EPTyou should reeplace the urn with drums and dagger should not be situational.
dagger is what makes SS a fucking beast.
In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 55
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ScarPe
Germany392 Posts
you should reeplace the urn with drums and dagger should not be situational. dagger is what makes SS a fucking beast. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
On March 07 2014 00:01 ScarPe wrote: shadow shaman: you should reeplace the urn with drums and dagger should not be situational. dagger is what makes SS a fucking beast. Disagree with both of these. Drums isn't as amazing as it used to be while having an Urn on the team is always amazing, and Rhasta is a great Urn carrier. And while Blink is indeed great on Rhasta, it is situational like pretty much every other item. | ||
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ScarPe
Germany392 Posts
because of his crazy CC and teamfight ultimate, rharsa has a pretty low base movementspeed. you can "fix" this by getting your drums up... the dagger has pretty much the same reason. everything that rhatsa needs is a way to get into a good position to use his CC effectively. if you have bad positioning, you jsut die straight away... dagger solves this problem. both items really make the hero a lot stronger. urn doesent. urn isnt bad. its nice to have, but it shouldnt be core. it also dosent give you additional mana for your extremly expensive CC spells. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 07 2014 18:32 ahswtini wrote: So thoughts about integrating these into each hero's strategy section on Liquipedia? It won't be something I'll be doing. | ||
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ScarPe
Germany392 Posts
there are thousands of guides in steam, but its very very unorganisedd, and its hard to find the "right" guide. for myself i am thinking about a "role" guide, just because people dont understand, that there basically are no roles in dota. its more about farmpriority and spellsynergy of the heros. you dont even need a hero with a very high farmpriority. have you ever played a offensive trilane with shaker, kotl, axe? this destroys everything, but then you need to use the momentum of your won trilane to get further and further ahead. thats what people dont get at all. in this particular example: if it comes to axe and shaker having dagger very early + having a mek on kotl. what "coservative" trilane and offlaner could stop that? --- yes thats only on thing that can work, but i feel that people forgot about that. this will not win you a competetive match against any pro team, but it still wrack havoc on nearly every public game. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 07 2014 19:12 ScarPe wrote: if TL.net would open up a guide section with some really really good guides, that would be perfect. there are thousands of guides in steam, but its very very unorganisedd, and its hard to find the "right" guide. These are the right guides, not only because this community is so knowledgeable, but because the guides are consistently updated across the board. If you check the hero builds for each hero, even the most popular were not updated since 2013. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 07 2014 18:03 ScarPe wrote: no you are wrong. because of his crazy CC and teamfight ultimate, rharsa has a pretty low base movementspeed. you can "fix" this by getting your drums up... the dagger has pretty much the same reason. everything that rhatsa needs is a way to get into a good position to use his CC effectively. if you have bad positioning, you jsut die straight away... dagger solves this problem. both items really make the hero a lot stronger. urn doesent. urn isnt bad. its nice to have, but it shouldnt be core. it also dosent give you additional mana for your extremly expensive CC spells. With Blink on support Rhasta I sort of agree. I usually do buy it. Urn is bought as a high-effectiveness early fighting item. Comparisons to Drums are not apt because support fighting items simply are not costed in the range of 2k gold. Particularly with the rising cost and decreasing cost-effectiveness of Drums over the last few patches, it is simply not an impactful first major item on a support. It's just simply awkward to find a time where you'd want to buy Drums. If you care about the early fighting effectiveness of the buildup, Urn gives you much higher early combat effectiveness than a Bracer because the addition of free salves and a 150 damage nuke add more to your fighting power than small amounts of Agi and Intel. If you care about the slightly later teamfight timings, having a straight Blink is better than having Drums. With mid Rhasta, there's a different argument to be had which is that a quick guide like this doesn't properly characterize the situational nature of a mid Rhasta's first major item. Blink-first and Mek-first games are about equally common for me on mid Rhasta, depending on how the tempo of the game develops. | ||
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ScarPe
Germany392 Posts
there are only 3 heros (even 2 when you count invoker as quas wex) that are slower than rhasta. thats for a reason. because he is unmatched in CC! 285 (base ms of rhasta) + 5% = 299,25 , so ~ 300 movement speed. this is faster than 47 heros on the board straight away and faster or equal to 70 heros. so for 1850 gold you get: +9 Strength (+171 HP) +9 Agility (+9% ias, ~+1,2 amor) +9 Intelligence ( +9 dmg, + 297) +3 Damage +5%MS so let me apply tis on a level 7 rhasta (which is a realistic level to get drums, if you konsider him haveing used mass serpent wards at least once, which often kills a bunch of creeps, a tower, or even a hero: Level 1 LP: 511 Mana: 273 Damage: 47-54 Amor: 1.24 Level 7: LP: 723 Mana: 546 Damage: 47-54 (+21) Amor: ~2,5 Level 7 + Drums: LP: 894 Mana: 843 Damage: 47-54 (+30) Amor: ~3,7 Level 7 + Urn: LP: 837 Mana: 546 Damage: 47-54 (+21) Amor: ~2,5 for my typical skillbuild (Level 7: 4/1/1/1) this means following stats in a fight: +57 hp // equals 1-2 support autohit, or 3-5 creep hits +297 mana // equals +1 forked lightning +1 CC (eigther hex or shackle) + the higher movementspeed which allows rhasta to have the slight edge to hit the CC equal to ~60% of all heros. compared to urn: - less life - less reliable mana (only reg), which is also equal to less spells in a single fight. - a heal/dmg over time, which is often interrupted in a fight, so this isnt really reliable too. price: urn only costs ~40% of drums, but it gives you sooooo much less in an actual fight. ----- so please some1 tell me, if you consider the skillset of rhasta being able to CC very hard + the ability to crush an undefended tower (after a fight) within seconds. WHY would you build urn over drums? it just dosent make sense at all! just to make sure: i didnt even consider the small stats that this items gives which give you higher e-hp, manreg, attackspeed + attoattackdmg. casting and attacking - up and downswings also getting huge benefits from MS + IAS on this item, as rhasta has a really really great attackanimation + good basedmg. | ||
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
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ScarPe
Germany392 Posts
that item just gives you the basestats you need to be actually able to fight and survive. straight euls and dagger just lets you die in an instant early on in the game, because your team cant follow you that fast at this point of the game. and why would you really want to wardtrap some1 that often, that you buy an euls for it? thats most of the time a completely wasted ultimate, that could have been used to destroy or save a tower, which is so much better than a simple kill... dota isnt won by kills. and what if you are behind? and dont have the gold to buy that dagger very early? dont get my wrong a dagger is definetly core on rhasta if you have to gold for it, but it still is kinda situational, and drums on the other hand can be bought in small steps that also give needed stats to your hero what makes them the way better choice to consider in general! in addition, with drums + arcboots + dagger + magic stick, you just have as much mana as you need. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
You're more likely to be comparing Urn to a Bracer when you're looking at your items at that level in the game. and what if you are behind? and dont have the gold to buy that dagger very early? dont get my wrong a dagger is definetly core on rhasta if you have to gold for it, but it still is kinda situational, and drums on the other hand can be bought in small steps that also give needed stats to your hero what makes them the way better choice to consider in general! That's the thing. If you are behind and need the cheaper fighting item, you'd rather have an Urn be stronger than a Bracer now than think about how much stronger Drums are 1300 gold from now (especially given how LONG it takes for supports to scrape together 1300 gold in a losing game). If you are in a winning game, then you can get that straight dagger. Drums is a middle of the road item choice that is mediocre in all situations rather than being decisively good in one or another. But DotA is a game where you don't win by making those middle of the road choices--you win by making those decisive lopsided choices that suit the particular game. | ||
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logawa
Brazil13 Posts
I liked, favorited and subscribed to all your guides, and what you're doing to the newbie community is awesome, keep up with the good work. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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logawa
Brazil13 Posts
On March 09 2014 15:23 TheYango wrote: I would list either QWWE or QEWW for Zeus. Both are fine (QEW is safer, but QWW can give you level 3 solo kills surprisingly often at most levels of pub play because many players underestimate your level 3 damage). QWE just doesn't really give you the benefit of either. Yeah, I agree that 2 levels in W can grant an early kill in pub games, but QWE is just wrong. And what about the items recommendations that I said, do you agree? | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On March 09 2014 13:57 logawa wrote: Bloodstone is really good in Zeus if you're getting a lot of kills and your team is doing very well, Eul's help his need of movement speed and mana and the active is really good, Scythe of Vyse is the best item for INT heroes, Rod of Atos gives you a much needed health and good intelligence and the active is not that bad. Also, I'd skill QEWWWRW, cause you can harass with the E, but you can't do much with the early point in W. I liked, favorited and subscribed to all your guides, and what you're doing to the newbie community is awesome, keep up with the good work. I really don't think bloodstone is a good idea on Zeus. If you're stomping the enemy team, extra mana regen doesn't help you stomp them harder. You might as well get veil / aghs / refresher. Personally I've always gone arcanes -> blink -> sheep with a situational ghost scepter / eblade. | ||
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logawa
Brazil13 Posts
On March 09 2014 15:40 synapse wrote: I really don't think bloodstone is a good idea on Zeus. If you're stomping the enemy team, extra mana regen doesn't help you stomp them harder. You might as well get veil / aghs / refresher. Personally I've always gone arcanes -> blink -> sheep with a situational ghost scepter / eblade. Veil, aghs, refresher is pretty good, and gives you insane damage. Blink is more expensive, don't give stats and you can't use if you're being hit. Force Staff is easier to build, gives you stats that you need. Ghost scepter is only good if you're being focused by a hard-hitter. I wouldn't buy a eblade. Sheep and Shiva's for me are extremely luxury. I suggest for starting items tango and 3 branches, cause you can easily last-hit 6 creeps with your Q or right click until the 2 minutes mark and get your bottle, and then buy a magic wand which is good is pretty much every game. | ||
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ScarPe
Germany392 Posts
i belevie it was from merlini and he wrote sth very important: "if you can consider high cost items on zeus, you are eigther farming too much, or you have 12:0 and the game is already won anyways" this is still they way to play the hero and you need items that can help you to keep your momentum. bloodstone isnt one of them. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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