EPT Publishing Changes
In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 286
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Velzi
Finland659 Posts
Then there is Captain's Draft 3.0 where almost every offlane phoenix went max spirit and every support max sun ray. Literally everyone else except universe (IRONIC) maxes w>e>q in the offlane and e>w>q in the support. Universe pretty much skipped sun ray until 8-9. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
After ~15 days (February 11 to February 26), we have risen from 123,117,792 to 125,964,469 combined subscriptions A difference of 2,846,677 Average Subscribers per Guide is 856,901.15 Growth Percentage is 2.31% 5 least popular guides (bottom being the least popular):
5 most popular guides (top being the most popular): Notable Growths in Subscriptions:
Newly Released Guides: Patreon.com/Torte, this project continues to be made possible by the contributions of: Alli Goss, Josh Laseter, Leon Traill, Alishams Hassam, Duncan, Ramona Brown, Igor Dolgiy, Slashershot, Kurt Freda, JimmaDaRustla, Samuel Enocsson, Joel Absolom, Jordan Spence, Milk Jug Armadillo, Matthew Nami, Max Kemeny, Jose Cacho, Tobias Iskov Thomsen, Moe Foster, Daniel Thackray, Patrick Colton, Nicholas Chlumecky, Maxime Lebled, Elliot Cuite, Patrick Schreck, Batlomieg Jan Pasek, Kevin Hutton, Dice, Scott Cherington, Mikey Kaminski, Nicolas Chlumecky, Pearson Mewbourne, Flintopher, Kistaro Windrider Portions of their pledges will go to long-time community members, dedicated to providing feedback to keep this collection of hero builds accurate to current standards of play. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
either way im just not sure it translates to pub play at the level of the guides' target audience bc your avg 2-3k player won't understand how to properly use it. im going to stand by the max spirits over sunray bc of the argument i made earlier for prioritizing the egg and the fact that you have to rely on yourself to protect the egg, not your teammates. EDIT: ok i completely forgot it got buffed 2 patches straight, in particular this patch. that turn rate is SOOOOO much better than last patch. i retract my argument. i'd trust someone with that ability, now. | ||
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United States7542 Posts
On February 28 2016 05:42 BluemoonSC wrote: either way im just not sure it translates to pub play at the level of the guides' target audience bc your avg 2-3k player won't understand how to properly use it. im going to stand by the max spirits over sunray bc of the argument i made earlier for prioritizing the egg and the fact that you have to rely on yourself to protect the egg, not your teammates. EDIT: ok i completely forgot it got buffed 2 patches straight, in particular this patch. that turn rate is SOOOOO much better than last patch. i retract my argument. i'd trust someone with that ability, now. Yeah that's definitely the game changer. It spins fast enough now to track targets way more reliably making it a lot easier to use with a slow or clean up after a stun wears off. Ultimately with spirits nerfed and Ray buffed you need to be good at using ray to play Phoenix anyways. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
 PuckMoved Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items Moved Dagon to Extension Items | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
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Velzi
Finland659 Posts
 Im not a Puck expert but doesnt Octarine Core decrease cooldown of Phase Shift so low that u should always get the blink off with Euls? Obviously it should be luxury or something, not the first item after blink. Then again my <40% winrate with Puck might disagree with everything i just stated so... Do we really need 3 guides for Bloodseeker? Mid and Lane are very close to each other, both the guide and subscriptions are basicly same. Actually Jungle is pretty much the same too, only differences are if u buy midas or not and if u buy Iron Talon/PMS/Orb of Venom/Magic Wand right now. And for some reason jungle has Blademail situational where as others have it core. I havent seen Eul's BS since forever, is it really a thing anymore? Even one guide would be enough if u made Jungle tab in the item descriptions but then again u lose 1 000 000 subs if u remove mid and jungle. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I will have to try it some more. Personally, I still like Spirits and Dive maxed. | ||
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Verniy
Canada3360 Posts
levelling dive doesn't seem to matter that much (the only thing that increases is the damage, which is pretty meh even at max level) max dive is 280 damage max spirits is up to 1120 damage if you don't overlap the durations at all in order for max ray to match max spirits on damage you have to be hitting a unit that has ~1.8k HP but this isn't accounting for the fact that all of these spells can hit multiple units, or for the fact that sun ray also heals in addition to dealing damage even if you're maxing spirits first i'm pretty sure you max ray second though | ||
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United States7542 Posts
On February 29 2016 06:47 Verniy wrote: pretty sure this has been discussed already but levelling dive doesn't seem to matter that much (the only thing that increases is the damage, which is pretty meh even at max level) max dive is 280 damage max spirits is up to 1120 damage if you don't overlap the durations at all in order for max ray to match max spirits on damage you have to be hitting a unit that has ~1.8k HP but this isn't accounting for the fact that all of these spells can hit multiple units, or for the fact that sun ray also heals in addition to dealing damage even if you're maxing spirits first i'm pretty sure you max ray second though 4 Spirits on one target only ever really matters if you're ganking someone with little/no help. If you sit there trying to spend 16 seconds in a team fight doing that you're probably losing the teamfight mighty quick by not contributing significantly. Also you're accounting for the damage types, spirits are magical damage ray is pure. So that 1120 damage is immediately cut down to 840 actual damage. The % portion of sun ray only needs to deal 570 damage then which means an enemy only needs 1.5k hp, but that damage is also done over 6 seconds instead of 16 of course. So there's the big difference of it's is better to drop a hero earlier or deal potentially more overall damage. Dive second used to be more attractive, in part because ray was a lot worse especially without setup. The difference then is dive would boost your dmg output enough to actually be a good solo kill threat and ray in an aggressive situation can leave you with low hp that would be risky with your aggressive positioning. Or it could just be straight up worthless because your target can immediately stun/silence you. Plus it just didn't track fast enough to reliably deal significant damage and it didn't (and doesn't) move fast enough to stay on top of your intended kill target if they were decently far away. But again I still think spirit max has a lot of merit from the offlane for a variety of reasons (contests the lane, gives solo kill potential, boost farming speed, and you'll max both pretty early into the game anyways. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
- more damage in a 5v5 - the heal rocks - a bit safer to use Spirits - more damage in lane and in small fights - attack slow is ludicrous - important for getting a big egg - cancer to lane against - farms better I think an offlane phoenix almost always wants spirits because of how much they mess with the carry's lasthits. I've tended to assume he's in the offlane for that reason even when supporting, but he's getting run in a much more conventional support role at Shanghai and it seems to be working. If he's safelane against an offlaner that can't lasthit anyway, he probably only needs the one level of spirits to make him untradeable and then he can just get beam. I agree it's super strong now. It's just not very good in lane on a hero who used to picked for his laning pressure. I can see safelane support phoenix maxing spirits if he's contested, or if the debuff is valuable in fights (eg. screwing with ursa/TA etc), or if he's doing well enough that a yolo egg play is on the cards, or if he'll be lv9 anyway before 5v5s break out. I think 4-4-0-1 is for when you're stomping your lane and the stacked DoTs make you totally uncontrollable. It also flashfarms really well if there's a window where you can leverage that. Beam is just way stronger once there's more than a couple of heroes in play, though. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
To-Do 1. Update Contributor's List 2. Revise Build Categories (tentative thoughts: Middle, Jungle, Safe[lane], Off[lane], Support) 3. split phoenix builds into support/core 4.  revive skill/item order5. double-check item build(s) | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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United States7542 Posts
I've been playing support Phoenix lately because of the discussion here and it's been going really well except for the first 4-5 minutes when I'm stuck as solo support who can't trade hits with the offlaner and only have level 1 spells to work with (being < level 3). I've tried both the items recommended in the guide and going like faerie fire & regen and neither have seem like real winners if you're stuck as a solo support (or even in dual lanes). The 0 base armor makes it extremely difficult to zone out anyone. I feel like I'm constantly letting my safelane down, but then making up for it by making large amounts of space at level 6-10 with my high kill potential. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
If you don't have spirits available, you can't trade because your stats are ass. That's just the support phoenix lyf. Starting items I think you pretty much have to get the normal obs+cour+regen+ggs. If someone else buys the support stuff, RoP helps you trade and lets you sideshop tranqs, but I don't think you can plan to have that much gold as a pub support. | ||
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United States7542 Posts
On March 01 2016 07:03 Belisarius wrote: You should be able to trade just fine if you fire spirit them first. If you don't have spirits available, you can't trade because your stats are ass. That's just the support phoenix lyf. Starting items I think you pretty much have to get the normal obs+cour+regen+ggs. If someone else buys the support stuff, RoP helps you trade and lets you sideshop tranqs, but I don't think you can plan to have that much gold as a pub support. It's not uncommon to have someone at least share the duties so you can get an extra 75 or 150 gold out of the deal, but I guess for the guide you write it assuming you're buying all the support stuff. If you can't zone as a solo support without fire spirits then what build do you recommend for the guide. Max sunray ideally gets fire spirits at 4 so you have kill potential at level 3 with level 2 ray, but that build lacks any zoning tools at level 1 & 2. Skipping dive is just not really an option, especially with 0 base armor and a poor movement speed. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
Beam is maybe a bit more damage in a kill attempt depending on the situation, but that's not worth having 0 ability to zone the offlaner till level 4. Teams at shanghai seem to be very varied. Jerax goes QWWE, kaka seems to like EWEQ. Most of the others are a mix as well. It's pretty rare for them to hold spirits till 4 and I assume that's only when the offlaner is a nonfactor. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I will change Sven to the new build, but I need to determine when Blink/BKB/S&Y should be bought (in which order), knowing full well that it depends on the line-up and how the game is going. | ||
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