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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 67

Forum Index > The Tavern
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Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-02 06:46:45
May 01 2014 10:52 GMT
#1321
edit
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
phrenetiC
Profile Joined April 2011
Switzerland224 Posts
May 01 2014 13:40 GMT
#1322
I just checked out your Ursa-Build.
Seems good. Personally, I would sneak in a potion for jungling. I got fairly low when fighting Rosh on lvl5, so it might be a little risky. ;P
(On a lesser note, you may also want to update the the build's description and the author's note to Vlads)

I'm actually not entirely convinced that Vlads should no longer be built on Ursa. Especially considering it provides more survivability by itself than HotD and the ability to go for another orb without giving up lifesteal.

The way I see it right now there's is two ways to build Ursa:
- Burst-Oriented with something like Blink > Vlads > Deso (+BKB)
- Lategame-Oriented with something like Blink > HotD > Skadi > Satanic (+BKB)

So, basically my suggestion would be to leave Vlads as situational. On the other hand, if this build is supposed to be for (newer) players learning the hero it might get a little confusing.
"[...] you just keep on trying till you run out of cake!" - GLaDOS
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 01 2014 13:44 GMT
#1323
On May 01 2014 22:40 phrenetiC wrote:
I just checked out your Ursa-Build.
Seems good. Personally, I would sneak in a potion for jungling. I got fairly low when fighting Rosh on lvl5, so it might be a little risky. ;P
(On a lesser note, you may also want to update the the build's description and the author's note to Vlads)

I'm actually not entirely convinced that Vlads should no longer be built on Ursa. Especially considering it provides more survivability by itself than HotD and the ability to go for another orb without giving up lifesteal.

The way I see it right now there's is two ways to build Ursa:
- Burst-Oriented with something like Blink > Vlads > Deso (+BKB)
- Lategame-Oriented with something like Blink > HotD > Skadi > Satanic (+BKB)

So, basically my suggestion would be to leave Vlads as situational. On the other hand, if this build is supposed to be for (newer) players learning the hero it might get a little confusing.


I just did the Jungle Ursa build. You definitely need to go heal and regain your mana + Smoke of Deceit. Pretty impressive you pulled it off straight from jungle! You should come out with about 40% health after fighting Roshan; a nice trick I like to do is prep the first Overpower then let it go off CD before fighting Roshan so you get 2 consecutive overpowers.

The only other Orb effect that is worthwhile on Ursa is Desolator and even then; it's not that attractive given you don't need damage, just CC and lifesteal. To make Vlad's situational for purely Deso I don't think it is justified to put it in.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Surprise.820
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1276 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-01 13:53:12
May 01 2014 13:49 GMT
#1324
Like I said in another thread, suicide if you plan to do Roshan. Faster (especially on Dire), cheaper if you do it right and you can save money by buying a smoke of deceit before death.

The way I see it right now there's is two ways to build Ursa:
- Burst-Oriented with something like Blink > Vlads > Deso (+BKB)


Said it twice today but why would you get vlads before rushing Desolator? Chances are you won't gain as much as you can from Vlads instead of going straight to Deso, and you can always override orb effects if you want to jungle. After Deso you'd likely care more about keeping someone in place with a bash, sheepstick or something.
Erase and improve
phrenetiC
Profile Joined April 2011
Switzerland224 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-01 14:25:10
May 01 2014 14:23 GMT
#1325
On May 01 2014 22:44 Torte de Lini wrote:I just did the Jungle Ursa build. You definitely need to go heal and regain your mana + Smoke of Deceit. Pretty impressive you pulled it off straight from jungle! You should come out with about 40% health after fighting Roshan; a nice trick I like to do is prep the first Overpower then let it go off CD before fighting Roshan so you get 2 consecutive overpowers.
I actually killed myself when I had the money. I'm not the most efficient jungler since I rarely play them, so maybe I could have engaged Rosh earlier.

On May 01 2014 22:44 Torte de Lini wrote:
The only other Orb effect that is worthwhile on Ursa is Desolator and even then; it's not that attractive given you don't need damage, just CC and lifesteal. To make Vlad's situational for purely Deso I don't think it is justified to put it in.
To be honest my oppinion is purely based on my own 'theorycrafting' and I haven't been able to try it out, so maybe you are right. I have to say that I like the idea of Skadi on Ursa!

On May 01 2014 22:49 Surprise.820 wrote:
Show nested quote +
The way I see it right now there's is two ways to build Ursa:
- Burst-Oriented with something like Blink > Vlads > Deso (+BKB)
Said it twice today but why would you get vlads before rushing Desolator? Chances are you won't gain as much as you can from Vlads instead of going straight to Deso, and you can always override orb effects if you want to jungle. After Deso you'd likely care more about keeping someone in place with a bash, sheepstick or something.
I have to say that my order is not that strict I guess.
I personally like to have some sort of "defensive" item after rushing for Blink. If your farm stagnates for some reason, the build-up on Deso is kind of a pain in the butt and you're still basically naked when being attacked (not that vlads makes a tremendous difference in this case, but still^^).
Let's say I would generally let the game determine my ordering of items. ;P
"[...] you just keep on trying till you run out of cake!" - GLaDOS
Surprise.820
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1276 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-01 14:29:11
May 01 2014 14:28 GMT
#1326
Well it gives you some EHP vs right-clicks but it won't provide much defenses vs your biggest enemy at that point of the stage: spells. Rather consider saving more money towards the deso or a BKB than getting that vlads, or skipping deso altogether for HP builds.
Erase and improve
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-02 06:48:31
May 02 2014 06:48 GMT
#1327
Ursa (Jungle)
Removed Ring of Basilius
Added Helm of Dominator to Extension Items
Tab changed to doing Roshan at level 4

Ogre Magi
Added Orb of Venom to Situational Items

Ursa (Lane)
Added Helm of Dominator to Extension Items
Tab changed to doing Roshan at level 8



He's subscribed to our guides :DDDD
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
firebfm
Profile Joined April 2014
22 Posts
May 03 2014 01:59 GMT
#1328
Add drums of endurance for Necrophos.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 03 2014 12:04 GMT
#1329
why
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
firebfm
Profile Joined April 2014
22 Posts
May 04 2014 00:08 GMT
#1330
never mind, add blademail for Necrophos.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 04 2014 00:24 GMT
#1331
What? Is that even a thing or is he just trolling?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 04 2014 16:37 GMT
#1332
why
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
DrPandaPhD
Profile Joined November 2011
5188 Posts
May 04 2014 16:57 GMT
#1333
I could actually see blademail being pretty good on necro. Not amazing or anything but a decent option.
리노크 👑
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-04 17:08:36
May 04 2014 17:07 GMT
#1334
Drums and Blademail are both really situational. Necro actually does like the +all stats on Drums, the main thing is that it's kind of competing with a casual Ultimate Orb which later becomes Sheep, and you REALLY have to be getting mileage out of that aura for the slightly better cost-efficiency of Drums to outweigh the fact that you're using that Ultimate Orb later anyway.

The items sort of go into the grey area where you question whether they should go into these kinds of guides because while there are games for them, for the kind of player who's reading these guides, they're not really worse off not having these items in front of them in the guide.
Moderator
Oukka
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Finland1683 Posts
May 05 2014 05:55 GMT
#1335
If you survive few early teamfights and start to attract attention blademail has its value. But it is somewhat situational as if your team has strong initiation and frontline tank or two (as you should with necro) blademail doesn't bring you anything that mekanasm wouldn't. Drums I find kind of awkward on him, as usually fast mek or if rolling really well bloodstone are the way to go in almost every game.
I play children's card games and watch a lot of dota, CS and HS
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-05 10:55:10
May 05 2014 10:51 GMT
#1336
Is Maxing Q for laning Ursa really that ideal? I can never see how it is justified. The slow is great, but you still only have 1 in Overpower and Fury swipes at 7

Roshing at 10 also seems eh
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-05 16:33:30
May 05 2014 16:11 GMT
#1337
One each of Fury Swipes and Overpower does rosh fine with vlads(or hotd i think) and ult, just not with flat mask of death iirc.

So you can rosh at 6/7 fine as soon as phase + upgraded lifesteal is done. PS in lane ur definitely finishing phase pre-lifesteal for lane-kill purposes unless ur really not farming.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
May 05 2014 16:16 GMT
#1338
On May 05 2014 19:51 Torte de Lini wrote:
Is Maxing Q for laning Ursa really that ideal? I can never see how it is justified. The slow is great, but you still only have 1 in Overpower and Fury swipes at 7

Roshing at 10 also seems eh

It depends on the game.

Maxing Earthshock has the best overall fighting effectiveness early because it's up-front damage and AoE on a very short cooldown. Maxing Overpower/Swipes farms faster and has more solo potential as you farm faster and have higher single-target damage for solo-kills (but because it requires you to get all 6 consecutive hits, it's a bit more unwieldy in fights).

Which you get depends a lot on the game--I don't think one is definitively better for a blind cookie-cutter build.
Moderator
Dyllyn1
Profile Joined May 2014
Singapore5 Posts
May 05 2014 17:35 GMT
#1339
Torte, please consider changing SS's Lane skill order to put level 1 shackles rather than hex, it's 2.75 seconds of disable and approximately 100 damage, it's a heck lot better for smoke ganks and general safelaning. I main support at 4.5k and have a 75% winrate with SS over 40 games so doing this has worked very well for me.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
May 05 2014 17:39 GMT
#1340
Support Shaman is like 50% Shackles at level 1 (lanes where you can get level 1 kills) and 50% Ether Shock (lanes where you can't).

Ether Shock is actually crazy strong because it has ridiculous base damage for a level 1 nuke. You auto-Shock-auto an off-laner for like 1/3 to 1/2 of his life level 1, and if they don't know what they're doing they freak the fuck out at how much damage you do, go hide under their tower, and instantly lose themselves the lane.
Moderator
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