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APM Counter in Dota2? - Page 2

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Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3253 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-23 01:30:16
December 23 2014 01:21 GMT
#21
Actually I dont agree with the people who say that it's totally irrelevant. Having between 150 and 200 apm in the early laning stage gives a lot of advantages in Dota 2, being it slightly faster farming, better possibilities for laning, knowing which items who has and having a higher tolerance for errors because of double clicks. The typical creepbattle in midlane requires a lot of apm for example.
I dont think you need more, but from watching pro-streams I can guarantee that most of them have more than 200 apm at least during the times they spike and they put it to use often. I agree that it is one factor among many, but it definitely is a factor.
low gravity, yes-yes!
BongChambers
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada591 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-23 07:18:46
December 23 2014 07:17 GMT
#22
It's quite surprising that very few to no one is looking into what APM translates into DotA in terms of benefits. Is it the most important thing? Will you be the best in the world if you have the highest APM? Probably not.... But how anyone could argue that APM isn't important in DotA is beyond me.

Looking through a few mechanics, items and hero's of DotA we can make a very quick short list of APM intensive factors;

Meepo - 4/5 hero's that you must control, can each cast 2 of their own spells, 2 x 4 = 8 spells you can cast within a second.

Chen/Enchantress/Visage - Control neutral/extra creeps throughout the game that normally contain spells such as troll, centaur, bird stomp.

Naga/TerrorBlade - Illusions that can split push, last hit in lane, stack/kill jungle camps, distract and be targets for enemy spells.

Tinker Earth/Invoker - Multiple spells that can be cast in quick succession and that requires a very active play style.

Helm of Domination/Power Threads/Manta Style - Simple item examples that require more actions then normally to be utilized more effectively.

Of course strategy, team play, experience/gold gained, kills and more are very important aspects to DotA.. It's quite frankly a very micro intense game if you want an edge over your opponent. Most people don't have map/situation awareness because they have low APM, constantly checking the map and clicking around on enemy hero's to see their item build and how much Health/Mana they have is vital information.

APM in my opinion is why some people enjoy playing Wraith King but don't enjoy playing Chen or even Brew Master. If you have low APM you can't play your hero to its maximum potential, even if you know what you're doing and communicate with your team.

I don't understand how people don't connect reaction time, map awareness, game sense, activity, multiple units and much more to APM. I personally hope to see a APM counter in DotA someday and I can 100% guarantee you that someone is going to check it once in a while. There is no reason for there not to be a APM counter in DotA.
420
ChunderBoy
Profile Joined August 2011
3242 Posts
December 23 2014 08:24 GMT
#23
On December 23 2014 16:17 BongChambers wrote:
It's quite surprising that very few to no one is looking into what APM translates into DotA in terms of benefits. Is it the most important thing? Will you be the best in the world if you have the highest APM? Probably not.... But how anyone could argue that APM isn't important in DotA is beyond me.

Looking through a few mechanics, items and hero's of DotA we can make a very quick short list of APM intensive factors;

Meepo - 4/5 hero's that you must control, can each cast 2 of their own spells, 2 x 4 = 8 spells you can cast within a second.

Chen/Enchantress/Visage - Control neutral/extra creeps throughout the game that normally contain spells such as troll, centaur, bird stomp.

Naga/TerrorBlade - Illusions that can split push, last hit in lane, stack/kill jungle camps, distract and be targets for enemy spells.

Tinker Earth/Invoker - Multiple spells that can be cast in quick succession and that requires a very active play style.

Helm of Domination/Power Threads/Manta Style - Simple item examples that require more actions then normally to be utilized more effectively.

Of course strategy, team play, experience/gold gained, kills and more are very important aspects to DotA.. It's quite frankly a very micro intense game if you want an edge over your opponent. Most people don't have map/situation awareness because they have low APM, constantly checking the map and clicking around on enemy hero's to see their item build and how much Health/Mana they have is vital information.

APM in my opinion is why some people enjoy playing Wraith King but don't enjoy playing Chen or even Brew Master. If you have low APM you can't play your hero to its maximum potential, even if you know what you're doing and communicate with your team.

I don't understand how people don't connect reaction time, map awareness, game sense, activity, multiple units and much more to APM. I personally hope to see a APM counter in DotA someday and I can 100% guarantee you that someone is going to check it once in a while. There is no reason for there not to be a APM counter in DotA.

bcoz the required apm for any of the heroes u mentioned can be achieved by any average human being that has 2 hands and 10 fingers
"mmr is a social construct" - tumblr
dfs
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Russian Federation4050 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-23 09:32:08
December 23 2014 09:29 GMT
#24
AMP is going to average at 100 across all players across all matches.
Ability to press buttons is infinitely more important in this game than ability to click fast.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/Q1jSb9X.jpg (c) Shiro; http://i.imgur.com/lSDLLKb.png (c) drav
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44122 Posts
December 23 2014 11:45 GMT
#25
On December 23 2014 16:17 BongChambers wrote:
It's quite surprising that very few to no one is looking into what APM translates into DotA in terms of benefits. Is it the most important thing? Will you be the best in the world if you have the highest APM? Probably not.... But how anyone could argue that APM isn't important in DotA is beyond me.

Looking through a few mechanics, items and hero's of DotA we can make a very quick short list of APM intensive factors;

Meepo - 4/5 hero's that you must control, can each cast 2 of their own spells, 2 x 4 = 8 spells you can cast within a second.

Chen/Enchantress/Visage - Control neutral/extra creeps throughout the game that normally contain spells such as troll, centaur, bird stomp.

Naga/TerrorBlade - Illusions that can split push, last hit in lane, stack/kill jungle camps, distract and be targets for enemy spells.

Tinker Earth/Invoker - Multiple spells that can be cast in quick succession and that requires a very active play style.

Helm of Domination/Power Threads/Manta Style - Simple item examples that require more actions then normally to be utilized more effectively.

Of course strategy, team play, experience/gold gained, kills and more are very important aspects to DotA.. It's quite frankly a very micro intense game if you want an edge over your opponent. Most people don't have map/situation awareness because they have low APM, constantly checking the map and clicking around on enemy hero's to see their item build and how much Health/Mana they have is vital information.

I don't understand how people don't connect reaction time, map awareness, game sense, activity, multiple units and much more to APM. I personally hope to see a APM counter in DotA someday and I can 100% guarantee you that someone is going to check it once in a while. There is no reason for there not to be a APM counter in DotA.


@meepo/chen/enchantress/visage/naga/TB : Those heroes doesn't even require really high APM to use well. Even enough practice will do.

@Tinker/Invoker/ES : I know 2 people who tried to play starcraft and can't multitask at all but can use Invoker/Tinker really well(obviously not pro level good).
this is a quote
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
December 23 2014 18:31 GMT
#26
On December 23 2014 16:17 BongChambers wrote:
It's quite surprising that very few to no one is looking into what APM translates into DotA in terms of benefits. Is it the most important thing? Will you be the best in the world if you have the highest APM? Probably not.... But how anyone could argue that APM isn't important in DotA is beyond me.

Looking through a few mechanics, items and hero's of DotA we can make a very quick short list of APM intensive factors;

Meepo - 4/5 hero's that you must control, can each cast 2 of their own spells, 2 x 4 = 8 spells you can cast within a second.

Chen/Enchantress/Visage - Control neutral/extra creeps throughout the game that normally contain spells such as troll, centaur, bird stomp.

Naga/TerrorBlade - Illusions that can split push, last hit in lane, stack/kill jungle camps, distract and be targets for enemy spells.

Tinker Earth/Invoker - Multiple spells that can be cast in quick succession and that requires a very active play style.

Helm of Domination/Power Threads/Manta Style - Simple item examples that require more actions then normally to be utilized more effectively.

Of course strategy, team play, experience/gold gained, kills and more are very important aspects to DotA.. It's quite frankly a very micro intense game if you want an edge over your opponent. Most people don't have map/situation awareness because they have low APM, constantly checking the map and clicking around on enemy hero's to see their item build and how much Health/Mana they have is vital information.

APM in my opinion is why some people enjoy playing Wraith King but don't enjoy playing Chen or even Brew Master. If you have low APM you can't play your hero to its maximum potential, even if you know what you're doing and communicate with your team.

I don't understand how people don't connect reaction time, map awareness, game sense, activity, multiple units and much more to APM. I personally hope to see a APM counter in DotA someday and I can 100% guarantee you that someone is going to check it once in a while. There is no reason for there not to be a APM counter in DotA.


[SPACE] + Q + W + TAB + W + TAB + W +TAB + W + TAB + W

congrats you just meepo'd
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
eieio
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States14512 Posts
December 23 2014 23:43 GMT
#27
There's probably a minimum APM threshold that you need to meet but beyond that I don't see APM as particularly relevant in Dota.

That being said, the old MYM (dota1) site had stats that showed APM for each player when they posted a replay, which was kinda neat. I remember Merlini's APM being absurdly high because he constantly spammed lol.
LiquidDota Staff
TL+ Member
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
December 24 2014 00:38 GMT
#28
Noone is saying being fast isnt good. People are saying Average APM doesnt measure how fast you are and as such is useless for a game like Dota. You can use it in Starcraft where you are actually sending multiple meaningful commands literally every second. You cant use it for Dota where the situation where you use your full speed are few and far between and spam will fill that gap. Its a terrible way to measure speed for this game.
Nilrem
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3684 Posts
December 24 2014 01:09 GMT
#29
I think having an apm system in-game would be interesting but not a necessity. For example, I think it would be interesting to see the amp of someone playing heroes like chen, meepo, invoker, etc.. It is of course not nearly as necessary as compared to a game like Starcraft (obviously).

Is it needed, no. Is adding it to the game going to break it, no.
Meepo Haters gonna Hate. https://twitter.com/KazeNilrem (@KazeNilrem)
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-24 01:14:23
December 24 2014 01:13 GMT
#30
did anyone read my post?

[image loading]

i.imgur.com
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Nilrem
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3684 Posts
December 24 2014 02:56 GMT
#31
We did targe (well I did) but that is not quite what I meant. was meaning a more, official based system and not something requiring console to look at.
Meepo Haters gonna Hate. https://twitter.com/KazeNilrem (@KazeNilrem)
Corgi Apocalypse
Profile Joined September 2011
United States89 Posts
December 24 2014 04:39 GMT
#32
If APM was so important then Select would still be playing Dota
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