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Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. |
On February 05 2014 19:27 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 18:43 govie wrote:On February 05 2014 18:07 Tobberoth wrote:On February 05 2014 17:23 govie wrote:On February 05 2014 16:45 Tobberoth wrote:On February 05 2014 16:33 Nagvalk wrote:On February 05 2014 16:00 ReignSupreme. wrote:
You're unlucky. 2.6k (any) MMR is what you make it. Thanks, I guess? Been struggling in ranked cause it doesn't matter what you do if 3 out of 5 play badly (and I mean really badly) u can't really do anything. Especially not when you like to play suport... You don't need to do much. Your opponents are just as likely as you are to get 3 out of 5 bad players, you just have to be slightly better than other players of your MMR and thus your team has a higher chance of winning than the opponents. Over time, this leads to better winratio. At that point, all you need is massive amounts of games. Don't see it as a struggle. See it as an enforcement to improve, and just play your best. Some games are lost from the beginning, unless you play a massively snowbally carry (say, TA getting 15 kills by 10 minutes or something crazy like that), you can't solo carry against 5 people, so you shouldn't ever expect yourself to. It's annoying to play support and have bad carrys lose you a game which you set up really nicely, but that's just what it is to be a support. Do just as well next game and chances are, you'll have a carry who is decent enough to win with the space you created for him. At least, that's what works for me and gets me motivated to play. Instead of saying to myself "I can't do anything, this is boring", I focus on "What could I do better if this game happened again?". Doesn't matter if that would have made us win or not, it's all about improving, I try hard not to blame others for playing badly unless I played almost perfect myself. I get your point if you are in a higher mmr range where the retardfrequency, i assume, should be lower. But in 2.6k this isnt the case. The outcome of 70% of my AP games in 2.6k is/was decided on feeders, trolls and bad mannered in the first 10 minutes of the game. And believe me, the lower your mmr is the more retards you encounter. Ranked AP is a lottery for whom gets less tards on there team in 2.6k range. Playing with a large stack helps, as it increases the chance on having more tards on the enemy team, haha, tonight pinky were gonna conquer the world  But, best is just play AP to have fun and play CM/CD when you want to play more competetive games, with the downside of not playing your favorite hero's/role every game. You'd be surprised, I don't even play ranked yet and I'm at "let's all pick carries and not buy courier" level. It doesn't really matter what level you're at, the matchmaking is still working to equalize teams, which means over time, the chance of getting a game-ruining feeder is the same between you team and your opponents. You can't do anything about this, so you have to make the other games count. I think a lot of people who have problems with feeders etc and feel it's all a lottery are not being critical enough of themselves. It's always easy to blame everything on the drow ranger who is 0/10/0 20 minutes into the game, but it just shields you from the much needed criticism you need for yourself to make a bigger impact next game where that drow ranger is on the opponents team. That, plus the misconception of their own winratio. If I had never checked and someone asked me for my winratio, I would assume I have 40% or so winratio, but checking Dotabuff, i'm at 57% winrate. As long as you're over 50%, you're doing good. if you're over 60%, you're downright ridiculous. Being realistic, appreciating your own need for improvement and trusting that the matchmaking isn't completely screwed (which it isn't, it's not hard to design a decent MMR system) and focusing on the fact that your winratio is above 50%, that's the key to keep enjoying the game. Blaming others feels good at the time, but just ruins the experience of the game after a while. (Not to say QQ isn't warranted a lot of the time, which is why this thread is good. Keeping it here, away from the actual games  ) Nice and dandy Jesus, but i think you misread. That you are only trying to improve in unranked is fine, but most who play ranked just want to compete, else they would play unranked. Many people want the certainty to choose there own hero over a CM/CD teamgame because they want to play him in a competitive environment (which doesnt imply they play with the same mindset), thats why they choose AP ranked. Thats why the OP choose AP ranked. When you have played over 100 ranked 2.6k range AP games with a competitive mindset, i would like to know if you have changed your opinion about the matter There is nothing more competitive than improving, unless you somehow feel you're actually being competitive in 2.6k MMR, which doesn't sound very reasonable. I mean, at least if you're competitive in the long term sense, your goal should be to improve, get your MMR up and then compete at a higher level. If you're competitive on a game by game basis, you should probably 5 stack immediately.
Yo, why is ranked called ranked, Jesus?
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On February 05 2014 19:18 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 18:58 Xypski wrote:On February 05 2014 17:23 govie wrote:On February 05 2014 16:45 Tobberoth wrote:On February 05 2014 16:33 Nagvalk wrote:On February 05 2014 16:00 ReignSupreme. wrote:
You're unlucky. 2.6k (any) MMR is what you make it. Thanks, I guess? Been struggling in ranked cause it doesn't matter what you do if 3 out of 5 play badly (and I mean really badly) u can't really do anything. Especially not when you like to play suport... You don't need to do much. Your opponents are just as likely as you are to get 3 out of 5 bad players, you just have to be slightly better than other players of your MMR and thus your team has a higher chance of winning than the opponents. Over time, this leads to better winratio. At that point, all you need is massive amounts of games. Don't see it as a struggle. See it as an enforcement to improve, and just play your best. Some games are lost from the beginning, unless you play a massively snowbally carry (say, TA getting 15 kills by 10 minutes or something crazy like that), you can't solo carry against 5 people, so you shouldn't ever expect yourself to. It's annoying to play support and have bad carrys lose you a game which you set up really nicely, but that's just what it is to be a support. Do just as well next game and chances are, you'll have a carry who is decent enough to win with the space you created for him. At least, that's what works for me and gets me motivated to play. Instead of saying to myself "I can't do anything, this is boring", I focus on "What could I do better if this game happened again?". Doesn't matter if that would have made us win or not, it's all about improving, I try hard not to blame others for playing badly unless I played almost perfect myself. I get your point if you are in a higher mmr range where the retardfrequency, i assume, should be lower. But in 2.6k this isnt the case. The outcome of 70% of my AP games in 2.6k is/was decided on feeders, trolls and bad mannered in the first 10 minutes of the game. This goes for 80% of 5,2k rated games too. No matter what level of pubs you're playing, they're usually stomps. Im now in game with a nature prophet that has the name "75 games games till 0 mmr". he fed pudge level 3 before creep even spawned. This is AP ranked 2.6k Do you have that in 5.2k Xypski? E: 12 minutes in NP is 0 17 and the coeriers keeps dying aswell.... this doesnt happen at 5.2k now does it. He even keeps sprouting his teamm8's so that they die, he also buys every ward. A smart nature prrophet.
That's not a bad player, that's a troll. Any one can troll and intentionally feed, doesn't matter if it's 5k MMR. It might be rarer in 5k MMR since most people that high has played seriously for a long time, but that doesn't stop people from having a bad day and doing it for a few games.
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On February 05 2014 19:29 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 19:27 Tobberoth wrote:On February 05 2014 18:43 govie wrote:On February 05 2014 18:07 Tobberoth wrote:On February 05 2014 17:23 govie wrote:On February 05 2014 16:45 Tobberoth wrote:On February 05 2014 16:33 Nagvalk wrote:On February 05 2014 16:00 ReignSupreme. wrote:
You're unlucky. 2.6k (any) MMR is what you make it. Thanks, I guess? Been struggling in ranked cause it doesn't matter what you do if 3 out of 5 play badly (and I mean really badly) u can't really do anything. Especially not when you like to play suport... You don't need to do much. Your opponents are just as likely as you are to get 3 out of 5 bad players, you just have to be slightly better than other players of your MMR and thus your team has a higher chance of winning than the opponents. Over time, this leads to better winratio. At that point, all you need is massive amounts of games. Don't see it as a struggle. See it as an enforcement to improve, and just play your best. Some games are lost from the beginning, unless you play a massively snowbally carry (say, TA getting 15 kills by 10 minutes or something crazy like that), you can't solo carry against 5 people, so you shouldn't ever expect yourself to. It's annoying to play support and have bad carrys lose you a game which you set up really nicely, but that's just what it is to be a support. Do just as well next game and chances are, you'll have a carry who is decent enough to win with the space you created for him. At least, that's what works for me and gets me motivated to play. Instead of saying to myself "I can't do anything, this is boring", I focus on "What could I do better if this game happened again?". Doesn't matter if that would have made us win or not, it's all about improving, I try hard not to blame others for playing badly unless I played almost perfect myself. I get your point if you are in a higher mmr range where the retardfrequency, i assume, should be lower. But in 2.6k this isnt the case. The outcome of 70% of my AP games in 2.6k is/was decided on feeders, trolls and bad mannered in the first 10 minutes of the game. And believe me, the lower your mmr is the more retards you encounter. Ranked AP is a lottery for whom gets less tards on there team in 2.6k range. Playing with a large stack helps, as it increases the chance on having more tards on the enemy team, haha, tonight pinky were gonna conquer the world But, best is just play AP to have fun and play CM/CD when you want to play more competetive games, with the downside of not playing your favorite hero's/role every game. You'd be surprised, I don't even play ranked yet and I'm at "let's all pick carries and not buy courier" level. It doesn't really matter what level you're at, the matchmaking is still working to equalize teams, which means over time, the chance of getting a game-ruining feeder is the same between you team and your opponents. You can't do anything about this, so you have to make the other games count. I think a lot of people who have problems with feeders etc and feel it's all a lottery are not being critical enough of themselves. It's always easy to blame everything on the drow ranger who is 0/10/0 20 minutes into the game, but it just shields you from the much needed criticism you need for yourself to make a bigger impact next game where that drow ranger is on the opponents team. That, plus the misconception of their own winratio. If I had never checked and someone asked me for my winratio, I would assume I have 40% or so winratio, but checking Dotabuff, i'm at 57% winrate. As long as you're over 50%, you're doing good. if you're over 60%, you're downright ridiculous. Being realistic, appreciating your own need for improvement and trusting that the matchmaking isn't completely screwed (which it isn't, it's not hard to design a decent MMR system) and focusing on the fact that your winratio is above 50%, that's the key to keep enjoying the game. Blaming others feels good at the time, but just ruins the experience of the game after a while. (Not to say QQ isn't warranted a lot of the time, which is why this thread is good. Keeping it here, away from the actual games ) Nice and dandy Jesus, but i think you misread. That you are only trying to improve in unranked is fine, but most who play ranked just want to compete, else they would play unranked. Many people want the certainty to choose there own hero over a CM/CD teamgame because they want to play him in a competitive environment (which doesnt imply they play with the same mindset), thats why they choose AP ranked. Thats why the OP choose AP ranked. When you have played over 100 ranked 2.6k range AP games with a competitive mindset, i would like to know if you have changed your opinion about the matter There is nothing more competitive than improving, unless you somehow feel you're actually being competitive in 2.6k MMR, which doesn't sound very reasonable. I mean, at least if you're competitive in the long term sense, your goal should be to improve, get your MMR up and then compete at a higher level. If you're competitive on a game by game basis, you should probably 5 stack immediately. Yo, why is ranked called ranked, Jesus?
Because the goal is to rise in rank? Which you do by improving?
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On February 05 2014 19:18 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 18:58 Xypski wrote:On February 05 2014 17:23 govie wrote:On February 05 2014 16:45 Tobberoth wrote:On February 05 2014 16:33 Nagvalk wrote:On February 05 2014 16:00 ReignSupreme. wrote:
You're unlucky. 2.6k (any) MMR is what you make it. Thanks, I guess? Been struggling in ranked cause it doesn't matter what you do if 3 out of 5 play badly (and I mean really badly) u can't really do anything. Especially not when you like to play suport... You don't need to do much. Your opponents are just as likely as you are to get 3 out of 5 bad players, you just have to be slightly better than other players of your MMR and thus your team has a higher chance of winning than the opponents. Over time, this leads to better winratio. At that point, all you need is massive amounts of games. Don't see it as a struggle. See it as an enforcement to improve, and just play your best. Some games are lost from the beginning, unless you play a massively snowbally carry (say, TA getting 15 kills by 10 minutes or something crazy like that), you can't solo carry against 5 people, so you shouldn't ever expect yourself to. It's annoying to play support and have bad carrys lose you a game which you set up really nicely, but that's just what it is to be a support. Do just as well next game and chances are, you'll have a carry who is decent enough to win with the space you created for him. At least, that's what works for me and gets me motivated to play. Instead of saying to myself "I can't do anything, this is boring", I focus on "What could I do better if this game happened again?". Doesn't matter if that would have made us win or not, it's all about improving, I try hard not to blame others for playing badly unless I played almost perfect myself. I get your point if you are in a higher mmr range where the retardfrequency, i assume, should be lower. But in 2.6k this isnt the case. The outcome of 70% of my AP games in 2.6k is/was decided on feeders, trolls and bad mannered in the first 10 minutes of the game. This goes for 80% of 5,2k rated games too. No matter what level of pubs you're playing, they're usually stomps. Im now in game with a nature prophet that has the name "75 games games till 0 mmr". he fed pudge level 3 before creep even spawned. This is AP ranked 2.6k Do you have that in 5.2k Xypski? E: 12 minutes in NP is 0 17 and the coeriers keeps dying aswell.... this doesnt happen at 5.2k now does it. He even keeps sprouting his teamm8's so that they die, he also buys every ward. A smart nature prrophet.
How many games did that happen in, and how many games did someone on the enemy team do something similar, and you happily took the free win?
This is part of the point Tobberoth tried to make (I believe). You only recognize the mistakes your teammates make, but when the players on the enemy team play dumb, this is not something most players consciously notice. In fact they often attribute it to their own good play, rather than piss poor play by the enemy team.
Think about the last killing streak you had in the early game. Do you think that happened because of your awesome play, or because the enemy players were just feeding you free kills that you would never have gotten against players of what you believe is your skill level?
Over a large number of games, the terrible-ness of players on your team and enemy team evens out, and is thus not really relevant to anything. You just have to perform slightly better on average, and you'll rise in MMR.
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I've had guys feed intentionally at 5,2 because they decided to be bitches, yes. Good players arn't different people from shitty players.
You're probably right in frequency though, just because this kind of behaviour isn't conductive to getting a higher rating. But they should still be on your opponents team as often as they're on yours.
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I think the goal is to find that place where every game comes down to a clutch engage, or a single mistake that wins or loses the game for you. I might be wrong but if you assume (yes, I know when u assume..) That players with more experience and higher skill lvls are at 5200mmr, then you should have more of those games than the onesided stomps and feeding frenzies which seem to be a norm at 2600mmr.
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I am not 5.2k so i cant judge Xypski, I do know that most games in my AP pubs approx 2.5k are troll/reportgames nowadays. Although this mode is a bit broken, I still have fun when doing A-Z. The CM/CD, like plansix (is in the same mmr range) mentioned before somewhere are indeed more enjoyable when having a competitive mindset even as a soloplayer.
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why do people build bloodstone on death prophet?
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
On February 05 2014 21:05 hfglgg wrote:
why do people build bloodstone on death prophet?
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Relic of the time when Bloodstone gave HP regen per charge as well.
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On February 05 2014 21:05 hfglgg wrote:
why do people build bloodstone on death prophet?
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They are terrified of the Mana Void buff.
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On February 05 2014 21:05 hfglgg wrote:
why do people build bloodstone on death prophet?
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the reduced respawn timer and active suicide is seriously underrated IMO
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The Bloodstone hate is seriously overdone.
Every stat on the Item is actually usefull for her and the buildup via Arcane Boots is nice.
Yeah there are better/other choices but that does not make bloodstone "BAD".
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Probably a matter of preference.
I vastly prefer the MS from phase/drum/eul, I don't run into mana issues with that build so I don't understand why people go mana boots on DP.
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On February 05 2014 23:54 Velr wrote:
The Bloodstone hate is seriously overdone.
Every stat on the Item is actually usefull for her and the buildup via Arcane Boots is nice.
Yeah there are better/other choices but that does not make bloodstone "BAD".
it does not make bloodstone a "GOOD" option either
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On February 05 2014 23:54 Velr wrote:
The Bloodstone hate is seriously overdone.
Every stat on the Item is actually usefull for her and the buildup via Arcane Boots is nice.
Yeah there are better/other choices but that does not make bloodstone "BAD".
I had a friend who got Bloodstone for OD back in Dota 1.
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I don't mind Bloodstone on cores too much. I'd much rather they get other stuff, but eh, it's ok.
When supports get it though...god, please. PLEASE, GOD, DON'T GO BLOODSTONE. Unless you're going to snowball with it, just don't go bloodstone.
if anything, I rage much more at people that build a bloodstone without dismantling their mana boots. Why would you ever do that
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Well if you go manaboots there is nothing wrong with a bloodstone late.
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On February 06 2014 01:24 govie wrote:
Well if you go manaboots there is nothing wrong with a bloodstone late.
yeah there is
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On February 06 2014 01:24 govie wrote:
Well if you go manaboots there is nothing wrong with a bloodstone late.
It is if you're a support. You're going to need a Ghost Scepter/Force Staff/ Scythe/Blink/whatever way more than what Bloodstone gives you.
and no, the argument of "you revive faster" is not a good one. Your goal as a support is to not die, not feed faster.
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On February 05 2014 23:54 Velr wrote:
The Bloodstone hate is seriously overdone.
Every stat on the Item is actually usefull for her and the buildup via Arcane Boots is nice.
Yeah there are better/other choices but that does not make bloodstone "BAD".
Assuming you haven't already snowballed out of control, you get just as much regen from Phase/Bottle/Euls as you would from a Bloodstone, at less cost and more overall utility. Her ult is a major contributor to teamfights, so if you pop it and then die, it doesn't matter how short your respawn timer is because you can't ult again and most likely can't even return to the fight to participate in time. The suicide is always nice, but is an added perk to those heroes who can benefit strongly from the rest of the items attributes, not worth the massive price tag alone.
Yeah, building into Bloodstone from Arcane Boots is sort of efficient, but it still costs 4k more gold. The real problem there is there are few situations where Arcanes are the best choice, Phase or even Treads would be a better choice in most games, transitioning to BoTs late.
Bloodstone allows her to spam her nuke more often, which isn't really something she has a problem with as long as she has bottle and another regen item like Eul's. For the same price, you could have those items and be part of the way to another big item like Hex, Shiva's, Atos, etc.
So no, it's not a bad item choice like rapier is a bad item choice, but in terms of opportunity cost it's a bad item choice. The hate comes from the fact that it is on many recommended item guides, so people just buy it blindly without thinking about what benefits it provides. In addition, people get into a mindset that if an item is "core" on a recommended item guide, they need to get it first regardless of situation. How many fail DP's have you seen who have phase/bottle/perseverance at 35 minutes into the game? There are smaller items she can build that add to her effectiveness in pushing and chasing people down far before a Bloodstone could.
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EPT
