EPTbkb takes priority over blink probably
In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 287
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tehh4ck3r
Magrathea7063 Posts
bkb takes priority over blink probably | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On March 02 2016 12:01 tehh4ck3r wrote: for pubs its probably best to have sny first bkb takes priority over blink probably i think sny > blink > bkb depends on the game, with blink u have a lot more flexibility in how u engage. if u see the opportunity u can just blink and instagib any heroes that would disable you. or u can just let ur team initiate and tank the first round of disables before going in | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 03 2016 02:24 Logo wrote: It seems like the items may need some shuffling too. Aether lens is really popular on Phoenix in the pro scene. Yes, I have to try the build. I have a feeling it is like Oracle where if you are fully itemized; it is great, but it can be less restricting in terms of play to go a more support route. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On March 03 2016 05:48 Torte de Lini wrote: Yes, I have to try the build. I have a feeling it is like Oracle where if you are fully itemized; it is great, but it can be less restricting in terms of play to go a more support route. Well Phoenix is pretty good at making use of the stats it provides (unlike Oracle?). Both the mana and the hp regen come in handy on top of the useful effect. The problem with traditional support items (Glimmer, Force staff, Eul's) on Phoenix is most of the fight Phoenix can't actually use them because of Ray and Egg. Mek is better (can use during ray) and a decent choice if you feel like your team needs it, but as support you're not in the best position to farm it. Urn is pretty good on Phoenix and a fine small item before Aether, but I don't know how much else really works well as a general build. Then something like Eul's for yourself or Ghost would be really a situational build. I feel like there are four main paths for Phoenix: Midas -> bigger items (Shiva's etc.). The traditional offlane itemization. Mek A slower offlane build or rich support build. If you're a rich offlane you'd just get Midas -> Mek probably unless your team was really going all in early. Veil when you have a lot of team magic damage you can amplify on top of your spirits & egg. Aether Lens otherwise. With early game stuff before that being some combo of tranquils, urn, and wand. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Phoenix, still gotta play her. Phantom Lancer already two points in stats earlier, but I added two more before maxing Rush last. Had a 6k player get mad at me for going Power Treads as PL which annoyed me. Also did a rough calculation of # of guides removed and number of subscriptions: 13 guides (134 total) 6,135,011 total removed. It's surprising how close some of them are to their counterpart. Kind of breaks my heart to think about deleting them. | ||
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Velzi
Finland659 Posts
 I feel like there are four main paths for Phoenix: Midas -> bigger items (Shiva's etc.). The traditional offlane itemization. Mek A slower offlane build or rich support build. If you're a rich offlane you'd just get Midas -> Mek probably unless your team was really going all in early. Veil when you have a lot of team magic damage you can amplify on top of your spirits & egg. Aether Lens otherwise. This makes sense, the problem tho is to include all the thinking process into guide with limited space and item slots. I actually havent tried Aether Lens Phoenix, maybe because i dont play support phoenix, guess i should. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
i think veil is always good, cuz hp regen and solves ur mana pool problems. i'd only get euls vs heroes like silencer or storm that can make me useless at the start of a fight | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On March 03 2016 22:02 Velzi wrote: Think of it as an investment for the future, to get more money u have to spend money This makes sense, the problem tho is to include all the thinking process into guide with limited space and item slots. I actually havent tried Aether Lens Phoenix, maybe because i dont play support phoenix, guess i should. I don't know if it's all that bad. Basically I'd recommend something like: Support: Core Items: Wand, Tranquils, Urn, Aether Lens Situational: Mek, Veil, BKB* Extension: Shiva's Core: Core Items: Wand, Tranquils, Urn Midas Before 15 Minutes Situational: Mek, Aether Lens**, Veil, BKB* Extension: Shiva's *BKB I think is more important for Phoenix now because of Ray's increased usefulness especially with Aether Lens. **Could also go in Extension Other Situational/Luxury/Extension items: Blink (Egg & beam positioning) Eul's (Self purge & catch) Atos (When your team picks terribly and you have no disables or vs evasion) Ghost Scepter For when you need ghost scepter Less confident, fun but not as guide worth items: Eblade (?) Impractical, but great mechanics in relation to both sunray and Egg (even without amplifying ray's damage). Refresher Also impractical, but against some line-ups it can dominate the game. Then like any of the usual support-ish items like Pipe, Lotus Orb, Scythe are all good. Halberd - I just don't like this item on Phoenix, but it should probably stay situational since it's popular. You only get it when your team is struggling vs a core, but by the time you get it the enemy right clicker can easily have a bkb which makes it really awkward to use especially since it's a targeted item you can't use during ray (or egg obviously). Basically the overlap of "threatening right click carries" and "does not have a bkb" is too small for my liking. Since Phoenix doesn't right click much a lot of the spend gold goes to waste and even the evasion feels lackluster in most cases (you may as well get Ghost if that's a concern). I think Agh's has proven itself sufficiently unsuited for the guide. Especially because it makes it slightly harder to clutch-time supernova if you aren't used to holding aghs on top of only being beneficial with high coordination. The only people who should be getting Phoenix Aghs are people who know enough to disobey the guide. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On March 04 2016 02:11 ahswtini wrote: wheres octarine core in that list Intentionally not there. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 03 2016 22:02 Velzi wrote: Think of it as an investment for the future, to get more money u have to spend money I mean, if we're frank, the time dedicated is enough of a spent investment and the results are, by all measurements, sufficiently great and consistent for 1+ year. But I get what you're saying. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
 PuckMoved Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items Moved Dagon to Extension Items  SvenNew Skill Build: Q E E W W R W W E E R Q Q Q R (1. Great Cleave 2. Warcry 3. Storm Hammer) Created New Tab: "Early Game" Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game" Added Helm of the Dominator to Core Items Added Sange & Yasha to Core Items Added Satanic to Extension Items Moved Quelling Blade to "Early Game" Removed Mask of Madness Removed Abyssal Blade  Phantom LancerNew Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q Stats Stats W R W W Stats Stats R E E E (1. Phantom Lance 2. Doppelganger 3. Phantom Rush) Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items Removed Moon Shard Removed Daedalus Removed Abyssal Blade Faceless Void Added Diffusal Blade to Situational Items Added Daedalus to Extension Items Added Mjollnir to Extension Items Removed Sange & Yashe Removed Assault Cuirass Removed Manta Style Earth Spirit (Middle) Earth Spirit (Lane) Added Orb of Venom to Core Items Moved Force Staff to Situational Items Moved Aether Lens to Extension Items Moved Guardian Greaves to Extension Items Removed Shiva's Guard  EnchantressMoved Drums of Endurance to Core Items To-Do 1. Update Contributor's List 2. Revise Build Categories (tentative thoughts: Middle, Jungle, Safe[lane], Off[lane], Support) 3. split phoenix builds into support/core 4. done5. done 6. done7. Update contributor's list 8. Follow-up draft transitional system [blog/feedback] | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
and why is it absent | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
Because I think it's a bad item on Phoenix. First off it's just incredibly expensive so you need to be very over fed to go for it. The cooldown reduction isn't that amazing for a single fight. You probably won't get off any additional spells. You'll launch your first round of spells then usually egg then get another round of spells off. The cooldown reduction at that point isn't really doing much. By the time you get an extra spell the fight will have to had been going on for a very long time. Egg between fight cooldown isn't a big deal. 110 isn't that bad. The thing is too if you care so much about egg cooldown that late into the game it means you can still reliably egg. If that's the case I'd almost always rather have the refresher on hand to double egg to win a single fight or be able to fight twice in rapid succession in a potent way (if your egg is down you can also ray/spirit -> refresh -> ray/spirit -> egg -> ray/spirt). Spell vamp is nice, but you're a phoenix with 1300+ range spells and honestly I think your life pool is just not much of an issue unless you're caught out. And the problem there is if you're caught out, even in the middle of a fight rather than the start, your magical damage isn't that significant. You need ray going to really vamp up in a big way. Also for general survivability I'd almost always rather a BKB and/or ghost scepter. Both of which can protect you from some form disables (ministun & bash for ghost scepter) and open a better chance to get a full duration sunray off. Even if the enemies have a bkb piercing disable unless it's an AoE one like Chrono or black hole it's usually well worth tanking one for your actual cores especially since you have the threat of egg if the enemy team doesn't burst you or perfectly line up their disables. But maybe the bigger thing to me is that it leans into Phoenix's BKB weakness even more. By the time you consider Octarine you already have some items. Probably things like Shiva's and Aether lens and maybe even some defensive items. At that point in the game the biggest thing giving you trouble is BKB-ed up cores (or even not-cores sometimes). Which Octarine does nothing for. So you can get into situations where you aren't able to contribute much in fights until the BKBs drop. So like between the two I'd almost always prefer seeing Scythe because it means as Phoenix you have the chance to get a drop on someone before they bkb which just has way more practical use for your team than you having an octarine. | ||
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tehh4ck3r
Magrathea7063 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 05 2016 00:59 tehh4ck3r wrote: shouldn't Sven take stats instead of increased levels in storm hammer It's preference, but yes (because the stun damage is negligible that late) | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The damage scaling on Storm Hammer is actually pretty good. It's just that it doesn't do anything during a farming phase. | ||
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