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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 305

Forum Index > The Tavern
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Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
May 16 2016 11:36 GMT
#6081
You only really need one ranged core to justify lvl 1 E on drow. 5 ranged lineup is usually pretty dumb.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Velzi
Profile Joined June 2012
Finland659 Posts
May 16 2016 13:53 GMT
#6082
lvl1 e is fine just for the last hitting, but if u max aura when u are only ranged core in team, u fucked up.

yeah 5 ranged lineup was more like "if u have more than urself who benefits from the aura, then u can THINK about maxing it".

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-17 02:14:49
May 16 2016 22:09 GMT
#6083
If your mirana is core then you should probably look at the phase/RoA/aghs memebuild. I'm not convinced it's as good as people say, but it does make her farm fast. You just build all the same stuff after aghs so you won't need to change much.

Brood should maybe go back to orchid core? idk everything is situational on that hero.

Riki's fine, maybe situational echo sabre. I really dislike this "utility items" section you keep adding to random cores. Gem could easily be in situational and you don't need wind lace and tome in the guide.

KKa should definitely consider maxing E earlier. His skillbuild is hard because it depends on what you get from crushing the other mid's will to live with tidebringer versus ganking with E. I think core max W and support max E is a reasonable compromise.

Support ET is fine. I think aether lens > euls though, and sometimes you want more points in W.

That core ET is super weird. I don't think you max order first in any normal situation, and he's not particularly great as a manfighter. If you really want to play that style he should have blademail and probably drums instead of echo sabre, and a later BKB, but I think Core ET is much better as a mek rusher and aura mule.

Phx should max sunray on support and probably spirits in offlane.

We had the drow discussion several times. It just depends on your team and that's impossible to build into a guide. When she's picked in real games it's pretty much always for aura abuse, but imo delaying the aura is better than rushing it when you have nobody to use it.
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-16 23:08:50
May 16 2016 23:05 GMT
#6084
Yeah updating the Phoenix build is long overdue.

Q-W-E-E-E-R-E is the safest opening for the guide I think. Q-E-E-W-E is more 'correct' but has a bigger difference between good and bad lane match ups.


Riki is tough, it seems like it's still out if he should be core or support but the only real difference between the guides are support items & phase boots or treads.
Logo
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
May 16 2016 23:56 GMT
#6085
On May 16 2016 22:53 Velzi wrote:
lvl1 e is fine just for the last hitting, but if u max aura when u are only ranged core in team, u fucked up.

yeah 5 ranged lineup was more like "if u have more than urself who benefits from the aura, then u can THINK about maxing it".


I mean if there's one other ranged core, e.g. invoker mid drow safe or something.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-17 04:43:10
May 17 2016 04:40 GMT
#6086
servers are once again fucked, cant fucking edit shit.


fuck this fucking server garbage, doing this garbage just to get a buggy shithole of a system.

[image loading]

cant even edit ability builds or save the fucking guide if the servers get overperformed due to a new patch or compendium. Like come on...

so goddamn annoying and no one gives a fuck because nobody makes guides, they just use them.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-17 04:44:28
May 17 2016 04:44 GMT
#6087
On May 17 2016 08:05 Logo wrote:
Yeah updating the Phoenix build is long overdue.

Q-W-E-E-E-R-E is the safest opening for the guide I think. Q-E-E-W-E is more 'correct' but has a bigger difference between good and bad lane match ups.


Riki is tough, it seems like it's still out if he should be core or support but the only real difference between the guides are support items & phase boots or treads.


Is the max sun ray build only for safe lane or can it be offlane too?


I might just change the Middle guide to Offlane and stop delaying the eventuality of my negligence to fucking revise the stupid categorization system.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-17 05:03:37
May 17 2016 05:03 GMT
#6088
If you're offlane you choose between ray and spirits depending on whether you can win the lane with spirits.

Since half the point of offlane phoenix is to screw with the carry using spirits, I think you should max spirits. Or at least 1-2-0 into 1-2-x-1.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-17 15:15:25
May 17 2016 08:10 GMT
#6089
ed
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-17 08:15:45
May 17 2016 08:11 GMT
#6090
On May 16 2016 17:40 Birdie wrote:
Is Drums on Spectre still core? The str and agi nerfs are pretty big IMO


Urn is on Spectre at the moment.

On May 16 2016 17:43 Velzi wrote:
Phase Urn Wand Vanguard seems a lot more appealing i agree, whether we want to go diffu manta or radi after vanguard idk.


Vanguard is over-the-top and not always necessary. Current matches, they just go for the core health orb.

On May 17 2016 07:09 Belisarius wrote:
If your mirana is core then you should probably look at the phase/RoA/aghs memebuild. I'm not convinced it's as good as people say, but it does make her farm fast. You just build all the same stuff after aghs so you won't need to change much.

Brood should maybe go back to orchid core? idk everything is situational on that hero.

Riki's fine, maybe situational echo sabre. I really dislike this "utility items" section you keep adding to random cores. Gem could easily be in situational and you don't need wind lace and tome in the guide.

KKa should definitely consider maxing E earlier. His skillbuild is hard because it depends on what you get from crushing the other mid's will to live with tidebringer versus ganking with E. I think core max W and support max E is a reasonable compromise.

Support ET is fine. I think aether lens > euls though, and sometimes you want more points in W.

That core ET is super weird. I don't think you max order first in any normal situation, and he's not particularly great as a manfighter. If you really want to play that style he should have blademail and probably drums instead of echo sabre, and a later BKB, but I think Core ET is much better as a mek rusher and aura mule.

Phx should max sunray on support and probably spirits in offlane.

We had the drow discussion several times. It just depends on your team and that's impossible to build into a guide. When she's picked in real games it's pretty much always for aura abuse, but imo delaying the aura is better than rushing it when you have nobody to use it.


Ok on Mirana, will take a look

Yes I was thinking similar

ok on riki
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 17 2016 08:16 GMT
#6091
ok there's a lot of feedback, I need to actually go through it all properly.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
May 17 2016 08:49 GMT
#6092
idk why ppl are saying mirana aghs is a meme build
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
prismazure
Profile Joined May 2016
France7 Posts
May 17 2016 09:42 GMT
#6093
Why Midas on Slark? I feel like it's a waste.
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
May 17 2016 10:27 GMT
#6094
nor is the new abyssal an "extension" item on slark. it is highly situational, and in those cases (where there are very elusive heroes that u need to control such as antimage or ember) often u would only buy basher and upgrade to abyssal later. im also worried about the ordering of the items in the extension section. it implies that moonshards should be bought before silver edge or skadi. replace abyssal with mkb, and put basher into situational
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 17 2016 13:36 GMT
#6095
On May 17 2016 18:42 prismazure wrote:
Why Midas on Slark? I feel like it's a waste.


Yes, how so?

It is sometimes built in pub and comp. games. It is not an unusual buy.,
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Velzi
Profile Joined June 2012
Finland659 Posts
May 17 2016 13:45 GMT
#6096
I feel like i rather see my pub spectres go full vanguard or something bigger after the urn rather than going for radi and fail miserably. Atleast with vanguard/drums etc u can soak some damage, but if u are phase urn, u die instantly. I do like the casual Vit Booster but how u implement that into guide is another story.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 17 2016 14:11 GMT
#6097
On May 17 2016 22:45 Velzi wrote:
I feel like i rather see my pub spectres go full vanguard or something bigger after the urn rather than going for radi and fail miserably. Atleast with vanguard/drums etc u can soak some damage, but if u are phase urn, u die instantly. I do like the casual Vit Booster but how u implement that into guide is another story.


With the speed at which they farm, having them deviate to two "safety" items will make them fail miserably more than just trusting them to be able to reach radiance in a remotely decent time.

I created a 'secondary' core build just in case they can't get radiance.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-17 14:16:41
May 17 2016 14:16 GMT
#6098
On May 16 2016 18:48 erickribeiro wrote:


why removed? I was going to read this??? I just didnt get to it yet!
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-17 14:56:56
May 17 2016 14:20 GMT
#6099
On May 16 2016 19:21 Velzi wrote:
Maxing aura with drow is situational at best in pubs because of how line up is build (its really not that simple to convince ur team to pick 5 range line up to get most out of drow aura) so most of the time its more reliable to max frost arrow for higher kill potential than maxing aura for 1-2 heroes (aura doesnt scale that well so u really have to have multiple heroes to get most out higher lvls of aura).

For Mirana, if u go 4-1-1-1, i would max out leap over arrow especially with the current right click build where u get a lot out of increased attack speed with maelstorm and diffusal procs. Problem with the build right now is the fact that u are trying to build right clicker without reliable farm (because it seems like this build starts out as a pos4 and tries to get kills to catch up in farm which doesnt always work out). I would rather see build be either straight out core mirana or support mirana, or possibly both in separate guides.

Beastmaster seems pretty okey, i havent seen Medallion/SR beastmaster forever, maybe take that off? Maybe move aghs to situational aswell because there is blink in core already, they kinda serve same purpose.

Talked about Phoenix earlier.

ET and Brood aint heroes for me, no idea.



I think the skill build is: E W max Storm then Arrow, then Leap still.
Midas situational.
Go to Phase -> Aquila -> Aghs -> Eul's -> Extension

: SR is still situationally good, the item itself has fallen out

roger, I have to get around to it

On May 17 2016 14:03 Belisarius wrote:
If you're offlane you choose between ray and spirits depending on whether you can win the lane with spirits.

Since half the point of offlane phoenix is to screw with the carry using spirits, I think you should max spirits. Or at least 1-2-0 into 1-2-x-1.


got it

On May 16 2016 17:40 Birdie wrote:
Is Drums on Spectre still core? The str and agi nerfs are pretty big IMO


Urn is on Spectre at the moment.

On May 16 2016 17:43 Velzi wrote:
Phase Urn Wand Vanguard seems a lot more appealing i agree, whether we want to go diffu manta or radi after vanguard idk.


Vanguard is over-the-top and not always necessary. Current matches, they just go for the core health orb.

On May 17 2016 07:09 Belisarius wrote:
If your mirana is core then you should probably look at the phase/RoA/aghs memebuild. I'm not convinced it's as good as people say, but it does make her farm fast. You just build all the same stuff after aghs so you won't need to change much.

Brood should maybe go back to orchid core? idk everything is situational on that hero.

Riki's fine, maybe situational echo sabre. I really dislike this "utility items" section you keep adding to random cores. Gem could easily be in situational and you don't need wind lace and tome in the guide.

KKa should definitely consider maxing E earlier. His skillbuild is hard because it depends on what you get from crushing the other mid's will to live with tidebringer versus ganking with E. I think core max W and support max E is a reasonable compromise.

Support ET is fine. I think aether lens > euls though, and sometimes you want more points in W.

That core ET is super weird. I don't think you max order first in any normal situation, and he's not particularly great as a manfighter. If you really want to play that style he should have blademail and probably drums instead of echo sabre, and a later BKB, but I think Core ET is much better as a mek rusher and aura mule.

Phx should max sunray on support and probably spirits in offlane.

We had the drow discussion several times. It just depends on your team and that's impossible to build into a guide. When she's picked in real games it's pretty much always for aura abuse, but imo delaying the aura is better than rushing it when you have nobody to use it.


Ok on Mirana, will take a look

Yes I was thinking similar

ok on riki

yes, that is my situation with kunkka right now that I need help deciding on

Really? Isn't it Eul's before Aether to maximize its value + movement speed is needed

: roger that and midas for offlane or is it something else now?
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-20 00:06:00
May 17 2016 15:15 GMT
#6100
ed
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
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