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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 09 2011 01:34 JBrown08 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 01:26 aguy38 wrote:On May 09 2011 01:18 NPHarris wrote:
I lold. Not much more you can do here.
"Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section."
...because we like money.
They removed their ad from his stream page. That is nice and all, but it is still a view on the site and indirect free advertising for Teamliquid provided by Idra's stream. It is in teamliquid's interest to embed Idra's stream (branding and all that other fancy marketing jazz; just because they don't get direct ad value from the page doesn't mean they get no value), and if it were not for his direct request that it be removed I would be fine with this decision. However Idra has personally asked that his stream not be listed on this site while he is banned and they are disregarding his wishes. Maybe they should re-work the stream link to just be a link to JustinTV and not to an embeded teamliquid page in the interest of transparency and accountability. *On a side note, if a person really did not want their stream to appear on teamliquid can justinTV file a DMCA takedown notice for reproducing copyrighted material? I am unclear how that would actually work for their streaming service.
Yes they can. They just need the black and white from Idra. But what does it profit them. It's sort of a no harm-no foul situation for them, as well as for TL. But I think TL should be firm on this one and extend the ban to the stream, just to avoid impropriety
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 09 2011 01:16 bonerificus wrote:I think this is way over the line. Here is a reason: No professional institution (such as TL) should take measures to influence an individual's behavior when that institution is not involved. This is true for numerous reasons, and I don't feel like explaining all of them, so go look up "manipulation" for further research if you so desire. I promise as a History major that, in 9/10 situations, this results in negative consequences. What is happening here with IdrA is exactly that; Team'Liquid has decided that they do not like they way this particular person is currently behaving (Telling his Twitter followers to PM IdrA) and are creating punishment (The 90 day ban) to attempt to change it. Here is another reason: If IdrA was anyone else, chances are he wouldn't have been banned for this. If I, for instance, went to my twitter and retweeted that, I wouldn't be banned. Taking that into account, we reduce the equality level greatly more than it already has been on Team'Liquid. In other words, IdrA was banned because he is IdrA and not solely because of his behavior. A third: Look at this thread. I read a lot of it, and man is this community divided. When you do something this controversial, any community will spend more time bickering about what their emotion tells them to believe than actually reasoning out a solution. When things like this happen, we degrade quality here and throughout the site. So many people bitch about bad posters, but in all honestly, there is plenty of incentive to flame around here (I.E. bad posts don't come from thin air). A Fourth: Did you look at the Tweet? IdrA didn't tell anyone to harass Chill, and he didn't insinuate it either. If you really care about punishing someone for this that much (and I assume you care a whole lot) give everyone who flamed chill (not just sent him a message) a two day ban or something. And really, I think that fourth thing is the biggest thing that was done wrong here. This Show nested quote +After the ban, Idra encouraged his fans, through twitter, to harass and spam him on TL. Is quite obviously not true. The Tweet, Show nested quote +wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you just doesn't tell people to flame Chill. It doesn't, and I think that it is therefore on the simplest level not OK to ban IdrA for telling people to flame chill.
I completely disagree, and I'd just like to tell you where
Reason 1
Idra was actually temp'd because he called Cruncher a waste of life. I'm pretty sure that Idra wouldn't have been banned if he had just cooled his nerd rage slightly. I completely understand TL saying that it draws a line at saying that an individual has no right to live. It had nothing to do with Cruncher cheating or trying to manipulate Idra
Reason 2
Again, the mods just said that Idra went over the line. Idra, with his history, would have been banned a long time ago, but his reputation as a programmer has kept him in. And obviously anyone who encourages people to spam mods via PM deserves punishment, but again this seems more like a perm than a 90 day offence.
Reason 3
Actually, I agree that there is too much division over this. That being said, Idra has just been doing far too much to be let through without punishment. It comes down to the principle of precedence, which as a history major you should know quite a bit about. If they let Idra get away with it, how can they in good conscience punish a minor celebrity, or after that anyone. Quite the slippery slope.
Reason 4
To say that his tweet didn't insinuate that he wanted Chill harrassed is absurd (Idra said "Everyone pm Chill if this upsets you"), but I'll ignore it. Idra's 90 day ban came from a combination of awful posting history, blatant lack of regard for site rules, his comment about Cruncher, and finally his inability to apologize for everything.
Basically, I think the TL.net mods are completely in the right, in an awkward situation where Idra has made a lose-lose situation for e-sports. If they don't punish him, TL loses some of its reputation as a civil, mature community. If they do punish him, Idra fanboys rage and ... do whatever they do. Either way, e-sports loses, and for that I have lost respect for Idra. I like his style of play, but this is not something to let him live down.
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I'm truly surprised no one has tried to bash open Idra's skull. I'm originally from the fighting game community and we don't have anybody like the Gracken. Generally, if someone were to behave like him he would be regulated with a fist to the jaw. Don't believe me? Just go to an MvC tournament.
Actually, why don't we encourage violence between players? It works so well in hockey.
User was warned for this post
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On May 09 2011 01:40 BLinD-RawR wrote:
hypothetical situation or not,why would someone not want their stream to be listed on TL unless you hypothetically assume TL is not the best SC community.
and no because if a person did not want TL to not list his stream he would tell them to not list his stream,why would he need JTV to file a DMCA.
Idra has told Teamliquid to not list his stream while he is banned; that is why they specifically stated in the original post that they are disregarding his wishes and listing it anyways.
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On May 09 2011 00:55 Klogbert wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 00:45 zedi wrote:If you don't take offense to that you've got to be either incredibly stupid or have severe emotional issues. If you really get offended by something like that over the internet, you really need to get out of your cage and start living in the real world. In the "real world" people can't call other people wastes of life without some sort of punishment. In the military you can lose half your pay for 2 months for something like that. So the "real world" argument has no bearing. The only world you apparently live in, is the virtual world, where demeaning other people gets you laughed, or high school which is the real world version of the internet.
The same thing still applies. Real life isn't military, and I don't get where your opinion is coming from. Don't get butthurt about everything that happens. Just like I don't get butthurt about your insulting either.
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People who admire Idra is simple retarded! Why? Here is something to think about...
Everyone think it's cool with people who say what they think, and stands for it. But when bming other people from time to time and say other players suck, are op and such is not something that you should look up to. Yes.. i'm thinking of idra when saying this
Me as a player can't even like idra even tho he is kind of good in sc2, cuz in real life he is the biggest loser i've ever seen really he shows it when he plays, when he do a intervju and when he post on TL. To take a game serius is one thing that i can accept from him. But trying to make others life a missery while doing it (Tell his fanbase to spam Chill, Saying other people suck when he has is own flaws to blame of losing games more than anyone.. and such) that is just imature and just proves that he has been a loser whole his life.
To have to much confidence is one thing in gaming ( MC, Idra, Huk haha ) But to trash talk other people is something you shouldnt get famous for.
Make a poll and make the whole TL community decide if he should get banned forever or stay.
Remember: Pro's should act mature and be someone for the other to look up to. Everone does that except idra atm.
/ Veasel - The one who doesn't approve on Trashtalking
User was banned for this post on top of a terrible history.
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On May 09 2011 01:24 LooseMoose wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 01:22 GeorgeForeman wrote:On May 09 2011 00:56 KuMa. wrote:
It's just ridiculous and a wrong decision by TL to ban him for 90 more days, imho. +1 I simply don't understand why he continues to get away with this crap. He should've been perma-banned until he was willing to come back and ask for a second chance. Let him try to convince the mods that he should regain posting privileges. Until he's willing to act like a responsible human being, he doesn't deserve to post. IMHO. You realize the post you quoted disagrees with you, right?
You realize that's why the "+1" was funny, right?
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On May 08 2011 23:23 HipsterBK wrote:
As if Idra's godlike troll status needed conirming. Im pretty sure the only thing that would actually have an effect were if EG stepped in and told him to cut it out.
As it is he gets free publicity and a larger group of people to watch his games (even if most want to see him lose)
(new account in fear of ban for supporting Idra)
How is your post exactly supporting Idra? You are saying that he is a troll and attention whore. Doesn't look like a compliment to me.
People should stop writing "I am fan of X and I think of Y". They bash 1 person and say that they are his fan in order to make their argument more valid which is a bullshit thing to do. In any case you shouldn't add "fan of person X" to your post as it won't add anything. I have seen too much of this crap in both fan club and stream threads in reccent days.
@OP: Nobody except Idra himself really knows how much he cares about this ban but I would've preferred a 30 day ban like last time when he had issues with mods. It really makes you think why they have to act like gods here. "We don't get paid so don't fuck with us" isn't really a good argument. There are so many bans for insulting and using profanity but at the same time mods do it all the time. It was explained that Idra fans may act the same way he does and thus they get more ragers and whiners but why doesn't the same rule apply for mods? Do mods consider their posts valueless, therefore allowed to say anything without consequences?
Only read about 40 random pages in this thread so don't really know if length of the ban was explained already but I am pretty sure I understand why they chose 90 days. After banning him multiple times for insulting mods and recieving 30 day bans they made a conclusion that Idra won't change his behaviour ( as he stated in private conversation with mods aswell ). This in almost any case will lead to permament ban but being a TL veteran and one of the top players in foreign scene and also active community member ( joins different shows and events like imbalanced show, state of the game, NASL, etc) it would've been a little too much.
So they tripled the last ban, making it a bigger punishment than last to see if 3 months can change his mind when 30 day ban isn't enough but still allowing him to return. Also banned members won't be allowed to join team liquid events and he is one of the few from earlier TSLs who still plays actively.
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On May 08 2011 23:42 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 23:38 S.O.L.I.D. wrote:
Teamliquid needs a concrete system for bans. It seems waaaaaay too subjective. There needs to be a list of rules, and if you break any one of them, you get a specific amount of points and they last for a specific amount of time. If you get more than X points, you're done until some of your points expire. No one should get banned for one post imo.
That's a little off topic though. IdrA deserved extra punishment, but 45x the punishment is something that's ridiculous to me. Especially since what IdrA said ("PM Chill if this upsets you") had nothing to do with harassing or spamming. I don't believe that he should be punished that much for how people interpreted his words. He should be punished for what HE did. This has been suggested, and the obvious problem this creates is that then people will accumulate as many points as they can without getting banned and mock the staff. Before you say "that won't happen", I'll say I've seen it happen numerous times.
I can almost guarantee that it will work better than the current system. I've been on forums where the system works fine.
Even if a points system isn't put into place, a concrete rules list is absolutely necessary. Something like this: http://www.smashboards.com/announcement.php?f=87&a=276 No subjective bullcrap, that's not fair to anyone.
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On May 09 2011 00:56 Stylus wrote:
They should make all of Idra's posts appear in pink and his signature should always read "All of my posts are made of sarcasm for your entertainment, I apologize if you find anything offensive" with a smilie face or something.
LoL, he would gone wild posting here and there 
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Quoting this, I'd also like a proper context...
On May 09 2011 01:18 superjoppe wrote:
Quoting an earlier post, why wasn't InControl banned for the demuslim thread?
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On May 09 2011 01:43 awwnuts07 wrote:
I'm truly surprised no one has tried to bash open Idra's skull. I'm originally from the fighting game community and we don't have anybody like the Gracken. Generally, if someone were to behave like him he would be regulated with a fist to the jaw. Don't believe me? Just go to an MvC tournament.
Actually, why don't we encourage violence between players? It works so well in hockey.
Yeah there's too little violence in the world.
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On May 09 2011 01:43 awwnuts07 wrote:
I'm truly surprised no one has tried to bash open Idra's skull. I'm originally from the fighting game community and we don't have anybody like the Gracken. Generally, if someone were to behave like him he would be regulated with a fist to the jaw. Don't believe me? Just go to an MvC tournament.
Actually, why don't we encourage violence between players? It works so well in hockey.
your so coooool. hate when people try to act tough online.
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Well considering what he posts it's very clearly deserved.
Would it be possible to still see his stream go online though? I know it seems a little bit odd to give viewers to a player that is banned from the site, but it's pretty annoying to tell justin.tv to email me every time he goes on. Consider it I guess =/
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30 days, now 90, possibly 270 days next ban, when will idrA learn? or does he genuinely does not give a fuck about getting banned?
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On May 09 2011 01:57 Manimal_pro wrote:
30 days, now 90, possibly 270 days next ban, when will idrA learn? or does he genuinely does not give a fuck about getting banned?
He has a reputition to live up to.
Idras acting like a little child D:
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49497 Posts
On May 09 2011 01:43 JBrown08 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 01:40 BLinD-RawR wrote:
hypothetical situation or not,why would someone not want their stream to be listed on TL unless you hypothetically assume TL is not the best SC community.
and no because if a person did not want TL to not list his stream he would tell them to not list his stream,why would he need JTV to file a DMCA. Idra has told Teamliquid to not list his stream while he is banned; that is why they specifically stated in the original post that they are disregarding his wishes and listing it anyways.
Streams are not listed if the streamer is banned anyway.
Also solid,no I do not think the system should change,it's worked for the last 9 years and there were no problems with it.
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Oh BUHUU! He called him a waste of life... OH NOES!... This is the internetz you sad bunch of liquid crybabies...
User was warned for this post
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On May 09 2011 01:57 Manimal_pro wrote:
30 days, now 90, possibly 270 days next ban, when will idrA learn? or does he genuinely does not give a fuck about getting banned?
It's the latter.
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On May 09 2011 02:01 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 01:43 JBrown08 wrote:On May 09 2011 01:40 BLinD-RawR wrote:
hypothetical situation or not,why would someone not want their stream to be listed on TL unless you hypothetically assume TL is not the best SC community.
and no because if a person did not want TL to not list his stream he would tell them to not list his stream,why would he need JTV to file a DMCA. Idra has told Teamliquid to not list his stream while he is banned; that is why they specifically stated in the original post that they are disregarding his wishes and listing it anyways. Also solid,no I do not think the system should change,it's worked for the last 9 years and there were no problems with it.
There is a problem when people can get banned for making one post. What leads you to believe there isn't a problem? Just because people continue coming to the site? I love TL but the fact that there's no concrete, easily accessible ruleset is just a joke to me, I cannot comprehend it.
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EPT
