Gay StarCraft Players - Page 161

On December 01 2011 22:47 Iniggo wrote:
I appreciate the advice. So general poll I guess lol.

Am I gay and in denial?
Yes
No

On December 01 2011 14:06 Iniggo wrote:
Hey all. Like most I have been lurking around only reading the thread but I recently have been stumped about a few things and wanted to ask you fine people for some advice. I also saw that religion came up in the thread and while I have no desire at all to discuss religion here. Also, I guess we should have to assume that my beliefs are not subject to change. Ok, so here we go, sorry for the long post.

I grew up Catholic and in a Catholic School. I didn’t care for it and come high school I gave it up. I liked the idea of having a moral code and being a good person, just not the crippling guilt that seemed to accompany it. Ok so in college I really rediscovered my faith. Basically I just accepted that the world is broken, there is a purpose to life and therefore there is a creator and the only way for him to redeem us would be to sacrifice himself. Moving on.

About three years ago I began chatting online with and eventually sleeping with men. This game along with guilt, shame, and self loathing on a level I hadn’t heard of. Apparently, this was not a random occurance. I had never had a girlfriend, kisses a girl, had sex with a girl. Going back through old journals in high school I also found that I had asked out a few guys and had sexual fantasies about guys going back to middle school. However all I had been doing with guys was sex. This was really destroying me. April this year, I tried to kill myself. I suffer from bipolar depression apparently and I have spent a good amount of time with therapists and psychiatrists and all that jazz. So I am seriously messed up lol. Now my beliefs is that the whole Bible is true and if any word of it is a lie than the character of God is questionable and therefore any of it can be a lie and none of it is trustworthy. I don’t know if I believe if this is a choice. I know, that I cannot choose my attraction. I can choose whether I act upon this attraction, that’s a choice. However, I can’t choose if a guy turns me on but I can choose to act on that attraction. I can get over the faith stuff. The Bible is clear of this, no one is perfect, no one can be perfect and therefore we are saved not based upon our actions but based upon our faith. Although most of my friends are Christian and most of them are seriously motivated to keeping me straight.

The advice I get normally sucks. Non Christians will be quick to demand I just get over it and be gay since I’ve had sex with guys, etc. Christians I talk to don’t hate gay people they just encourage me as someone on the fence to not be gay. So this is all a mess in my head obviously but my debate is upon attraction. I have little to no experience or data to compare anything to anything. I have never been in a relationship with any gender. I have no experience of any kind with women. I have had sex with men and despite the overwhelming amount of hate and disgust I feel toward myself, I loved it. I haven’t been in a relationship with a guy and I cant imagine ever being in one with a guy. The big thing is I barely look at guys and go “he is cute” or “he is hot” or anything. I fantasize about guys but that’s about it. I find women gorgeous and such, absolutely gorgeous but I dunno.

I dunno. I don’t think I’m bi. I don’t like the idea of being bi, I dunno. I feel stuck in my life until I figure this out. Its awful. Sorry for the long post but any advice or help would be great. Feel free to PM me or whatever.

On December 01 2011 22:54 Robinsa wrote:

What advice ?

On December 01 2011 11:15 jarrydesque wrote:
Masamune can smell a debate from a mile off.

On December 01 2011 22:47 Iniggo wrote:
I appreciate the advice. So general poll I guess lol.

Am I gay and in denial?
Yes
No

On December 01 2011 23:19 Iniggo wrote:


Also, I am seeing a psychologist. It is having mixed results. She is a Christian Counselor and I wanted that to keep my faith at the forefront but it has its downsides too.

The trick is I have no idea if being gay will make me happy.

On December 01 2011 23:47 marvellosity wrote:


This is nuts. You're torn between two things and you have a counsellor which is one of the things? What? :/

On December 01 2011 23:19 Iniggo wrote:


see previous page.


Also, I am seeing a psychologist. It is having mixed results. She is a Christian Counselor and I wanted that to keep my faith at the forefront but it has its downsides too.

The trick is I have no idea if being gay will make me happy.

Religion is easy for me. I'm a practicing Presbyterian. The no gay rule in the old testament is sitting right next to the "no pork" and "if your brother gets leprosy throw him out of the camp" rules. People still like to quote the no gay part but for some reason whenever the McRib rolls around I can't help but wonder if they actually take all those rules seriously.

In the new testament the only person who said "no gay" was Paul. He also said that in a perfect world no one would ever need to have sex or get married. He was incredibly wise, but he wasn't perfect so I'm ok saying Paul was wrong on the gay thing. Especially since he's the only one who mentioned it.

Institutional religion has the nasty habit of being very hostile towards people who don't think exactly like them, so I've sorta stayed on the fringe of it. But Christianity itself preaches love, virtue, and understanding.

On December 02 2011 00:26 XeliN wrote:
Or you could ask yourself if you truly wish to believe in an almighty being who is juvenile and callous enough to choose whether to accept someone, or choose whether to banish them to eternal damnation (or anything inbetween depends on the religious person you speak to), based on their sexuality.

Even we supposedly sin infused mortal inadequacies have come to the point where we realise such discrimination is pathetic and wrong, and born from the same intolerances that motivate all other forms of discrimination, whether it be Gender, Race, Physical or Mental health (or percieved health with something as tenuous as "Mental health).

For me I can truly relate to why so many people look for purpose, direction, and compassion love etc. in the form of a caring creator and both truly yearn for, and truly believe it to be true.

Just from my perspective if you read the bible, God, whilst being described in this fashion in some parts, is clearly not it.

Just read Deuteronomy if you want to see the vile, malicious, hateful being, that is, biblically, part of Gods character.

On December 02 2011 00:37 Klondikebar wrote:


Actually a lot of those rules were benevolent at the time. Pork was stuffed with botulism and dirty shellfish was poisonous so banning them made sense. They didn't have cures for diseases so quarantine was the only way to keep everyone from dying when one person got sick.

And war was pretty much a way of life back then, people just kinda slaughtered each other. I'm almost inclined to think that the whole "kill all the heathens" thing was more in self defense than some grand holy war. Although if you disagree I certainly won't fault you. It is one of the more difficult practices to explain IMO.

Honestly the most hilarious rule was that if a woman grabs a mans balls she gets her hand cut off. But a few pages earlier it points out that no one who has been emasculated or crushed may enter the house of the Lord. Now think about if you were an almighty God...how many balls would you have to see crushed before you would start making laws to protect them? I agree with Cracked.com when I say 2, just two.

I guess the point of my rant is that God's Old Testament rules were relevant then. You'd have to be delusional to think that rules that were relevant before 0 A.D are relevant today. I don't think God expects them to be either. In fact, Jesus sets out a whole new "list" of rules in the New Testament once we learned how to not effing kill our entire species with one poorly aimed sneeze.

I use list in quotes because it's a pretty damn short list:
1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind.
2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

That doesn't sound like a mean bully of a God to me. And we really shouldn't fault God for having different sets of rules for clearly different circumstances. If anything it means he's more benevolent because he's not expecting cookie cutter behavior at all times and all circumstances.

Edit: Oh and banning the homosex kinda made sense too in the OT. The population was small and relatively defenseless, pretty much anything could kill them off completely. You needed everyone making babies 24/7. If we had a population bottleneck I probably wouldn't ban being gay, but you can bet your ass I'd make all the homos knock up some ladies to save the species.

On December 02 2011 01:38 Darkong wrote:


And here's the part where believers get themselves into a right old mess, you say that its delusional to think that old testament rules are relevant now, I guess that makes Jesus delusional then:

Matthew 5:17-19
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So unless we've passed the end of days without anyone realising then you still can't eat pork or shellfish, work on the sabbath, can take slaves, have permission to strike your wife, have to stone disobedient children to death, must strike down all those you meet who believe differently to you (so atheists, buddists, muslims etc) amongst various other rules.

And on god not being a mean bully, he commands, COMMANDS, you to love him and if you don't you face eternal torture, and that isn't a bully in your view?

And another point, by the time the earliest of the abrahamic religions rolled around the human race had already invented tools, farming, irrigation and many other things, there was no danger of anything short of massive natural disaster wiping the population out so your argument about population is way off the mark, it was just a rule made up by bigots imposing their will on other people.

On December 02 2011 01:47 Klondikebar wrote:


The Israelites were nomadic through a good chunk of the Torah. They weren't agrarian when those rules were made. And I think you underestimate how fragile the human race really was up until...well fairly recently. We're a weak as shit species and it's really only modern medicine that's given us any staying power...and even then just barely.

Jesus's sacrifice fulfilled the law, not the end of days.

And yes, God commands us to love. What's the alternative? Hate? He made two rules and they both involved living virtuously.

Hell is actually pretty poorly defined. The only concrete thing we know about it is that it's separation from God. We also have some pretty strong implications that evil people will be tortured but most of that comes from parables and stories. And I say evil people because all of the people in the stories who suffered in hell were genuinely treating others like shit all their lives.

If you truly don't like God and don't want to be around him, then there's really no reason to believe that Hell will be torturous for you since all we know it's that it's separation from God.

But, this will be the last religious post I make. It's hard for me to not defend my religion since it is so important to me but I shouldn't bog this thread down with irrelevant bickering. I'm more than willing to continue the discussion in PM's if you'd like.

On December 02 2011 02:02 Bortlett wrote:
There's a book I'm reading now that you might want to check out called Velvet Rage by Alan Downs (http://www.amazon.com/Velvet-Rage-Overcoming-Growing-Straight/dp/0738210617/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322757196&sr=8-1). Downs is a gay psychiatrist who has dealt primarily with gay male patients struggling with being gay, even after they are completely out. He talks a lot about the shame that gay man feel, even after completely coming out, and how to deal with it. Some of it might not apply to you (some of his advice applies only to stereotypical gay men only, which is not me at all), but maybe it will help .

I would start maybe with having a less casual sex, which seems to be the source of a lot of your problems. There's nothing wrong with having casual sex with men or women, as long as it truly satisfies you, but it sounds like it's not and makes you feel shameful. Are you meeting these guys from dating web sites? If you are, maybe try cancelling your accounts for two weeks and see how you feel. Or block access to them yourself using leechblock, etc. Do you feel guilt/shame after looking at gay porn or just fantasizing about men without acting on it?

Are you sexually attracted to women, or can you just recognize beauty? Do you feel the same way about women as men? I've noticed that you describe your attractions to men and women differently, so maybe that's the answer to your question. Although I wouldn't stress out about labeling yourself as gay/straight. Sexuality is a lot more complicated than that, and we like to put labels on things, and you might that you're in between, and that's totally ok.

Anyway, you sound like a great person . You're one of the few Christians I've talked to who are actually Christians and not just Christians on Sundays or when it's convenient, and even though I would describe myself as agnostic atheist (thanks 5 pages ago!), I think Christians who get the real message of the bible are awesome.

I'll say it again - having sex with does not make you a bad person, even if you believe it's a sin. If that were true, nobody would be a good person, because everybody sins.

EDIT: Also, my advice might be totally terrible, so anybody please chime in if that's the case .

On December 02 2011 02:13 Iniggo wrote:


1. You rock.
2. I shall check out said book.
3. I used dating sites and such but I havent had sex in over a year and I have stuff to keep me away from those sites. So the shame just isnt from the sex its from the attraction overall. i feel dirty anytime I find a guy attractive or fantasize. I don't watch gay porn really.
4. I recognize beauty in women I guess. I mean I feel I could have sex with a woman, but I'd rather cuddle with her. I would date a woman but sex? dunno. I mean if I girl acts all sexy it could turn me on, but after talking to some people it is more the IDEA of sex that she creates rather than sex with her that I find attractive.
5. On labels. I just feel stuck and I want to know who/what I am before I move on from this. If I am gay I want to start living gay TODAY if not then I want to start living straight TODAY.
6. I dont think im bi. Cant explain it.