EPTIn-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 283
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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Torte de Lini
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/D5zOKD0.png) 1 million unique for  VenomancerIf interested in a timeline of 1 million hits and milestones, you can check it here: http://steamcommunity.com/id/0825771 *50 guides have hit their 1 million unique on the day of this project's 3-year anniversary | ||
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Heroes who have mid/lane guides that could be easily condensed into a single "Core" guide with "Earlygame - mid" tab Alc Change: -12 guidesBeastmaster Bloodseeker Brew DK Ember Gyro LC Slark Sniper Tiny Troll Weaver Heroes who currently have mid/lane guides where these can be retained as core/support Arc Warden Change: +0 guidesEarth Spirit Elder Titan Kunkka* Leshrac Lina* Naga* Nyx Phoenix? Silencer Windranger* *heroes which currently have two core builds but could change one to a support build Supports who currently have mid/lane guides where I think a core guide is genuinely unnecessary AA Change: -5 guidesOracle Rhasta Skywrath Warlock? Heroes who currently have single guides who could have both core/support: Bounty hunter Change: +5 guidesSpirit breaker Wraith King Zeus All other guides would require no change beyond renaming. In particular, I would leave jungle guides alone at the moment. These often require vastly different skillbuilds to lane and that can't be easily represented in a condensed guide. Obviously, the heroes with guides up for real addition and deletion are debatable. I would err on the side of caution and only delete things which show no signs of becoming relevant again in the future. You might not feel you need to delete any after the reduction from the first group. BELISARIUS: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/the-tavern/453377-in-game-standard-hero-builds-120-million-subscriptions?page=256#5119 + Show Spoiler [Jan 21 2016] + Alright, to start us off here's all the heroes separated into core/support/offlane, by my (sometimes questionable) judgement. This comes to 144 guides total, even being generous with some edge cases like both core and support warlock. I still think this will result in less changes than you might think, because most of the 1-role heroes can go straight across with just a rename. Torte do you still have a bookmark to those posts last time we discussed this? I'm leaving the junglers alone. Although I personally hate jungle lifestealer, I recognise that it's one of the most popular guides so as far as I'm concerned they can all just sit there in a vacuum.
The names are arbitrary, but I'd suggest using offlane as sparingly as possible, reserved either for when a hero is near-exclusively played offlane (eg. darkseer, clock), or has a clear core/support build and a markedly different build in the offlane (eg. morph). Otherwise you'll have people taking "offlane" builds mid with heroes like beastmaster. Some examples of debatable heroes would be ench, tusk and BH; their dps builds often come out of offlane, but in practice those builds are carries and can be run in a lot of lanes. Techies idk. EDIT: I do not understand why the forum's tabstops are different in the editor to the final post, but it just made me real mad BELISARIUS; http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/the-tavern/453377-in-game-standard-hero-builds-120-million-subscriptions?page=282#5628 + Show Spoiler [Jan 21 2016] + Okay, here's everything in the context of the current guides Unchanged, except for renaming Abaddon -> Support Ancient Apparition (Lane) -> Support  Anti-Mage -> Core Axe (Jungle) Axe (Lane) -> Offlane Bane -> Support Batrider -> Offlane Bloodseeker (Jungle) Bristleback -> Core Broodmother -> OfflaneCentaur Warrunner -> Offlane Chaos Knight -> Core  Chen -> Jungle Clinkz _> Core Clockwerk -> OfflaneCrystal Maiden -> Support  Dark Seer -> Offlane Dazzle -> SupportDeath Prophet -> Core  Disruptor -> Support Doom (Jungle) Doom (Lane) -> CoreDragon Knight (Middle) -> Core Drow Ranger -> Core  Earthshaker -> SupportEarth Spirit (Lane) -> Support Elder Titan (Lane) -> Support  Enchantress -> Jungle Enigma -> JungleFaceless Void -> Offlane  Huskar -> Core Invoker -> Core QWIO -> Support  Jakiro -> Support Juggernaut -> CoreKeeper of the Light -> Support  Lich -> Support Lifestealer (Lane) -> Core Lifestealer (Jungle) Lion -> SupportLone Druid (Lane) -> Core  Luna -> CoreLycan (Lane) -> Core Lycan (Jungle)  Magnus -> Core Medusa -> Core Meepo -> Core Mirana -> Core Morphling -> CoreNaga Siren (Middle) -> Core Nature's Prophet -> Core Necrophos -> Core Night Stalker -> Offlane Nyx Assassin (Lane) -> Support Ogre Magi -> Support  Omniknight -> SupportOracle (Lane) -> Support Outworld Devourer -> Core  Phantom Assassin -> Core Phantom Lancer -> CorePhoenix (Lane) -> Support  Puck -> Core Pudge -> Roam Pugna -> CoreQueen of Pain -> Core  Razor -> Core Riki -> Core Rubick -> SupportSand King -> Support  Shadow Demon -> Support Shadow Fiend -> Core Shadow Shaman (Lane) -> Support Skywrath Mage (Lane) -> Support  Slardar -> Offlane Slark (Lane) -> Core  Sniper (Lane) -> Core Spectre -> CoreStorm Spirit -> Core  Sven -> CoreTechies -> Roam Templar Assassin -> Core Terrorblade -> Core  Tidehunter -> Offlane Timbersaw -> Offlane Tinker -> CoreTreant Protector -> Support Troll Warlord (Lane) -> Core  Tusk -> Support Undying -> Offlane Ursa (Jungle) Ursa (Lane) -> CoreVengeful Spirit -> Support Venomancer -> Support Viper -> Core Visage -> Support Warlock (Lane) -> Support Weaver (Lane) -> CoreWinter Wyvern -> Support  Witch Doctor -> SupportWraith King -> Core  Zeus -> CoreMinor changes, usually merging a mid/safelane guide into a core guide  Alchemist (Middle) -> CoreArc Warden (Middle) -> Core  Beastmaster (Lane) -> Core Bloodseeker (Lane) -> Core Brewmaster (Middle) -> CoreElder Titan (Middle) -> Core Ember Spirit (Lane) -> Core  Gyrocopter (Lane) -> Core Kunkka (Middle) -> CoreLegion Commander (Lane) -> Core  Leshrac (Middle) -> Core Lina (Middle) -> CoreNyx Assassin (Middle) -> Core Phoenix (Middle) -> Core  Silencer (Middle) -> CoreSpirit Breaker -> Roam  Tiny (Middle) -> Core Warlock (Middle) -> CoreWindranger (Lane) -> Core Major changes, generally turning a spare mid/safe guide into a support Arc Warden (Lane) -> Support Bounty Hunter -> Roam Kunkka (Lane) -> Support Leshrac (Lane) -> Support Lina (Lane) -> SupportLegion Commander (Middle) -> Jungle Naga Siren (Lane) -> Support Silencer (Lane) -> SupportWindranger (Middle) -> Support Delete: redundant guides from mid/safe merge with no other use (check pairs and delete the one with least subscribers) Bloodseeker (Middle) Brewmaster (Lane) Dragon Knight (Lane) Ember Spirit (Middle) Slark (Middle) Sniper (Middle) Tiny (Lane) Troll Warlord (Middle) Weaver (Middle)Probably delete: guides that could either be repurposed or ditched, plus some egregiously outdated builds Alchemist (Lane) -> Support?Ancient Apparition (Middle) Beastmaster (Middle) -> Support?Earth Spirit (Middle) -> Core? Gyrocopter (Middle) -> Support? Lone Druid (Jungle) Oracle (Middle) Shadow Shaman (Middle)Skywrath Mage (Middle) New guides Enchantress Offlane Invoker Core QE Mirana Support/RoamVenge Core Zeus SupportPossible guides Bounty Hunter Offlane Void Core Morph Offlane Pudge Core Pugna Support Veno CoreSpirit Breaker Offlane Tusk CoreWraith King Support It might be worth labelling a few very specific heroes as "roam", like techies, pudge, spiritbreaker and bounty. It would get us around having to create their parallel guides. My instinct is that a lot of 2k players would avoid subscribing to a pudge guide that explicitly labels them a support, but would be comfortable with roam. BELISARIUS: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/the-tavern/453377-in-game-standard-hero-builds-120-million-subscriptions?page=282#5636 | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On February 23 2016 00:19 Logo wrote: Phoenix support plays almost exactly like offlane Phoenix except you buy wards and are poorer as a result. At best you swap going for 4 dive for something like 2 dive & beam earlier, but that's pretty situational. I don't dislike the idea of both guides, especially since 2 already exist, but they also don't really differ much so it's a bit of a waste. If you're having a good game you still go for midas for the levels, if you're getting smashed around (or have typical support poorness you still consider items like mek. I think heroes like Phoenix and Enchantress are one of the toughest things to handle. The guides are almost identical in both roles, but then there's a question of whether or not you are on the hook for wards/courier. It's such a waste to have a whole new guide just to tell people to buy wards, but it does have an actual tangible difference (especially in starting items). I agree offlane/support Phoenix is a small difference. If the guide didn't already exist I wouldn't be clamouring to add it, but since this change should net us 5-10 more guides' headroom, we may as well keep it for now. If we run out of space in a couple patches we can put support phx, support wr, etc under the axe then. Ench is a bit different because there's a more clearcut distinction. In my opinion jungle enchantress should basically be a support, with higher ranks of enchant/sprites and more focus on ganking/pushing with urn/force into later aghs unless she's stomping. Lane ench is free to build midas/straight DPS because she hopefully has two real supports shoring the team up. That said, I'm not convinced offlane ench is more than a 1-patch fad, so I wouldn't be opposed to waiting to see if it sticks around. Overall I like the idea of using Core as liberally as possible over specifically offlane/safelane. Someone like void is only played offlane right now typically, but in a pub environment & in the future it'd be quite easy for that role to expand. There are plenty of line ups that should still win with a void offlane (like if you have a greedy farming mid and offlane). The thing you need to worry about is people taking 'core' guides mid when they shouldn't. That's the whole point of a core guide, though. Any hero who can be run both mid and safelane gets tabs saying "earlygame - mid" and "earlygame - lane" or whatever, with bottle and any variation in starting items covered there. There are some heroes whose optimal skillbuild would change between safelane and mid, and it's true that we can't represent that, but I've yet to think of an example where that would be catastrophic. Suboptimal skillbuilds are nothing new for these guides. EDIT: oh, you mean people taking it as license to do mid antimage or whatever? Yeah maybe. Idk at some point nature is always gonna design a better idiot. | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
and mid sand king 0% mid spectre though RiP | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On February 23 2016 09:25 Torte de Lini wrote: + Show Spoiler [Dec 24 2015] + Heroes who have mid/lane guides that could be easily condensed into a single "Core" guide with "Earlygame - mid" tab Alc Change: -12 guidesBeastmaster Bloodseeker Brew DK Ember Gyro LC Slark Sniper Tiny Troll Weaver Heroes who currently have mid/lane guides where these can be retained as core/support Arc Warden Change: +0 guidesEarth Spirit Elder Titan Kunkka* Leshrac Lina* Naga* Nyx Phoenix? Silencer Windranger* *heroes which currently have two core builds but could change one to a support build Supports who currently have mid/lane guides where I think a core guide is genuinely unnecessary AA Change: -5 guidesOracle Rhasta Skywrath Warlock? Heroes who currently have single guides who could have both core/support: Bounty hunter Change: +5 guidesSpirit breaker Wraith King Zeus All other guides would require no change beyond renaming. In particular, I would leave jungle guides alone at the moment. These often require vastly different skillbuilds to lane and that can't be easily represented in a condensed guide. Obviously, the heroes with guides up for real addition and deletion are debatable. I would err on the side of caution and only delete things which show no signs of becoming relevant again in the future. You might not feel you need to delete any after the reduction from the first group. BELISARIUS: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/the-tavern/453377-in-game-standard-hero-builds-120-million-subscriptions?page=256#5119 + Show Spoiler [Jan 21 2016] + Alright, to start us off here's all the heroes separated into core/support/offlane, by my (sometimes questionable) judgement. This comes to 144 guides total, even being generous with some edge cases like both core and support warlock. I still think this will result in less changes than you might think, because most of the 1-role heroes can go straight across with just a rename. Torte do you still have a bookmark to those posts last time we discussed this? I'm leaving the junglers alone. Although I personally hate jungle lifestealer, I recognise that it's one of the most popular guides so as far as I'm concerned they can all just sit there in a vacuum.
The names are arbitrary, but I'd suggest using offlane as sparingly as possible, reserved either for when a hero is near-exclusively played offlane (eg. darkseer, clock), or has a clear core/support build and a markedly different build in the offlane (eg. morph). Otherwise you'll have people taking "offlane" builds mid with heroes like beastmaster. Some examples of debatable heroes would be ench, tusk and BH; their dps builds often come out of offlane, but in practice those builds are carries and can be run in a lot of lanes. Techies idk. EDIT: I do not understand why the forum's tabstops are different in the editor to the final post, but it just made me real mad BELISARIUS; http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/the-tavern/453377-in-game-standard-hero-builds-120-million-subscriptions?page=282#5628 + Show Spoiler [Jan 21 2016] + Okay, here's everything in the context of the current guides Unchanged, except for renaming Abaddon -> Support Ancient Apparition (Lane) -> Support Anti-Mage -> Core Axe (Jungle) Axe (Lane) -> Offlane Bane -> Support Batrider -> Offlane Bloodseeker (Jungle) Bristleback -> Core Broodmother -> OfflaneCentaur Warrunner -> Offlane Chaos Knight -> Core Chen -> Jungle Clinkz _> Core Clockwerk -> OfflaneCrystal Maiden -> Support Dark Seer -> Offlane Dazzle -> SupportDeath Prophet -> Core Disruptor -> Support Doom (Jungle) Doom (Lane) -> CoreDragon Knight (Middle) -> Core Drow Ranger -> Core Earthshaker -> SupportEarth Spirit (Lane) -> Support Elder Titan (Lane) -> Support Enchantress -> Jungle Enigma -> JungleFaceless Void -> Offlane Huskar -> Core Invoker -> Core QWIO -> Support Jakiro -> Support Juggernaut -> CoreKeeper of the Light -> Support Lich -> Support Lifestealer (Lane) -> Core Lifestealer (Jungle) Lion -> SupportLone Druid (Lane) -> Core Luna -> CoreLycan (Lane) -> Core Lycan (Jungle) Magnus -> Core Medusa -> Core Meepo -> Core Mirana -> Core Morphling -> CoreNaga Siren (Middle) -> Core Nature's Prophet -> Core Necrophos -> Core Night Stalker -> Offlane Nyx Assassin (Lane) -> Support Ogre Magi -> Support Omniknight -> SupportOracle (Lane) -> Support Outworld Devourer -> Core Phantom Assassin -> Core Phantom Lancer -> CorePhoenix (Lane) -> Support Puck -> Core Pudge -> Roam Pugna -> CoreQueen of Pain -> Core Razor -> Core Riki -> Core Rubick -> SupportSand King -> Support Shadow Demon -> Support Shadow Fiend -> Core Shadow Shaman (Lane) -> Support Skywrath Mage (Lane) -> Support Slardar -> Offlane Slark (Lane) -> Core Sniper (Lane) -> Core Spectre -> CoreStorm Spirit -> Core Sven -> CoreTechies -> Roam Templar Assassin -> Core Terrorblade -> Core Tidehunter -> Offlane Timbersaw -> Offlane Tinker -> CoreTreant Protector -> Support Troll Warlord (Lane) -> Core Tusk -> Support Undying -> Offlane Ursa (Jungle) Ursa (Lane) -> CoreVengeful Spirit -> Support Venomancer -> Support Viper -> Core Visage -> Support Warlock (Lane) -> Support Weaver (Lane) -> CoreWinter Wyvern -> Support Witch Doctor -> SupportWraith King -> Core Zeus -> CoreMinor changes, usually merging a mid/safelane guide into a core guide Alchemist (Middle) -> CoreArc Warden (Middle) -> Core Beastmaster (Lane) -> Core Bloodseeker (Lane) -> Core Brewmaster (Middle) -> CoreElder Titan (Middle) -> Core Ember Spirit (Lane) -> Core Gyrocopter (Lane) -> Core Kunkka (Middle) -> CoreLegion Commander (Lane) -> Core Leshrac (Middle) -> Core Lina (Middle) -> CoreNyx Assassin (Middle) -> Core Phoenix (Middle) -> Core Silencer (Middle) -> CoreSpirit Breaker -> Roam Tiny (Middle) -> Core Warlock (Middle) -> CoreWindranger (Lane) -> Core Major changes, generally turning a spare mid/safe guide into a support Arc Warden (Lane) -> Support Bounty Hunter -> Roam Kunkka (Lane) -> Support Leshrac (Lane) -> Support Lina (Lane) -> SupportLegion Commander (Middle) -> Jungle Naga Siren (Lane) -> Support Silencer (Lane) -> SupportWindranger (Middle) -> Support Delete: redundant guides from mid/safe merge with no other use (check pairs and delete the one with least subscribers) Bloodseeker (Middle) Brewmaster (Lane) Dragon Knight (Lane) Ember Spirit (Middle) Slark (Middle) Sniper (Middle) Tiny (Lane) Troll Warlord (Middle) Weaver (Middle)Probably delete: guides that could either be repurposed or ditched, plus some egregiously outdated builds Alchemist (Lane) -> Support?Ancient Apparition (Middle) Beastmaster (Middle) -> Support?Earth Spirit (Middle) -> Core? Gyrocopter (Middle) -> Support? Lone Druid (Jungle) Oracle (Middle) Shadow Shaman (Middle)Skywrath Mage (Middle) New guides Enchantress Offlane Invoker Core QE Mirana Support/RoamVenge Core Zeus SupportPossible guides Bounty Hunter Offlane Void Core Morph Offlane Pudge Core Pugna Support Veno CoreSpirit Breaker Offlane Tusk CoreWraith King Support It might be worth labelling a few very specific heroes as "roam", like techies, pudge, spiritbreaker and bounty. It would get us around having to create their parallel guides. My instinct is that a lot of 2k players would avoid subscribing to a pudge guide that explicitly labels them a support, but would be comfortable with roam. BELISARIUS: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/the-tavern/453377-in-game-standard-hero-builds-120-million-subscriptions?page=282#5636 The last list is really the only one that's relevant. They should all be similar but I was only updating the last one in response to discussion. EDIT; right | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On February 23 2016 09:29 Belisarius wrote: I agree offlane/support Phoenix is a small difference. If the guide didn't already exist I wouldn't be clamouring to add it, but since this change should net us 5-10 more guides' headroom, we may as well keep it for now. If we run out of space in a couple patches we can put support phx, support wr, etc under the axe then. Ench is a bit different because there's a more clearcut distinction. In my opinion jungle enchantress should basically be a support, with higher ranks of enchant/sprites and more focus on ganking/pushing with urn/force into later aghs unless she's stomping. Lane ench is free to build midas/straight DPS because she hopefully has two real supports shoring the team up. That said, I'm not convinced offlane ench is more than a 1-patch fad, so I wouldn't be opposed to waiting to see if it sticks around. That's the whole point of a core guide, though. Any hero who can be run both mid and safelane gets tabs saying "earlygame - mid" and "earlygame - lane" or whatever, with bottle and any variation in starting items covered there. There are some heroes whose optimal skillbuild would change between safelane and mid, and it's true that we can't represent that, but I've yet to think of an example where that would be catastrophic. Suboptimal skillbuilds are nothing new for these guides. EDIT: oh, you mean people taking it as license to do mid antimage or whatever? Yeah maybe. Idk at some point nature is always gonna design a better idiot. I agree on the intention of Core, but you need to be careful that the hero build can actually fit two tabs of "early-game". It would be Starting Items + Early-Game for two different lanes. The band-aid solution would be to just combined the two and assume they are bought in sequential order. but that is still four rows of two tabs and it may mean reducing extension/luxury items if necessary (if at all possible). | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
The major difference is, as you say, starting items: usually null+faeries for mid and regen+stout/RoP/whatever for sidelanes. That does require an extra tab. In most cases I don't think the earlygame items would actually change much. Sometimes a mid hero hero might skip basi/RoA if it has bottle, and safelane will lean towards sideshop-oriented stuff like PMS/quelling, but at the end of the day you won't lose a game from from buying RoA+bottle in mid or courier-ing yourself quelling. The only thing that's really bad is buying bottle in a sidelane. For that, I think you could get away with only putting it in earlygame on heroes who are almost always mid (eg. puck), and making it situational the rest of the time. I don't know how often you think people read the descriptions, but these issues would be very easy to sorted out with notes as well. If you have to, yes, you can pay two extra tabs for starting/earlygame for mid/lane, but I'm not sure that's needed in all cases. If you do run out of tabs I have always said extension and luxury have a lot of overlap. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On February 23 2016 11:20 Belisarius wrote: The last list is really the only one that's relevant, Torte. They should all be reasonably similar but I only updated the final one in response to discussion etc. I can't help but notice you're quoting me but not actually saying anything, or changing the categories in your to-do list despite them being totally different to what I'm suggesting. I'm tabulating them for future reference and context. I'm not ready to really hash it all out just yet. I was intending to really break things down from my perspective come after Shanghai. I would like to know what the reddit community thinks and write it all out via a blog weighing the positive with the negative (if any) and consider more perspectives. I'm also seeing what kind of drop in numbers the project would suffer from (as petty or vain as it may seem, it is a strong point of my pride in this project, even a justification when it gets really sloggish/demanding). It's looking to be maybe 4-5 million or 1 month of growth. | ||
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Torte de Lini
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On February 23 2016 11:32 Belisarius wrote: What are the actual hard limits? How many tabs are you allowed, total? And how many items? Is there an item-per-tab cap? The major difference is, as you say, starting items: usually null+faeries for mid and regen+stout/RoP/whatever for sidelanes. That does require an extra tab. In most cases I don't think the earlygame items would actually change much. Sometimes a mid hero hero might skip basi/RoA if it has bottle, and safelane will lean towards sideshop-oriented stuff like PMS/quelling, but at the end of the day you won't lose a game from from buying RoA+bottle in mid or courier-ing yourself quelling. The only thing that's really bad is buying bottle in a sidelane. For that, I think you could get away with only putting it in earlygame on heroes who are almost always mid (eg. puck), and making it situational the rest of the time. I don't know how often you think people read the descriptions, but these issues would be very easy to sorted out with notes as well. If you have to, yes, you can pay two extra tabs for starting/earlygame for mid/lane, but I'm not sure that's needed in all cases. If you do run out of tabs I have always said extension and luxury have a lot of overlap. No hard limit, the guide just gets cut-off in-game. I've never tested it myself, but I believe Abaddon is as close to a limit as possible. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ujw3J06.png) that could probably fit one more tab or another row of items (a new row is created every 4th item, so 3 per row). also for some heroes like Lina, they have different starting skills (Q for Mid/W for Lane -> E is gotten later for Lina (Lane) over Mid). Initially, I didn't think anyone read the descriptions, but that's changed a lot. I think abilities are ready and items are read a lot less. Difficult to obviously gauge. To estimate: 8 tabs (2 info empty tabs) 11 Item rows presumably. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vOiael0.png) http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=576975639 Here's a full page. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
also i'd consider putting a midas in veno's situational but... idk maybe not... i personally always get midas because i feel like it makes my 16 and aghs time together better and it makes getting the blink/shadowblade/octarine/veil whatever after the aghs easier.. but you could get your aghs at a crucial timing if you skip the midas? dunn | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
having 2 bottles on a team is nice; but of course whether the 2nd bottle carrier is the offlaner or safelaner (or both if not mid) has to be decided on a per-game basis | ||
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Added Healing Salve to Starting Items Added Iron Talon to Early Game Added Magic Wand to Core Items Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Moved Power Treads to Early Game Moved Bottle to Situational Items Moved Sange and Yasha to Extension Items Removed Iron Branch x2 Removed Abyssal Blade Removed Quelling Blade Legion Commander (Middle) Removed Iron Branch x3 Added Iron Talon to Early Game Added Magic Wand to Core Items Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Moved Power Treads to Early Game Moved Bottle to Situational Items Moved Sange and Yasha to Extension Items Removed Iron Branch x2 Removed Abyssal Blade Removed Quelling Blade Drow Ranger Added Shadow Blade to Situational Items Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items Removed Silver Edge Removed Mask of Madness EnchantressNew Skill Build: W E Q Q Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Untouchable 2. Nature's Attendants 3. Enchant) Added Moon Shard to Extension Items Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Removed Hand of Midas Removed Shiva's Guard MagnusNew Skill Build: Q E Q E Q R Q W W W R W E E R (1. Shockwave 2. Empower 3. Skewer) Added Linken's Sphere to Situational Items Moved Guardian Greaves to Extension Items Crystal Maiden Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Removed Scythe of Vyse Alchemist (Middle)New Skill Build: E Q Q E Q R W Q E E R W W W R (1. Acid Spray 2. Greevil's Greed 3. Unstable Concoction) Added Mjolnnir to Extension Items Moved Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items Moved Monkey King Bar to Luxury Items Removed Boots of Travel - Level 2 Alchemist (Lane)New Skill Build: E Q W Q W R Q Q W W R E E E R (1. Acid Spray 2. Unstable Concoction 3. Greevil's Greed) Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items Added Silver Edge to Situational Items Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items Moved Solar Crest to Extension Items Moved Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items Moved Monkey King Bar to Luxury Items Removed Magic Wand Removed Boots of Travel - Level 2 JuggernautNew Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Blade Fury 2. Healing Ward 3. Blade Dance) Keeper of the Light New Skill Build: W E E Q E Q Q Q R W WW E R R (1. Illuminate 2. Mana Leak 3. Chakra Magic) VenomancerAdded Tranquil Boots to Core Items Moved Force Staff to Extension Items Moved Blink Dagger to Extension Items Removed Arcane Boots Bounty Hunter Removed Pipe of Insight Removed Solar Crest Ember Spirit (Lane) Ember Spirit (Middle) Moved Manta Style to Situational Items Moved Eye of Skadi to Extension Items Oracle (Lane) Oracle (Middle) Created New Tab: "Utility Items" Added Flying Courier to "Utility Items" Added Observer Ward to "Utility Items" Added Sentry Ward to "Utility Items" Added Gem of True Sight to "Utility Items" Added Smoke of Deceit to "Utility Items" Moved Aether Lens to Core Items Moved Guardian Greaves to Extension Items Removed Mekansm Warlock (Middle)Added Glimmer Cape to Extension Items Removed Scythe of Vyse Warlock (Lane)New Skill Build: E W W E E R E W W Q R Q Q Q R (1. Upheaval 2. Shadow Word 3. Fatal Bonds) Added Glimmer Cape to Extension Items Removed Scythe of Vyse Outworld Devourer Added Tango to Starting Items Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Removed Faerie Fire x2 LichAdded Aether Lens to Extension Items Removed Scythe of Vyse To-Do 1. Update Contributor's List 2. Revise Build Categories (tentative thoughts: Middle, Jungle, Safe[lane], Off[lane], Support) 3. done 4. done 5. done | ||
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Was hoping for something like drums/Atos to Blink to BKB, but I don't think that's ideal. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Blink isn't usually rushed afaik. | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
On February 25 2016 07:24 Sn0_Man wrote: Drums first is definitely the item i've been seeing on streams and in pubs. Blink isn't usually rushed afaik. Blink replaced Force Staff which was: BKB -> Force I swapped it out for the W + Blink Combo. Drums -> Blink -> BKB sounds good to me, but I am not seeing consistent results/usability in pubs to gauge its mainstay placement. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Blink gives no stats so it depends a bit more when you buy it. | ||
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