, and if it was, IT WOULD BE HIS OWN FAULT.
Is it it maintain an elite society of nerds who know all see all and do all in the name of the holy team liquid. Or is this site going to be a place for a community to grow. Idra is Bm, we know this, tl mod's and communitiy obviousl;y know this, so how can this get blown so out of proportion. 3 Months where idra cant post his stream on the biggest sc site in the world is 3 months where idra loses the viewers from this website, that simple. Are you going to reimburse him for that? Banned from the forums is one thing, banned from using your website is another.
reimburse him for that? LOL.
his stream will still be there but if it wasn't it would be his own fault!
as if it's owed to him. woooow
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On May 09 2011 02:03 S.O.L.I.D. wrote:
There is a problem when people can get banned for making one post. What leads you to believe there isn't a problem? Just because people continue coming to the site? I love TL but the fact that there's no concrete, easily accessible ruleset is just a joke to me, I cannot comprehend it.
There are the 10 commandments, which is a ruleset.
The fact that it is not as specific as the one you mentioned is great because it forces you to think before you post and use common sense, that way you will never have any problems on this site. There will always be holes in overly specific rulesets anyway.
And I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be banned for one post. If the post deserves a ban the poster should be banned. If it's your first time and the post not incredibly offensive/stupid it's only 2 days tempban anyway, so just a little reminder to be nice next time. I don't see how that is a problem.
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On May 09 2011 02:10 Aurex wrote:
i dont mean this to be a flame but if i get banned for it so be it. What incontrol said to tyler on sotg was as right as rain. Team liquid is our only community website and when players livelyhoods are threatened because of petty squabbles on the forums, the owners of those forums need to re- look at their priorities. Is it it maintain an elite society of nerds who know all see all and do all in the name of the holy team liquid. Or is this site going to be a place for a community to grow. Idra is Bm, we know this, tl mod's and communitiy obviousl;y know this, so how can this get blown so out of proportion. 3 Months where idra cant post his stream on the biggest sc site in the world is 3 months where idra loses the viewers from this website, that simple. Are you going to reimburse him for that? Banned from the forums is one thing, banned from using your website is another.
Unless something has changed since i last read this thread yesterday, idra isn't banned from posting his stream. If he decides to start his stream it will show on the site. He is banned from the forums though. Please read the op next time.
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Well TL has my support on this.
Even though I'm huge fan of Idra's playstyle his manner is horrible.
Hope to see more actions like that.
Imho insulting shouldn't be part of arguing.
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"So many dicks on the dance floor"
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EPT
