Soul Ring is specifically for safe lane DK, which is what I thought the "Lane" guide was for, even though it rarely gets played anymore. You don't get Soul Ring on mid.
Even if you're getting Maelstrom, it doesn't make sense to get it before BKB most of the time. The hero still revolves heavily around early push/teamfight timings, and usually any transition to a farming item is made midgame after breaking outers if the game stalls out in such a way that you have to farm 1-2 major items before you can break inners. You don't go farming item from the start because unless you establish a map control/farming advantage first, you're not going to win games against other carries by straight farming.
That's sort of why HoD is actually awkward, because it's really weird to fit that into that kind of tempo--you need to start stacking early to really get a lot of farming effectiveness out of it (since literally the only thing it contributes to your farming is stacking Ancients)--but you don't really want to get it before your first major item. On the other end, completed Mjollnir has somewhat more effectiveness as a 2nd item than Satanic does (esp since at 2 major items, the Static Charge just wrecks fights). Satanic is stronger at 3rd/4th item, but that's farming for a really long time then.
Most of the time, if your tempo is good enough, you don't stop for a farming item after BKB--you just finish AC directly.
On June 25 2014 23:36 Sn0_Man wrote: Yes darkseer goes shell-surge-shell-surge-shell-ult-shell-vac-vac-vac-ult at 11
Wall vs. Vac at 6 is kind of situational.
Agree with everything else.
I don't know about this. I don't see the merits of earlier Wind Walk over potentially more damage, maybe not on a hero, but towers, farming creeps or even ancients, etc.
You don't pop Strafe to farm, lol, it's too hard on your mana and the CD is too long.
The benefit of maxing WW second is the movement speed. 44% MS gives you basically max MS, which lets you move around the map and find kills much faster. This generally is just better for you than the extra damage, because once you have Orchid, you aren't lacking the extra damage of a few extra seconds of Strafe--you just want to get places faster.
On June 25 2014 23:36 Sn0_Man wrote: DK pushes for farm he doesn't jungle. Thats why soul ring kinda sucks. Grab runes and/or bottle crow for mana, run over towers, kill the people who try to defend.
Bane should get bkb or force or blink before necrobook. Bane literally cannot farm a necrobook without already being in the middle of a huge stomp in which case it's irrelevant.
Definitely max windwalk on clinkz this isn't complicated.
Yes darkseer goes shell-surge-shell-surge-shell-ult-shell-vac-vac-vac-ult at 11
thats my input.
PS I said this a million times but AA MUST RUSH AGHS PERIOD
Bane already has Force Staff listed before Necrobook...
I'll change the rest, I'm applying the changes now.
Abaddon New Skill Build: W Q W Q W R W E Q E R E E E (1. Aphotic Shield 2. Mist Coil 3. Frostmourne) Removed Drums of Endurance
Axe (Lane) New Skill Build: E Q E W E R E Q Q Q R W W W (1. Counter-Helix 2. Berserker's Call 3. Battle Hunger) Removed Arcane Boots Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items
Dragon Knight Removed Maelstrom Removed Hood of Defiance Moved Mjollnir to Situational Items Moved Assault Cuirass to Extension Items Removed Monkey King Bar
Clinkz New Skill Build: E W W Q W R W E E E R Q Q Q (1. Searing Arrows 2. Wind Walk 3. Strafe)
Dark Seer New Skill Build: W E W E W Q W Q Q R R Q E E R (1. Ion Shell 2. Vacuum 3. Surge) Moved Arcane Boots to Extension Items
Puck New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Illusory Orb 2. Waning Rift 3. Phase Shift) Removed Wand
Death Prophet Removed Arcane Boots Added Phase Boots Should Drums of Endurance really be removed? I enjoy the speed boost, aura it gives and extra HP
Earthshaker New Skill Build: Q E Q E Q R Q W E E R W W W (1. Fissue 2. Aftershock 3. Enchant Totem) Added 4x Clarities
Enigma Removed Sobi Mask Added 3x Clarities Moved Mekansm to Core Items
Faceless Void New Skill Build: Q W E Q E R E E W Q R Q W W R (1. Time Lock 2. Backtrack 3. Time Walk)
Huskar New Skill Build: W E W E W R W E E Q R Q Q Q (1. Burning Spear 2. Berserker's Blood 3. Inner Vitality
Doom (Lane) New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Devour 2. Scorched Earth 3. LVL? Death) Removed Monkey King Bar Added Refresher Orb to Extension Items 2 Moved Radiance to Extension Items 1 Moved Abyssal Blade to Situational Items Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items Changed tabs to Extension Disable/Damage
Doom (Jungle) Removed Drums of Endurance Added Refresher Orb to Extension Items 2 Moved Radiance to Extension Items 1 Moved Abyssal Blade to Situational Items Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items Changed tabs to Extension Disable/Damage
Lone Druid (Jungle) New Skill Build: Q E Q E Q E Q E R W R W W W (1. Summon Spirit Bear 2. Synergy 3. Rabid)
IO Removed Drums of Endurance Soul Ring added to Situational Items Moved Force Staff to Extension Items
Medusa New Skill Build: W E W Q W R W Q Q Q R E E E (1. Mystic Snake 2. Split Shot 3. Mana Shield) Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Added Yasha to Core Items Added Black King Bar to Situational Items Added Satanic to Situational Items
Gyrocopter Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items Moved Ring of Aquila to Early Game Added Helm of the Dominator to Core Items Removed Yasha
Dazzle New Skill Build: Q E W Q Q R Q E E E R W W W (1. Poison Touch 2. Shadow Wave 3. Shallow Grave)
Ogre Magi Removed Orb of Venom (Had to remove an item so the guide fits in-game)
Ancient Apparition (Lane) Added New Tab: Aghanim's Core build Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Aghanim's Core Build Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Aghanim's Core Build Removed Mekansm Removed Ghost Scepter
Ancient Apparition (Middle) Added New Tab: Aghanim's Core build Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Aghanim's Core Build Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Aghanim's Core Build Removed Mekansm
Doom in jungle is trivial afaik (q/w/q/w/q/r/q/w/w/e/r/e/e/e) Doom in lane is more complex, although you still max q and w before getting a point in e generally. W is lane power, Q is farm. Choose which you need. I'm not really sure which I'd recommend as a braindead option since if pubs forget to use devour on CD then whats the point
PS I think u need a basi to jungle as doom after the devour mana nerf.
I think dusa goes like w/e/w/e/w/r/w/stats/e/e/r/q/q/q/q but she is super fluid depending on how much jungling you are doing (need Q to jungle) vs how much damage you are taking (need E to survive) etc. I think that snake max is standard by now though? that skill's pretty decent.
The only difficult choice on DK is if u get stun at 2 and blood at 4 or blood at 2 and stun at 4. otherwise ur going for 4-1-1 into 4-1-4 every game. Ult whenever possible.
AA's skills are also super situational depending on how ur doing damage etc. The ultra braindead version is 4-1-1 imo though, its hard to fuck that up.
Drums should stay on Death Prophet. Early game she is the prime target for most nukes and this continues into the mid game. The added HP is useful and the extra mana doesn't hurt either. And anything that increases her move speed is welcome.
Plus if you remove it, people will just start building bloodstone because that's what people do when they play DP.
PS I think u need a basi to jungle as doom after the devour mana nerf.
I think dusa goes like w/e/w/e/w/r/w/stats/e/e/r/q/q/q/q but she is super fluid depending on how much jungling you are doing (need Q to jungle) vs how much damage you are taking (need E to survive) etc. I think that snake max is standard by now though? that skill's pretty decent.
The only difficult choice on DK is if u get stun at 2 and blood at 4 or blood at 2 and stun at 4. otherwise ur going for 4-1-1 into 4-1-4 every game. Ult whenever possible.
AA's skills are also super situational depending on how ur doing damage etc. The ultra braindead version is 4-1-1 imo though, its hard to fuck that up.
- It's in there, I was commenting more about Doom item selections, which is something I'm trying to fix up.
- Snake is already maxed on Medusa, we're figuring out how early we want Split Shot
- For DK, we want to take a better look at his item build.
AA goes boots (optional mana/tranquil upgrade), (optional urn), aghs. Even stick is pretty optional considering the range you want to be contributing from as AA. You do generally have to provide wards and detection though, unless you can convince ur other support to buy them (good luck )
Doom item selections are flexible but optional midas into blink + shivas seems more and more common these days. Mana boots + mek was big but seems much less common now as people are angling more and more for the late game with doom's farm and late game power.
I'm a drums buyer on DK but I think thats actually bad I just do it anyway. Regardless u wanna buy some cheapish item that allows you to fight and push a lot as DK (something like Armlet or shadowblade or maybe maelstrom). Into BKB, although you can also rush the BKB. After that it starts getting game specific but crit is always good and AC synergizes with DK's "secondary carry" role quite well. Obviously treads + bottle are ur first items, plus or minus a bracer.
If ur safelane ricing DK I think you rush HotD and stack ancients. You probably still wanna go 1 cheap item into bkb after that though. Crit is always the best pure dps item.
Split shot max is basically "once you have the dmg to clear jungle efficiently" however I don't think there's much harm in delaying the points somewhat. I could be wrong. It really depends on how ur farm is overall.
DK safe lane should be fairly similar to DK mid item-wise. I personally don't see HoD->ancient stack as being particularly useful because the item itself weakens your early 5-man push timings, as you won't have cleared the stack yet. The hero's time for farming is AFTER BKB because that's when the your push timings will have slowed down after taking towers. At that point you want an item that lets you keep map control--meaning you want an item that lets you keep lanes pushed up. This is why Lothar's and Mjollnir make sense at this point as post-BKB farming items--Mjollnir pushes lanes faster and Lothar's lets you push lanes deeper.
On July 01 2014 00:58 Sn0_Man wrote: The only difficult choice on DK is if u get stun at 2 and blood at 4 or blood at 2 and stun at 4. otherwise ur going for 4-1-1 into 4-1-4 every game. Ult whenever possible.
I'd argue that Stats vs. Stun after the 1st rank is still somewhat situational, though the nerf to the Stun CD makes this favor Stun a lot more than it did before.
On July 01 2014 00:58 Sn0_Man wrote: Doom in lane is more complex, although you still max q and w before getting a point in e generally. W is lane power, Q is farm. Choose which you need. I'm not really sure which I'd recommend as a braindead option since if pubs forget to use devour on CD then whats the point
Doom lane is super weird because Lvl? Death gives you some super weird solo-kill timings if you're keeping track of the opponent's XP gains carefully. Rank 1 Lvl? Death for a lvl 6 vs lvl 6 solo kill or rank 2 Lvl? Death for a lvl 6 vs lvl 5 solo kill are possible (especially in pubs where people can underestimate your burst damage) but leave you in a pretty awkward spot in both cases if the solo-kill fails (and it's really awkward to have rank 2 Lvl? Death if the other guy hits 6 first).
On July 01 2014 04:51 TheYango wrote: DK safe lane should be fairly similar to DK mid item-wise. I personally don't see HoD->ancient stack as being particularly useful because the item itself weakens your early 5-man push timings, as you won't have cleared the stack yet. The hero's time for farming is AFTER BKB because that's when the your push timings will have slowed down after taking towers. At that point you want an item that lets you keep map control--meaning you want an item that lets you keep lanes pushed up. This is why Lothar's and Mjollnir make sense at this point as post-BKB farming items--Mjollnir pushes lanes faster and Lothar's lets you push lanes deeper.
On July 01 2014 00:58 Sn0_Man wrote: The only difficult choice on DK is if u get stun at 2 and blood at 4 or blood at 2 and stun at 4. otherwise ur going for 4-1-1 into 4-1-4 every game. Ult whenever possible.
I'd argue that Stats vs. Stun after the 1st rank is still somewhat situational, though the nerf to the Stun CD makes this favor Stun a lot more than it did before.
On July 01 2014 00:58 Sn0_Man wrote: Doom in lane is more complex, although you still max q and w before getting a point in e generally. W is lane power, Q is farm. Choose which you need. I'm not really sure which I'd recommend as a braindead option since if pubs forget to use devour on CD then whats the point
Doom lane is super weird because Lvl? Death gives you some super weird solo-kill timings if you're keeping track of the opponent's XP gains carefully. Rank 1 Lvl? Death for a lvl 6 vs lvl 6 solo kill or rank 2 Lvl? Death for a lvl 6 vs lvl 5 solo kill are possible (especially in pubs where people can underestimate your burst damage) but leave you in a pretty awkward spot in both cases if the solo-kill fails (and it's really awkward to have rank 2 Lvl? Death if the other guy hits 6 first).
I think qwqwqrqwwereee is correct like 90% of the time on doom. That is the only build I would feel comfortable recommending as a general build.
New Abaddon build has no fourth point in mist coil. I think wqwqwrwqqereee would be the "default" build anyway.
Dazzle skill build should be eqewereqqqrwww.
Clinkz should almost never have to take windwalk at level 1 unless offlane or you get first blood ganked. Default should be wewewrwqeerqqq. Strafe is rarely ever useful before level 8 at the earliest (and I often skip it til 10).
I can't be bothered to read through more stuff (I read the last page or two) but if you have any more stuff you want feedback on I'm glad to help.
Abaddon New Skill Build: W Q W Q W R W Q Q E R E E E (1. Aphotic Shield 2. Mist Coil 3. Frostmourne) Removed Drums of Endurance
Axe (Lane) New Skill Build: E Q E W E R E Q Q Q R W W W (1. Counter-Helix 2. Berserker's Call 3. Battle Hunger) Removed Arcane Boots Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items
Dragon Knight Removed Hood of Defiance Moved Mjollnir to Situational Items Moved Assault Cuirass to Extension Items Removed Monkey King Bar
Clinkz New Skill Build: W E W E W R W Q E E R Q Q Q (1. Searing Arrows 2. Wind Walk 3. Strafe)
Dark Seer New Skill Build: W E W E W Q W Q Q R R Q E E R (1. Ion Shell 2. Vacuum 3. Surge) Moved Arcane Boots to Extension Items
Puck New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Illusory Orb 2. Waning Rift 3. Phase Shift) Removed Wand
Death Prophet Removed Arcane Boots Added Phase Boots Should Drums of Endurance really be removed? I enjoy the speed boost, aura it gives and extra HP
Earthshaker New Skill Build: Q E Q E Q R Q W E E R W W W (1. Fissue 2. Aftershock 3. Enchant Totem) Added 4x Clarities
Enigma Removed Sobi Mask Added 3x Clarities Moved Mekansm to Core Items
Faceless Void New Skill Build: Q W E Q E R E E W Q R Q W W R (1. Time Lock 2. Backtrack 3. Time Walk)
Huskar New Skill Build: W E W E W R W E E Q R Q Q Q (1. Burning Spear 2. Berserker's Blood 3. Inner Vitality
Doom (Lane) New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Devour 2. Scorched Earth 3. LVL? Death) Removed Monkey King Bar Added Refresher Orb to Extension Items 2 Moved Radiance to Extension Items 1 Moved Abyssal Blade to Situational Items Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items Changed tabs to Extension Disable/Damage
Doom (Jungle) Removed Drums of Endurance Added Refresher Orb to Extension Items 2 Moved Radiance to Extension Items 1 Moved Abyssal Blade to Situational Items Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items Changed tabs to Extension Disable/Damage
Lone Druid (Jungle) New Skill Build: Q E Q E Q E Q E R W R W W W (1. Summon Spirit Bear 2. Synergy 3. Rabid)
IO Removed Drums of Endurance Soul Ring added to Situational Items Moved Force Staff to Extension Items
Medusa New Skill Build: W E W Q W R W Q Q Q R E E E (1. Mystic Snake 2. Split Shot 3. Mana Shield) Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Added Yasha to Core Items Added Black King Bar to Situational Items Added Satanic to Situational Items
Gyrocopter Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items Moved Ring of Aquila to Early Game Added Helm of the Dominator to Core Items Removed Yasha
Dazzle New Skill Build: Q E W Q Q R Q E E E R W W W (1. Poison Touch 2. Shadow Wave 3. Shallow Grave)
Ogre Magi Removed Orb of Venom (Had to remove an item so the guide fits in-game)
Ancient Apparition (Lane) Added New Tab: Aghanim's Core build Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Aghanim's Core Build Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Aghanim's Core Build Removed Mekansm Removed Ghost Scepter
Ancient Apparition (Middle) Added New Tab: Aghanim's Core build Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Aghanim's Core Build Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Aghanim's Core Build Removed Mekansm
did you remove the mek from the aghanim's core build or from AA's guide entirely? i would still advocate a quick mek out of a pub, especially if we're playing AA middle. entirely, personal preference though.
On July 01 2014 20:59 BluemoonSC wrote: did you remove the mek from the aghanim's core build or from AA's guide entirely? i would still advocate a quick mek out of a pub, especially if we're playing AA middle. entirely, personal preference though.
Oh, I removed it for Lane too.
I felt for Middle, it would be too late but I was going to keep it for the Lane version. Let me add it back
EPT
