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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
Same goes for Kunkka. Although there are games where XMTS can wait till later, I'd argue the cookie cutter build should probably be W Q W E E R W W Q Q R Q E E, where you get an early two points in X so you can reliably combo it with Torrent. If you're laning with Ursa I'd still argue that the stronger build is maxing Q first, although putting an early two points in Fury Swipes so you can solo Rosh earlier is valid. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On April 28 2014 07:07 Firebolt145 wrote: Why is that your new Brewmaster build? You should still be maxing Q > E > R with maybe a single early point in W, with eventually more points in W when you need the miss chance against enemy physical dps that don't go BKB/MKB. Same goes for Kunkka. Although there are games where XMTS can wait till later, I'd argue the cookie cutter build should probably be W Q W E E R W W Q Q R Q E E, where you get an early two points in X so you can reliably combo it with Torrent. If you're laning with Ursa I'd still argue that the stronger build is maxing Q first, although putting an early two points in Fury Swipes so you can solo Rosh earlier is valid. I always assumed we maxed E last for Brewmaster and we get W for the slow until the mid to late-game where the miss chance is just good timing. That's what it was originally, I can reverse it without a problem; I'm actually not sure why I didn't keep the Es as before since it lines up with your Q. edit: ah shit, I forgot to put the order of the Ursa Build. What you're seeing is remnants of formatting from when I did the Axe post here lol -- it's been fixed. Sorry! | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 28 2014 07:07 Firebolt145 wrote: Why is that your new Brewmaster build? You should still be maxing Q > E > R with maybe a single early point in W, with eventually more points in W when you need the miss chance against enemy physical dps that don't go BKB/MKB. I would argue that the change to Brawler slightly favors getting more stats early because the usefulness of ranks 2-4 Brawler is greatly diminished when you are guaranteed an initial crit and dodge when initiating and won't stay in normal Panda form. This is assuming that the auto-crit/auto-dodge interact normally with PRD for crit/dodge meaning that after the auto-crit/dodge your chance of getting a consecutive crit/dodge is greatly diminished as is normally the case for PRD. I actually think it's wrong that the guide neglects to take stats early (especially after the change to Brawler). Realistically I'd expect most likely at level 11 to be something like 4-1-1-2 + 3 points stats, then decide between Haze and Brawler based on the game. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I didn't think it was worth just getting three stats pre-6 if we have the guaranteed last hit with Drunken Brawler (and one in stats doesn't give enough mana for two slows, correct?) For carry Tiny, do you get Drums before Aghanim's or is the reverse order? | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 28 2014 18:27 Torte de Lini wrote: I didn't think it was worth just getting three stats pre-6 if we have the guaranteed last hit with Drunken Brawler (and one in stats doesn't give enough mana for two slows, correct?) You don't get 3 Stats pre-6, you get stats from 8-10 (with possible 1 point Haze) because at levels 8-10, physical damage isn't high enough to warrant dodge/miss chance. Stats are simply more impactful during those levels. I don't know why your updated version skips Brawler until 13. The skill to skip is until level 13-15 is Haze. The reason for this is because the slow on Haze scales poorly (only 12% increased slow over 3 ranks), and the increased effectiveness of the miss chance does not become hugely relevant until a carry is farmed enough to be a major source of damage. The extra 30% miss chance is not that impactful in midgame fights before carries have major items, and the slow scaling alone does not warrant leveling the skill. At 6, you'd be either 4-0-1-1 + 1 pt. stats or 4-0-0-1 + 2 pt. stats At 11 you'd be 4-1-1-1 + 3 pt. stats From 12-15 how you split those 4 skill points between Haze, Brawler, and Stats depends on the game. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Thanks for the explanation; more depth in Brewmaster than originally understood. | ||
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firebfm
22 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Most level 1 base damage is ~50-ish, meaning Stout block is worth ~24% damage reduction. For a melee with 3 starting armor like Centaur, this is basically equivalent to buying 6 armor at level 1 for 250 gold--this isn't even counting the even more effective negation of creep damage--where Stout procs on creep damage basically reduce them to ~1-2 damage. Stout stays this good through most of laning, especially when supports don't level up that fast. Frankly, Stout is just SO good during laning that it's worth a delayed Tranquils unless you have a totally free lane where you just want the upgraded boots faster to go kill things--not to lane. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I made the changes to Centaur BWAHAHAH TIME TO CRASH STEAM CLOUD SERVERS WITH 121 GUIDES!!11 | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Abaddon Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Brewmaster New Skill Build: Q E Q Stats Q R Q W Stats Stats R W W W E R E E (1. Thunder Clap 2. Drunken Haze 3. Drunken Brawler) Removed Butterfly Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items Huskar Moved Urn of Shadows to Situational Items Removed Gauntlets of Strength from Starting Items Added Iron Branch x3 to Starting Items Added Helm of the Dominator on Core Items Removed Heart of Tarrasque on Extension Items Added Satanic to Extension Items Keeper of the Light Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Moved Force Staff to Core Items Removed Veil of Discord from Situational Items Lina Moved Veil of Discord to Situational Items Removed Dagon Added Aghanim's Scepter Added Descriptions for Aghanim's Scepter and Veil of Discord Shadow Demon Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items Tusk Removed Phase Boots Added Arcane Boots to Core Item Moved Orb of Venom to Situational Items Removed Armlet of Mordiggian Kunkka New Skill Build: W Q W Q W R W Q Q E R E E E (1. Tidebringer 2. Torrent 3. X Marks the Spot) Ursa (Jungle) Removed Quelling Blade Added Ring of Basilius to Early Game Added Morbid Mask to Early Game Added New Tab: Fight Roshan at Level 5 Added Smoke of Deceit to ' Fight Roshan at Level 5' Removed Butterly from Situational Items Added Desolator to Situational Items Added Descriptions for Eye of Skadi, Satanic and Desolator Jakiro New Skill Build: E Q Q W Q E Q E E R R W W W (1. Dual Breath 2. Liquid Fire 3. Ice Path) Move Veil of Discord to Situational Items Zeus Fixed Descriptions for Lightning Bolt Omniknight Fixed Descriptions for Repel NEW GUIDE Ursa (Lane) Skill Build: Q E W Q Q R Q E E E R W W W (1. Earthshock 2. Overpower 3. Fury Swipes) Starting Items: Stout Shield, Tangos, Healving Salve, Clarity Early Game: Boots, Morbid Mask Core Items: Phase Boots, Blink Dagger, Black King Bar 'Fight Roshan at Level 10': Smoke of Deceit Situational Items: Orb of Venom, Desolator, Shadow Blade, Heaven's Halberd Extension Items: Satanic, Abyssal Blade, Skadi Hero Guides that have alternative versions (jungle/lane/middle) will feature at the bottom after the 'Last Updated' Tab ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HYbv1Dt.png) | ||
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firebfm
22 Posts
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