EPTI'm having trouble with Doom Jungle. I don't understand how he can be played. I'll put Arcane instead of Phase Boots and maybe add a Mekansm?
In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 81
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I'm having trouble with Doom Jungle. I don't understand how he can be played. I'll put Arcane instead of Phase Boots and maybe add a Mekansm? | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
You're more likely to want 2-4-4-1 at 11 than 1-4-4-2. | ||
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
Doom Lane, i would agree on tranquills if you are an offlane doom. Safelane doom usually gets phase if you build him as a midgame hero, arcanes if you get the mek. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On July 12 2014 14:31 TheYango wrote: For ET, rank 2 Stomp takes priority over rank 2 ult. Rank 2 Stomp guarantees being able to combo ulti on heroes with a worse animation than ET (rank 3 might be necessary if there are enough such heroes), and rank 2 Earth Splitter doesn't improve the damage at all. You're more likely to want 2-4-4-1 at 11 than 1-4-4-2. Is this mid or lane? edit: did it for both. So I assume the rest is fine? On July 12 2014 14:56 idonthinksobro wrote: Doom Jungle, the point of jungling is not to have a other hard-carry that farms 25 minutes before he can have any game impact. If you jungle a hero you need to have game impact, if you jungle long enough to get all these items: Ring of Basilius, Hand of Midas, Boots of Speed, Phase Boots, Shadow Blade you just sit way too long passive in the jungle and more often than not the other team already got a big advantage by winning lanes or by pushing towers. Doom Lane, i would agree on tranquills if you are an offlane doom. Safelane doom usually gets phase if you build him as a midgame hero, arcanes if you get the mek. The build accomodates all possible combination of items Doom can have. Typically you jungle until right after Midas (as you reach level 7) or after Phase Boots if you're desperate for them. The reason this build is made is because it accommodates jungling while the other builds simply do not completely at a fashionable time. Even safe lane, Doom gets tranquil's in any match-up I saw. | ||
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NeoRussia
Canada381 Posts
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Ufnal
Poland1435 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
If you weren't so all-in on getting kills then yes 2 levels is BY FAR the most efficient damage for mana way to build him. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
On July 12 2014 20:19 Torte de Lini wrote: Is this mid or lane? edit: did it for both. So I assume the rest is fine? The build accomodates all possible combination of items Doom can have. Typically you jungle until right after Midas (as you reach level 7) or after Phase Boots if you're desperate for them. The reason this build is made is because it accommodates jungling while the other builds simply do not completely at a fashionable time. Even safe lane, Doom gets tranquil's in any match-up I saw. this doesn't make sense? if you jungle doom that means there is no lane for him - it means you have an offlaner, a mid, a carry + support. So where do you go with him? Not to mention that midas doesn't give you any advantage in combat. So what do you expect to do with a midas + brown boots doom? Unless the opponent is really out of position, don't have wards etc. you shouldn't even get in range to get your doom off. Farming a doom is fine if you are safelane doom or in any 1v1 lane with him midas is a really good maybe even the best choice, but if you jungle you need to have some justification to have your team play 4v5 for a long time. If you jungle and then have nothing to help your team you will often lose a game simply because you had no game impact. A hero like natures prophet that is also played as greedy pub jungler has the justification that he can splitpush and that he can reduce a lot of pressure and force reactions. Lycan is also a good pusher he and Ursa threatens solo-roshan, legion and axe are really strong gankers. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On July 13 2014 11:16 idonthinksobro wrote: this doesn't make sense? if you jungle doom that means there is no lane for him - it means you have an offlaner, a mid, a carry + support. So where do you go with him? Not to mention that midas doesn't give you any advantage in combat. So what do you expect to do with a midas + brown boots doom? Unless the opponent is really out of position, don't have wards etc. you shouldn't even get in range to get your doom off. Farming a doom is fine if you are safelane doom or in any 1v1 lane with him midas is a really good maybe even the best choice, but if you jungle you need to have some justification to have your team play 4v5 for a long time. If you jungle and then have nothing to help your team you will often lose a game simply because you had no game impact. A hero like natures prophet that is also played as greedy pub jungler has the justification that he can splitpush and that he can reduce a lot of pressure and force reactions. Lycan is also a good pusher he and Ursa threatens solo-roshan, legion and axe are really strong gankers. If someone wants to Jungle, the rationale they're using is that they want their ally to get solo exp and farm and you want to farm safely. That's always been the rationale at this level; jungling is less hassle and more consistent until they are more useful (at level 6 for Doom). With Ring of Basilius, you get enough mana through natural regeneration to always use your Q and about 60 to 100 more for another ability (your W or you can gank with any jungle creeps stomp or net) before six at any point in time. Are we discussing the item build or Doom Jungling? You get Phase by 10 minutes or less and you only need brown boots + W to get in range to Doom someone. The issue was that no other build accomodated jungling safely without fully deviating from the items you need (tranquil's) hence why we reverted back to this build. I'm not sure why you think we're farming Doom for 25 minutes when it is more like 7 to 10 (with intermittent ganking with your ultimate to hasten the process). If you have an alternative starting items that gives Doom the small mana regeneration he needs to Jungle and doesn't deviate from going Tranquil's (or Arcane) into Blink, etc. let me know; but I don't think there is without completely having him dependent on the jungle since he will have no mana all game. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Added Mekansm to Core Items Added Blade Mail to Siutuational Items Removed Urn of Shadows Removed Drums of Endurance Moved Medallion of Courage to Early Game Added Vanguard to Situational Items Added Halberd to Core Items Removed Hood of Defiance (Pipe of Insight is still in Situational Items) Ember Spirit (Middle) New Skill Build: E Q E Q E R E W Q W R Q W W (1. Flame Guard 2. Searing Chains 3. Sleight of Fist). Tinker Added Blink Dagger to Core Items IO Moved Tranquil Boots to Extension Items Removed Force Staff Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items Dazzle New Skill Build: Q E W E E R E Q Q Q R W W W R (1. Shadow Wave 2. Poison Touch 3. Shallow Grave) Phantom Assassin Moved Drums of Endurance to Core Items New Tabs: Core - Early Carry: Phase Boots, Drums, Vladmir's Offering, Black King Bar, Basher Core - Farming Carry: Phase Boots, Battlefury, Helm of the Dominator, Black King Bar, Basher, Removed Monkey King Bar Moved Heaven's Hablerd to Extension Items Legion Commander (Jungle) New Skill Build: W E W E W R Q Q Q Q R W E E (1. Overwhelming Odds 2. Press The Attack 3. Moment of Courage) Elder Titan (Lane) New Skill Build: W Q W E W E W E E R Q Q Q R R (1. Astral Spirt 2. Natural Order 3. Echo Stomp) Added Soul Ring to Early Game Added Medallion of Courage To Core Items Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items Added Force Staff to Core Items Moved Mekansm to Situational Items Removed Pipe of Insight Added Black King Bar Please Verify this build Elder Titan (Middle) New Skill Build: W E W E W R W E E Q Q Q Q R R (1. Astral Spirit 2. Natural Order 3. Echo Stomp) Removed Mekansm Removed Pipe of Insight Moved Black King Bar to Core Items Please Verify this build Doom (Jungle) New Item Builds: Starting Items: Ring of Protection, Stout Shield, Tangos Early Game: Ring of Basilius, Hand of Midas, Boots of Speed Core Items: Phase Boots, Shadow Blade, Platemail Situational Items: Blink Dagger, Heaven's Halberd, , Drums of Endurance, Vladmir's Offering Black King bar Extension Items - Damage: Assault Cuirass, Heart of Tarrasque, Radiance Extension Items - Disable: Shiva's Guard, Refresher's Orb, Scythe of Vyse Please Verify this build -- I reverted it back to the old build since the new standard is not possible in a good time-frame when jungling. Doom (Lane) New Item Builds: Starting Items: Iron Branch, Boots of Speed, Tangos Core Items: Tranquil Boots, Hand of Midas, Magic Wand, Blink Dagger, Black King Bar Situational Items: Drums of Endurance, Vladmir's Offering, Mekansm, Heaven's Halberd Extension Items: Shiva's Guard, Refresher's Orb, Scythe of Vyse, Assault Cuirass, Heart of Tarrasque Please Verify this build Death Prophet Added Rod of Atos as Situational Items Should we skill his ult at 6 now? To-do Guides:
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On July 13 2014 05:18 NeoRussia wrote: I still think blink is core on earth spirit. If the hero was played in competitive you'd probably see blink into force staff a lot on him. Blink is the only way to initiate reliably, if you actually need to. Even if you have an insane combo like silencer + earth spirit, blink frees up so much of your spell usage and gives you so many more combos to work with so its still something I'd build. I also don't build arcanes in most of my games. I am against arcane boots as a whole though so its just my opinion that bottle + tranquil boots are better. My Earth Spirit games: http://dotabuff.com/players/35361365/matches?date=&faction=&hero=earth-spirit&lobby_type=&game_mode=®ion=&duration= Can I have a replay to see how it works with Blink? I'm not against it; it just feels like every hero and their mother gets it because of the trend and its lower mana cost + ease to performing certain things (and not because it is 100% necessary). | ||
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
If you buy a mek right away you are useful, you can take teamfights, you can pressure towers. If you have a midas you can't. If you get blink instead of midas you can gank efficiently, your ult alone doesn't kill anything. Sure you will gank with another support or disable probably but especially against heros that have escapes blink is basically the best item you can get. If you get a vlads instead of midas you will be more useful in fights, as the vlads aura is helpful especially if your safelane carry is melee but even if he isn't it is a helpful item. It can lead to easy rosh after teamfights it has some merit. If you get drum instead of a midas you are more useful, as you can chase after someone, get general stats for teamfighting and have stronger teamfight and can take towers faster. If you get a shadowblade right away it is also more useful than midas, it costs more than blink and has mana costs but it is an alright alternative. Doom is flexible, if you are taking extremely greedy jungle farm you need to make yourself useful in some way. I stumbled across this: http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2ami05/3k_mmr_player_here_can_i_get_some_tips_on_doom/ the 2 longer answers are ones i can agree with, one jungler and one that isn't jungling. | ||
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Mecha King Ghidorah
United States595 Posts
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
On July 14 2014 15:13 Mecha King Ghidorah wrote: What were you thinking on your Veno build? Max ward's first though you state Sting is your lane tool you don't max it until 9-10 and Gale maxed last? Other than that your builds are pretty damn good and if their is no purge build ill try yours out first, your Nyx build really helps out! maxing wards first is pretty standard, especially as support because levels are hard to come by. Wards are your defending and pushing tool, they scale the best too. It allows you to jungle if your carry doesn't need if you are offlane they allow you to do ancients , if you are mid you also want wards first to put a lot of pressure on the other mid and push eventually. There are other builds that focus on gale + sting but it is rather situationally good. | ||
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
On July 14 2014 17:21 writer22816 wrote: Does the Sven build still advocate maxing cleave over war cry? If so I think that's a little odd, surely war cry is one of the main reasons you pick him in the first place? i dislike the point in cleave at lvl 4 and would rather keep the skill point or get another level warcry because you usually don't want to push the wave so early but you want to get levels in cleave to clear stacks before maxing warcry. I think warcry is not the main reason to pick him, it is nice that you don't have to be so concerned about getting armor items but the main reason to pick him is that his damage output is ridicilous and he doesn't need much farm. | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On July 14 2014 14:48 idonthinksobro wrote: Ok, so what is "this level", i'm really confused by the statement that jungling is safer and more reliable than sitting in a trilane. The problem is not doom jungling but the problem is getting a midas if you are jungling doom as it delays your next useful item by 5+ minutes if you keep jungling. If you buy a mek right away you are useful, you can take teamfights, you can pressure towers. If you have a midas you can't. If you get blink instead of midas you can gank efficiently, your ult alone doesn't kill anything. Sure you will gank with another support or disable probably but especially against heros that have escapes blink is basically the best item you can get. If you get a vlads instead of midas you will be more useful in fights, as the vlads aura is helpful especially if your safelane carry is melee but even if he isn't it is a helpful item. It can lead to easy rosh after teamfights it has some merit. If you get drum instead of a midas you are more useful, as you can chase after someone, get general stats for teamfighting and have stronger teamfight and can take towers faster. If you get a shadowblade right away it is also more useful than midas, it costs more than blink and has mana costs but it is an alright alternative. Doom is flexible, if you are taking extremely greedy jungle farm you need to make yourself useful in some way. I stumbled across this: http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2ami05/3k_mmr_player_here_can_i_get_some_tips_on_doom/ the 2 longer answers are ones i can agree with, one jungler and one that isn't jungling. In what instance is trilane always going to happen and be coordinated in a pub when you soloqueue? In addition, I already have a guide that is for laning. This is a guide for jungle Doom, it's not going to be changed to a second Doom Lane guide. The Doom Lane is tranquil, blink, etc. This one is carry: midas -> phase -> Shadow Blade -> Platemail into shivas or AC, etc. You need to suggest an item build for Doom to jungle. The one he currently has let's you jungle until 7 for max Q and Midas; giving you continuous good GPM regardless if you're ganking all the time with Doom (which is what he does during those levels). Drums, Vlad's, Meka are all in the guide already, Shadowblade is in there. I don't know what you're arguing again. Is Jungling bad or is getting Midas like all the other junglers do because jungling is slower, bad? It's a guide for Jungle Doom; if you want to trilane; use the Lane Doom Guide. Tell me the item build for Jungle Build that you see is most optimal. The one I currently have is very successful for me. | ||
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