|
Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 08 2011 07:27 Chill wrote:
How is that obvious? I've played and seen hundreds of games where someone seems completely prepared, just because of luck or intuition. Just because someone looks ready doesn't mean they were cheating.
I see nothing wrong with using the stream to join at the same time as Idra, then minimizing it. What's the difference between having it open and minimized?
In all honesty, even sniping is dishonest. Blizzard has made it obvious that they want to use the ladder as the basis for their invite only tournaments, and this breaks the spirit of the ladder in general. As for whether or not Cruncher cheated, I personally think it's possible that he did. As a result, that simple possibility is enough to shape my opinion of him.
On the topic of the ban, I felt you were lenient in handing out a two day ban, I called it in one of the other threads that I expected the moderators were chatting about extending it but would likely decide against it as a show of restraint. Now, as a team, you guys get a lot of respect from me for sticking to your guns. It is unfortunate that you banned Idra for 90 days, I don't like the possible results, however your process seems thorough and correct and thus I can't argue against it.
I personally believe that moderation on a forum should be noticeable only if one looks closely, that it should exist in the background making the forums a safer place for all, and I think that the moderators often cross this line. However, I haven't quite figured out whether this is the fault of the Team Liquid moderators or the community of StarCraft II players, quite possibly it's a mixture of both.
|
Glad he was banned. He contributed nothing to the community and whenever he did post, it was uninformative spewed BS that no one cares for. Which is fine until he tried to rally people against volunteer moderators who spend their time out of their own lives without pay to clean it up.
|
A sad day for e-sports. What's up with heavy hitters acting like this!? @Chill, @idrA, @day9, @Tyler and @Geoff.
Act your age please. Dont call each other mother****ers, dont spur each other on by calling each other childish etc. These past few days have proved how far we have to go to become a decent community. This is not WWE for goodness sakes. I love you all, but seriously you guys?
We need to have a lockdown at the community center for this situation, Jimmy style.
I mean, c-c-c-c-ome on, we can be cool like a fool in a swimming p-p-p-pool!
![[image loading]](http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/71055_4701200588_3390006_n.jpg)
|
On May 08 2011 07:35 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:21 kasumimi wrote:
IdrA has contributed absolutely nothing to the community, besides encouraging whine and bad manner, imbalance discussions and calling day9 (who is contributing his life to the community) stupid in his face.
I am in awe that there are so many people supporting and look up to him, as he has nothing to show besides being a player who blames his losses on imbalance and dozens of idiotic defeats in major tournaments.
Banning him for 90 days changes nothing unfortunately.
I think idra have brought in more fans to the community than any other proplayer, so that a pretty stupied statement.
I doubt it.
|
On May 08 2011 07:34 diverzee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:24 NicolBolas wrote:
Some people are allowed to be jerks and get away with it to a degree. And that's understandable. Idra's a progamer, he has significant contributions to the SC2 community, and there's a reason to cut such people slack. But even for them, there are lines that cannot be crossed. And essentially attacking TeamLiquid.net itself, by encouraging harassment of moderators, is one of those lines.
Even if you don't agree with the initial 2-day ban that started this, that cannot justify Idra's later actions against the forum itself. Indeed, some might say that a 90-day ban is showing restraint; most people would have gotten an IP-ban on the spot for inciting harassment of mods. Now, what did he actually do? Idra called someone a waste of life (iirc), and pretty much anyone watching the stream had an initial, very human reaction, thinking "what an asshole cruncher is". So Idra posts something with a meaning not far from what most people in his situation's posts would have had. Not worth a ban. Perhaps Idra is a jerk, perhaps it's just one manifestation of his personality. He should've been allowed to express his personality on the forum, and for his fans. So Idra tells his army to PM chill. So what, noone can prove what his intentions were. Idra can't send PMs himself, so he asks for someone else to complain for him. Now, we're speaking of 15k viewers backing up his belief cruncher was a cheat, and that Idra's post showed an accurate position on Cruncher's actions. Not hard to see why people are unhappy Idra is the one being punished, being silenced, and being unable to express his personality and emotions. This 90 day ban is made out of spite, and because of the staff's pride.
Actually you are wrong, you can pm while banned. Stop trying to make idra look like some innocent little angel. Your perception is way off.
|
Germany2762 Posts
This Ban is well deserved.
|
|
|
On May 08 2011 07:34 Tranqje wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:32 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:On May 08 2011 07:30 Tranqje wrote:
I tought your policy was not to take actions based on assumption. In fact, that was stated multiple times in this topic. So unless Idra literally said to a moderator he asked people to harras and spam chill that is nowhere to be seen in his twitter post.
If he did not do that then you pretty much banned him on an assumption?
What do you mean? He literally said that on his Twitter "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you" http://twitter.com/#!/idrajit/status/66276394849673216 It sais to PM Chill if you're upset because of his ban. it doesn't say to spam and harras him. for all we know he could have encouraged a friendly debate. is that a load of crap? most likely, yes. but you can't really prove it ^^
I mean, he didn't say "go harass Chill" but Idra should know at this point that his rabid legion of fans are going to take that statement to mean "go harass Chill." You can't possibly think that he didn't know that would happen?
|
No matter what I wanted to write this would result in a ban. So i just say: sad Story. -_-#
User was temp banned for this post.
|
I'm glad this happened. I hope more sources of power begin excluding him from the community or even tournaments as long as such behaviour continues. I believe Idra does not care for other players, or the sc2 community. His actions are not what we need for this game to grow and become mainstream.
I have been following his stream for the last few days, and watched SoTG, cannot be more disgusted with his attitude in general. We need characters like Sheth, not Idra for this game to flourish.
I don't see the point in calling a lower caliber player a "fucking retard" just because he is lower caliber while 16000+ people are watching.
|
On May 08 2011 07:32 Monolithic- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:27 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 07:25 Monolithic- wrote:On May 08 2011 07:22 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 07:20 scrim wrote:On May 08 2011 07:09 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On May 08 2011 07:07 shmee wrote:
Oh no in my first post I said I completely understood the reason for the ban. I'm not saying it's not right or not in TL's rightful authority to give idra this 90day ban.
My issue is that I feel like both idra and cruncher are in the wrong here. If it's Chill's opinion that stream ghosting isn't a punishable offense, then he doesn't see cruncher as being in the wrong. That's also completely fine, but this sets the precedent that TL can't punish anyone for ghosting a TL member's stream while claiming objectivity. You haven't been reading. Ghosting is not fine. There is no reason to assume Cruncher was ghosting, and even less proof of it. Then go get the fucking replay of the game and analyze it. Don't care enough to do so? Well, then your kind of moderation is horrible because there could be your damn proof but you aren't investigating it. IdrA won't release it? Go ask cruncher, he wasn't doing it after all, he shouldn't have any reason not to release it. Analyse what? What would you possibly find in a replay that would definitively prove that he was watching Idra's stream? You're just being stubborn. It was quite obvious that cruncher knew what idra was doing and he prepared perfectly for it. I don't see how cruncher being connected to idra's stream isn't proof enough. If he wasn't cheating and cared to avoid any accusations he would have closed the stream as soon as he was matched with idra. How is that obvious? I've played and seen hundreds of games where someone seems completely prepared, just because of luck or intuition. Just because someone looks ready doesn't mean they were cheating. I see nothing wrong with using the stream to join at the same time as Idra, then minimizing it. What's the difference between having it open and minimized? The difference is that it's pretty common for people to have dual monitors and CrunCher is OBVIOUSLY not going to admit to cheating. It's totally expected for him to say he had it minimized and muted because it was already proven that he was connected to the stream so it's not like he could deny that part. He lied about what cannot be proven/disproven. Him and IdrA have a grudge and IdrA constantly beats and BMs CrunCher. There's your motive. IdrA had every right to be angry about the situation, and banning him for something like this is totally unreasonable and biased towards CrunCher.
Nope. You're wrong.
1.) Yes, cruncher is obviously going to admit to not cheating, but that does not mean he did cheat. That's stupid.
2.) There was nothing to "prove" when it comes to whether or not he was connected to the stream, he admitted he was, it's not like he tried to hide it like you're implying.
3.) Prove that "he lied" before you call him a liar, that's a pretty big claim.
4.) Motive for what? Stream cheating? His motive for connecting to the stream in the first place is the most obvious and logical assumption, he wanted to queue the same time as idrA.
5.) What situation did idrA have to be angry about? He started this whole situation. He assumed Cruncher cheated without evidence, then made an extremely bad manner comment on the forums about him because of said assumption.
6.) Regarding your mindblowingly stupid assumption that TL is biased towards Cruncher, um, that is beyond false. You can find in this vary thread pictures of idrA's ban history, if they have shown any bias at all, it's FOR idra, NOT AGAINST.
|
Idra is scum, anyone who says he doesn't deserve a ban is being COMPLETELY bias. Looking strictly at the rules idra should have been banned a looooonnnnnngggg time ago. His post quality is horrible considering it is either whining or BMing.
There is no proof of cruncher cheating, he said he had the stream open so he could get into the same game as idra.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On May 08 2011 07:34 Tranqje wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:32 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:On May 08 2011 07:30 Tranqje wrote:
I tought your policy was not to take actions based on assumption. In fact, that was stated multiple times in this topic. So unless Idra literally said to a moderator he asked people to harras and spam chill that is nowhere to be seen in his twitter post.
If he did not do that then you pretty much banned him on an assumption?
What do you mean? He literally said that on his Twitter "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you" http://twitter.com/#!/idrajit/status/66276394849673216 It sais to PM Chill if you're upset because of his ban. it doesn't say to spam and harras him. for all we know he could have encouraged a friendly debate. is that a load of crap? most likely, yes. but you can't really prove it ^^
Yea how many of his fans do you think he intended to PM Chill? 3? Clearly he was expecting Chill to get hit with tons of idra fanboy mail.
idras stream link needs to be removed for a while. This is the only way to truly punish him.
|
On May 08 2011 07:11 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:09 Stark1 wrote:On May 08 2011 07:00 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:59 shmee wrote:On May 08 2011 06:55 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 06:53 shmee wrote:
I completely understand banning idra for his incendiary behavior, but has Team Liquid taken any action to punish Cruncher for ghosting idra's stream, which was the thing that started this whole mess? Does teamliquid have any kind of statement in regards to that? There's nothing wrong with joining the ladder at the same time as someone else. What action could we possibly take against that? So if you were streaming, and you got matched up against idra, and he magically knew everything you were doing only to find out later that he was checking your stream to see everything you were doing, you wouldn't have any problem with that? No. And thus TL continues to live up to its reputation for horrid, heavily biased moderation. How is A related to B? If someone beat me while I was streaming would I have a problem? No. So I'm biased? What?
You're biased because you actively guarded Cruncher despite his admitted stream-cheating, then banned IdrA for calling him out on it.
|
For everybody's benefit Idra should follow Artosis/Day9/Tasteless's lead and just stop posting on TL anyway.
|
I hate Idra's bm, and definitely think he deserves a ban, but, imo, there is no reason not to ban Cruncher for a least a few days as well. He openly admitted stream sniping, and having Idras stream up while playing, which is really BM for such a professional player to begin with, and then he does really childish things like spamming pylons and assimilators all over the map to annoy Idra further. Imo, that's a really douchebag thing to do, especially considering Crunchers past history with Idra.
|
the one question i have about this 90 day ban is why has the tl staff taken on itself to moderate what happens beyond the forums? are we now going to see bannings and warnings for what happens on reddit, twitter, facebook?!
chill the tl moderator is surely supposed to be a different person to chill the person. and any issues between chill the person and idra shouldnt be allowed to spill into the forums, no matter how idras fans choose to do his bidding.
|
On May 08 2011 07:37 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:34 Tranqje wrote:On May 08 2011 07:32 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:On May 08 2011 07:30 Tranqje wrote:
I tought your policy was not to take actions based on assumption. In fact, that was stated multiple times in this topic. So unless Idra literally said to a moderator he asked people to harras and spam chill that is nowhere to be seen in his twitter post.
If he did not do that then you pretty much banned him on an assumption?
What do you mean? He literally said that on his Twitter "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you" http://twitter.com/#!/idrajit/status/66276394849673216 It sais to PM Chill if you're upset because of his ban. it doesn't say to spam and harras him. for all we know he could have encouraged a friendly debate. is that a load of crap? most likely, yes. but you can't really prove it ^^ I mean, he didn't say "go harass Chill" but Idra should know at this point that his rabid legion of fans are going to take that statement to mean "go harass Chill." You can't possibly think that he didn't know that would happen?
Yes, i know. i'm playing the devils advocate here :p
|
On May 08 2011 07:36 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:35 aderum wrote:On May 08 2011 07:21 kasumimi wrote:
IdrA has contributed absolutely nothing to the community, besides encouraging whine and bad manner, imbalance discussions and calling day9 (who is contributing his life to the community) stupid in his face.
I am in awe that there are so many people supporting and look up to him, as he has nothing to show besides being a player who blames his losses on imbalance and dozens of idiotic defeats in major tournaments.
Banning him for 90 days changes nothing unfortunately.
I think idra have brought in more fans to the community than any other proplayer, so that a pretty stupied statement. I doubt it.
I doubt it as well, as i bet most people will have found idra the same way i learned of him - through TL.
Just think about it... most of his fans/followers aren't on the EG site, they are here, on a site totally unrelated to him.
|
On May 08 2011 07:39 Horse...falcon wrote:
For everybody's benefit Idra should follow Artosis/Day9/Tasteless's lead and just stop posting on TL anyway.
Sean does post on the forums (though not with great frequency).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
