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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
I am amazed at some of the remarks here.
It´s one thing to call someone stupid or a tosser when you are angry.
But it´s something else to call someone a waste of life or a stupid motherfucker(no Idra didnt say that, that was someone else).
Anyway being temp banned for 2 days for these insults is a small slap on the wrist.
If someone else with Idras number of warnings had done this, said person would have been permabanned for sure.
Why can´t people simply behave? I think maybe Teamliquid should treat everyone equally.
Incontrol had a point in the last state of the game. He said Teamliquid should become a bit more professional as e-sports evolves.
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On May 08 2011 07:39 Stark1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:11 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 07:09 Stark1 wrote:On May 08 2011 07:00 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:59 shmee wrote:On May 08 2011 06:55 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:53 shmee wrote:
I completely understand banning idra for his incendiary behavior, but has Team Liquid taken any action to punish Cruncher for ghosting idra's stream, which was the thing that started this whole mess? Does teamliquid have any kind of statement in regards to that? There's nothing wrong with joining the ladder at the same time as someone else. What action could we possibly take against that? So if you were streaming, and you got matched up against idra, and he magically knew everything you were doing only to find out later that he was checking your stream to see everything you were doing, you wouldn't have any problem with that? No. And thus TL continues to live up to its reputation for horrid, heavily biased moderation. How is A related to B? If someone beat me while I was streaming would I have a problem? No. So I'm biased? What? You're biased because you actively guarded Cruncher despite his admitted stream-cheating, then banned IdrA for calling him out on it.
No one has admitted to stream cheating. He sniped Idra. Learn the difference.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On May 08 2011 07:34 Tranqje wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:32 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:On May 08 2011 07:30 Tranqje wrote:
I tought your policy was not to take actions based on assumption. In fact, that was stated multiple times in this topic. So unless Idra literally said to a moderator he asked people to harras and spam chill that is nowhere to be seen in his twitter post.
If he did not do that then you pretty much banned him on an assumption?
What do you mean? He literally said that on his Twitter "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you" http://twitter.com/#!/idrajit/status/66276394849673216 It sais to PM Chill if you're upset because of his ban. it doesn't say to spam and harras him. for all we know he could have encouraged a friendly debate. is that a load of crap? most likely, yes. but you can't really prove it ^^
Trust me, we can. This was a deliberate vindictive reaction.
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Ya, I feel like this wasn't really warranted because it was off the TL forums. That said, I really don't care because despite being a rabid IdrA fan I don't care as long as his stream is up haha
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seconded can we reopen that thread it has so much potential
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United States42694 Posts
On May 08 2011 07:39 Stark1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:11 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 07:09 Stark1 wrote:On May 08 2011 07:00 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:59 shmee wrote:On May 08 2011 06:55 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:53 shmee wrote:
I completely understand banning idra for his incendiary behavior, but has Team Liquid taken any action to punish Cruncher for ghosting idra's stream, which was the thing that started this whole mess? Does teamliquid have any kind of statement in regards to that? There's nothing wrong with joining the ladder at the same time as someone else. What action could we possibly take against that? So if you were streaming, and you got matched up against idra, and he magically knew everything you were doing only to find out later that he was checking your stream to see everything you were doing, you wouldn't have any problem with that? No. And thus TL continues to live up to its reputation for horrid, heavily biased moderation. How is A related to B? If someone beat me while I was streaming would I have a problem? No. So I'm biased? What? You're biased because you actively guarded Cruncher despite his admitted stream-cheating, then banned IdrA for calling him out on it.
He admitted being on the stream but denied watching or listening to it during the game. I myself have had a stream open while waiting to play someone in bw and then asking them for the game once they finish the one they're in to avoid disturbing them. It's believable.
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On May 08 2011 07:02 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:02 Penecks wrote:We spoke with Idra and he stated that he does not regret his actions and will not change his behavior on our forums. Thus, we've decided to ban him for 90 days. Was the ban length influenced by this conversation? Would the ban have been lifted or revoked if he had apologized? Yes.
Well then he had it coming. He gets soo much leniency for being Idra and being a forum veteran.
Respect for him as a player but damned Idra, whats up with that stubborn "wont apoligize" attitude. Maybe he had a bad that but still his internet pride is nearly childish 
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Okay, been a long-time lurker and felt the need to register to say this, sorry if it's been brought up already:
I, personally, must've misunderstood Idra's twitter post then (not sure if Idra clarified it). He tried to get everyone to spam Chill's PM? I thought it was the opposite of spam - he knew some people would be upset about the 2 day ban (even if he himself wasn't), so instead of having everyone flame and spam on the forums like in the Idra fanclub thread, he wanted these people to PM Chill instead so he could tell them the reason
Maybe I just totally misunderstood that or maybe he underestimated the amount of people or something but to be frank when cruncher's sketchy excuse is accepted, Idra not actually wanting everyone to spam Chill should count for something too
edit: ok it has been brought up, "vindictive reaction" okay
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Seems fair. Additionally not removing his stream from the stream list is a good compromise for this to not upset too many of his fans. If Idra were not Idra he would have been permabanned long ago. Im and idra fan and its crucial that we dont make this Idra vs. TL fight.
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On May 08 2011 07:38 ibreakurface wrote:
Idra is scum, anyone who says he doesn't deserve a ban is being COMPLETELY bias. Looking strictly at the rules and idra should have been banned a looooonnnnnngggg time ago. His post quality is horrible considering it is either whining or BMing.
There is no proof of cruncher cheating, he said he had the stream open so he could get into the same game as idra.
Have you ever heard the expression "pot calling the kettle black"?
The very first post of the thread explicitly said no flaming or blatant insults.
On May 08 2011 07:39 JayDee_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:34 Tranqje wrote:On May 08 2011 07:32 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:On May 08 2011 07:30 Tranqje wrote:
I tought your policy was not to take actions based on assumption. In fact, that was stated multiple times in this topic. So unless Idra literally said to a moderator he asked people to harras and spam chill that is nowhere to be seen in his twitter post.
If he did not do that then you pretty much banned him on an assumption?
What do you mean? He literally said that on his Twitter "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you" http://twitter.com/#!/idrajit/status/66276394849673216 It sais to PM Chill if you're upset because of his ban. it doesn't say to spam and harras him. for all we know he could have encouraged a friendly debate. is that a load of crap? most likely, yes. but you can't really prove it ^^ Yea how many of his fans do you think he intended to PM Chill? 3? Clearly he was expecting Chill to get hit with tons of idra fanboy mail. idras stream link needs to be removed for a while. This is the only way to truly punish him.
I really don't think IdrA would be torn to pieces if his stream was no longer linked, it would just serve to further rile up the more vocal portion of his fanbase.
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this sucks.. but its your rules and your site, not much to do about it 
a loss for both sides
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On May 08 2011 07:39 Horse...falcon wrote:
For everybody's benefit Idra should follow Artosis/Day9/Tasteless's lead and just stop posting on TL anyway.
it's not like they stopped posting here due to the moderation lol
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On May 08 2011 07:40 Beyonder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:34 Tranqje wrote:On May 08 2011 07:32 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:On May 08 2011 07:30 Tranqje wrote:
I tought your policy was not to take actions based on assumption. In fact, that was stated multiple times in this topic. So unless Idra literally said to a moderator he asked people to harras and spam chill that is nowhere to be seen in his twitter post.
If he did not do that then you pretty much banned him on an assumption?
What do you mean? He literally said that on his Twitter "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you" http://twitter.com/#!/idrajit/status/66276394849673216 It sais to PM Chill if you're upset because of his ban. it doesn't say to spam and harras him. for all we know he could have encouraged a friendly debate. is that a load of crap? most likely, yes. but you can't really prove it ^^ Trust me, we can. This was a deliberate vindictive reaction.
Fair enough then 
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This ban is long overdue. Idra is supposed to be a leader for foreigner zerg players and he acts like a fucking child. Maybe a longer timeout is what he needs. 
In Cruncher's defense, the all in Idra planned in that game was shitty. Have you Idra fanboys ever tried to roach/ling all in on Tal'Darim, the biggest map in the current ladder pool, against a forge FE protoss? It sucks horribly and as long as you put two cannons down preemptively (as you fucking should on ladder, only greedy players like MC make one cannon) it's very easy to hold.
I'm not a Cruncher fan by any means (I'm with JP, I think he's boring as shit to watch) but it's fucking common sense that Idra wasn't going to win with that build, stream watching or not.
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Just want to thow in that from the reasoning of the 90-day ban i am a little bit surprised about the consequences, and would have expected a full ban. Either his behavior can be accepted, which then would not result in any ban, or not. Since the original post implies that he will stand by his behavior, i do not see what would make that behavior acceptable after 90 days have passed.
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On May 08 2011 07:38 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:32 Monolithic- wrote:On May 08 2011 07:27 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 07:25 Monolithic- wrote:On May 08 2011 07:22 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 07:20 scrim wrote:On May 08 2011 07:09 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On May 08 2011 07:07 shmee wrote:
Oh no in my first post I said I completely understood the reason for the ban. I'm not saying it's not right or not in TL's rightful authority to give idra this 90day ban.
My issue is that I feel like both idra and cruncher are in the wrong here. If it's Chill's opinion that stream ghosting isn't a punishable offense, then he doesn't see cruncher as being in the wrong. That's also completely fine, but this sets the precedent that TL can't punish anyone for ghosting a TL member's stream while claiming objectivity. You haven't been reading. Ghosting is not fine. There is no reason to assume Cruncher was ghosting, and even less proof of it. Then go get the fucking replay of the game and analyze it. Don't care enough to do so? Well, then your kind of moderation is horrible because there could be your damn proof but you aren't investigating it. IdrA won't release it? Go ask cruncher, he wasn't doing it after all, he shouldn't have any reason not to release it. Analyse what? What would you possibly find in a replay that would definitively prove that he was watching Idra's stream? You're just being stubborn. It was quite obvious that cruncher knew what idra was doing and he prepared perfectly for it. I don't see how cruncher being connected to idra's stream isn't proof enough. If he wasn't cheating and cared to avoid any accusations he would have closed the stream as soon as he was matched with idra. How is that obvious? I've played and seen hundreds of games where someone seems completely prepared, just because of luck or intuition. Just because someone looks ready doesn't mean they were cheating. I see nothing wrong with using the stream to join at the same time as Idra, then minimizing it. What's the difference between having it open and minimized? The difference is that it's pretty common for people to have dual monitors and CrunCher is OBVIOUSLY not going to admit to cheating. It's totally expected for him to say he had it minimized and muted because it was already proven that he was connected to the stream so it's not like he could deny that part. He lied about what cannot be proven/disproven. Him and IdrA have a grudge and IdrA constantly beats and BMs CrunCher. There's your motive. IdrA had every right to be angry about the situation, and banning him for something like this is totally unreasonable and biased towards CrunCher. Nope. You're wrong. 1.) Yes, cruncher is obviously going to admit to not cheating, but that does not mean he did cheat. That's stupid. 2.) There was nothing to "prove" when it comes to whether or not he was connected to the stream, he admitted he was, it's not like he tried to hide it like you're implying. 3.) Prove that "he lied" before you call him a liar, that's a pretty big claim. 4.) Motive for what? Stream cheating? His motive for connecting to the stream in the first place is the most obvious and logical assumption, he wanted to queue the same time as idrA. 5.) What situation did idrA have to be angry about? He started this whole situation. He assumed Cruncher cheated without evidence, then made an extremely bad manner comment on the forums about him because of said assumption. 6.) Regarding your mindblowingly stupid assumption that TL is biased towards Cruncher, um, that is beyond false. You can find in this vary thread pictures of idrA's ban history, if they have shown any bias at all, it's FOR idra, NOT AGAINST.
Nope. You're wrong. If you look at the character of the accused individual it's definitely something he would do. It's all about saving face after his pompous interview. This will go nowhere because there is no way to prove anything even though it's pretty obvious that CrunCher was cheating. The point is IdrA should not receive a ban for being mad about CrunCher being connected to his stream while they are playing.
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On May 08 2011 07:35 Carnagath wrote:
Sorry for participating with my low post count and everything, but does this thread serve any actual purpose other than "emergency Idra-fan pressure release valve"?
I'd guess it's partly that, and partly to keep this whole Idra drama bomb out of the longstanding 'Automated Ban List' thread, where it's ontopic, but would swamp all the other discussion for a week.
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On May 08 2011 07:38 ibreakurface wrote:
Idra is scum, anyone who says he doesn't deserve a ban is being COMPLETELY bias. Looking strictly at the rules idra should have been banned a looooonnnnnngggg time ago. His post quality is horrible considering it is either whining or BMing.
There is no proof of cruncher cheating, he said he had the stream open so he could get into the same game as idra.
That appears quite rude, at least on the level of "waste of life", don't you think?
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On May 08 2011 07:20 scrim wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:09 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On May 08 2011 07:07 shmee wrote:
Oh no in my first post I said I completely understood the reason for the ban. I'm not saying it's not right or not in TL's rightful authority to give idra this 90day ban.
My issue is that I feel like both idra and cruncher are in the wrong here. If it's Chill's opinion that stream ghosting isn't a punishable offense, then he doesn't see cruncher as being in the wrong. That's also completely fine, but this sets the precedent that TL can't punish anyone for ghosting a TL member's stream while claiming objectivity. You haven't been reading. Ghosting is not fine. There is no reason to assume Cruncher was ghosting, and even less proof of it. Then go get the fucking replay of the game and analyze it. Don't care enough to do so? Well, then your kind of moderation is horrible because there could be your damn proof but you aren't investigating it. IdrA won't release it? Go ask cruncher, he wasn't doing it after all, he shouldn't have any reason not to release it.
Watered down version of this.
IdrA won't hand out the replay because as he said in what got him banned, he couldn't care less if he was cheating. But Cruncher's acting as if he's all clear so go ask him for the replay and make it public. I really don't see why you haven't done this yet.
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EPT
