In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 82

On July 14 2014 15:13 Mecha King Ghidorah wrote:
What were you thinking on your Veno build? Max ward's first though you state Sting is your lane tool you don't max it until 9-10 and Gale maxed last? Other than that your builds are pretty damn good and if their is no purge build ill try yours out first, your Nyx build really helps out!

On July 14 2014 17:21 writer22816 wrote:
Does the Sven build still advocate maxing cleave over war cry? If so I think that's a little odd, surely war cry is one of the main reasons you pick him in the first place?

On July 14 2014 18:36 Laserist wrote:
I don't believe Jakiro needs ulti at 6 unless you have a decent reliable setup to inflict at least half of the duration. Liquid fire just melt towers and T1 towers have no backdoor protection. Ram the towers, got $$$.

On July 14 2014 21:48 idonthinksobro wrote:
ok, my last try, i think you are doding the points i make for whatever reason. I specifically said that if there is a safelane available doom rather has safelane farm than jungling i did not say that a trilane is always perfect or anything else - i also never said that the jungle build should be like the lane build i say the exact opposite for 3 times already. I said multiple times that a jungler is not supposed to carry the game he can turn into a carry later if the game goes well but that is not expected. Maybe you need to specify a role in your guides and not just lane/jungle because doom offlane is very different from doom safelane.

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If you have a jungler it means every lane you have is weaker, a single support can't really go gank much or have much impact on his own. You should lose at least 1 lane if the other team doesn't have a jungler themselves, potentially more so basically by having a jungler your team starts with a disadvantage by default. To recover from that the jungler has to do something about it when he is ready to do so. Most junglers use the jungle to get 1 key item and then do something to equalize the disadvantage you are at. Putting a hero in the jungle and expect him to buy midas and carry the game later just goes against the basic principle i just described. For this very reason you almost never see a lifestealer jungling.

Now a couple of examples:
Legion commander goes to the jungle to get brown boots + blink dagger -> reason is her ult is really good for ganking, by ganking with the blink dagger and getting a couple of kills you equalize the disadvantage.
Lycan jungles to get a vlads + brown boots and a smoke -> the hero can get roshan and give everyone on your team +200 gold, the hero can push towers and the aegis helps in upcoming teamfights.
Doom gets Blink Dagger / Shadowblade -> Doom blinks/shadowblades on/to weaver and dooms him, his team can now kill weaver.

Doom with midas is bascially as good as doom without any items at all. You can't expect to walk up to somebody and kill him, if you want to gank someone you should itemize for that. Getting midas means you need another item before you have a decent chance of succesfully ganking. I feel like there is a huge disconnection between itembuild and expected playstyle if you want players to farm a midas and boots and start ganking with only these 2 items.

Jungling Doom has pretty much 3 options:
1. utility - arcanes + mek
2. initiation - blink or shadowblade.
3. your team already won the game any item is fine

The items doom goes after his start aren't fixed, if he gets ac or shivas or bkb or abysal or heart or Aghs or refresher or blink or shadowblade or mek depends on the game and what your team lacks.

On July 12 2014 14:56 idonthinksobro wrote:
Doom Jungle, the point of jungling is not to have a other hard-carry that farms 25 minutes before he can have any game impact. If you jungle a hero you need to have game impact, if you jungle long enough to get all these items: Ring of Basilius, Hand of Midas, Boots of Speed, Phase Boots, Shadow Blade you just sit way too long passive in the jungle and more often than not the other team already got a big advantage by winning lanes or by pushing towers.

Doom Lane, i would agree on tranquills if you are an offlane doom. Safelane doom usually gets phase if you build him as a midgame hero, arcanes if you get the mek.

On July 14 2014 19:40 Torte de Lini wrote:



Yeah, I changed it to max Liquid Fire and then Ice Path maxed second

On July 14 2014 22:46 Laserist wrote:


I wonder why did you prioritize ice path over dual breath.

On July 14 2014 22:51 Torte de Lini wrote:


I wasn't sure, so I followed what TI4 has been showing and altered it. Since Dual Breath has the same move/attack speed debuff, I maxed the second thing that scales: Ice Path.

On July 14 2014 22:56 Laserist wrote:


Icepath scales with stun and dual breath scales with damage. Somehow I love slow better than stun in early game.
% second slow with a total damage of 80/180/280/380 is hard to pass out for me comparing 1/1.4/1.8/2.2 stun.
Also it depends on your setup, you may not land the path but breath is hard to miss.
Just putting my thoughts.

On July 14 2014 23:12 Sn0_Man wrote:
technically each point of dual breath (after the first) is 100 extra damage while icepath, even if it keeps them in macropyre, is more like 40/55/70 dmg per level and that isn't even inherent in the skill.

But I'm an ice-path maxer. It makes your hero more or less mana independant for a lot of the game, gives you a 2.2s stun every 9 seconds (as opposed to 1s every 12), etc. It lets you utilize your ult much better too.

Dual breath is actually a fine skill to max first but since the good part of jak as a hero is liquid fire, you max that first and then your "window" for dual breath kinda feels gone since you aren't overlevelled and abusing ur high-dmg nuke anymore.

Different topic: when I read techies skills I was like 98% certain that stasis trap was a 1-point wonder skill, am I wrong? I never played the hero in dota 1. Not that suicide scales THAT well but it seemed worth levelling over stasis in my mind.

On July 14 2014 23:46 idonthinksobro wrote:
Yes i think getting either a mek or a blink right away is usually the best first item for doom if you are jungling. I think that you could have helped bot lane not getting completly destroyed.

i watched the replay untill the 30 minute mark or so, you are losing bot lane so hard that the other team has a 5k gold advantage at 8-9 minutes. Any other laning setup would have probably resulted in a smoother game (nyx offlane / doom offlane / wk support or wk farming tri with nyx off).
I can't believe that lion literally walked on top of you while he was alone - this shit never happens in my games. May i ask what mmr / server this is?

The reason that radiant lost this game is that their most farmed hero broodmother missplayed the hero and was basically just feeding after taking 3 towers (2-9 at 30 minutes). You never sit in tower range with the hero. You don't build radiance on brood, you either go necro or orchid/bkb. Brood doesn't take rosh, brood doesn't take jungle farm or ancients, brood basically runs into a tower and gets blown up over and over again.

/E on jakiro i max liquid fire first, and usually ice path second and i get his ult at 6.

On July 14 2014 23:57 idonthinksobro wrote:
basically all i do with jakiro is spamming liquid fire when it comes off cooldown, you never run out of mana. If i have the opportunity to push a tower i often use his ult to kill a creep wave quickly and get more hits in on a tower.

On July 14 2014 23:56 Sn0_Man wrote:
If u skip dual breath he has the mana for ult.

On July 15 2014 00:05 idonthinksobro wrote:
getting 1 value point is probably a good idea, but even if you have the ability doesn't mean that you have to spam it. A lot of heros get their teamfight ults earlier nowadays in pro games, might be because early agression is more common.