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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 28 2016 02:52 HackDice wrote: Are there any plans for a Core Venge build in the future? Seems like it's growing heavily in popularity, especially in professional Dota. Its on my watchlist with the following:  radiance into linkens utilityutility core | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 28 2016 02:44 TheYango wrote: If you're going straight Radiance, RoA+Urn+Talon is fine. You get a lot of small items but since your next 2 items are so big (Radi+Heart/Manta/Skadi/etc.), you still hold them for an incredibly long time and get value off of them before you have to sell them. It's only when you start considering mid-tier items like Drum/Vanguard do those choices get hairy. RoA PMS Iron Talon Magic Wand Urn of Shadows TP Pretty tight, yeah. Also a lot of racked up expenses. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
The main point is that she needs some small items to boost her onto the radiance. What exactly those minor items are is secondary; the main thing is that she doesn't go brown boots radi and she absolutely doesn't do the whole drums into abortive radiance into 25min diffusal business that you see so often in pubs. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I am also 50/50 on Iron Talon. It's not necessary. | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
On January 28 2016 07:25 Torte de Lini wrote: I don't think RoA is needed if we have PMS + Urn of Shadows. I am also 50/50 on Iron Talon. It's not necessary. You get Iron Talon when your lane sucks rly rly bad, which is somewhat often with Spectre. That way you can at least farm a couple camps in the jungle while your supp leeches EXP or something. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
 Tiny (Lane) Tiny (Middle)Added Shadow Blade to Situational Items Removed Blade Mail Ogre Magi Added Orb of Venom to Core Items  Ursa (Lane)Created New Tab: "Early Game" Added Stout Shield to Starting Items Added Quelling Blade to Starting Items Moved Iron Talon to "Early Game" Moved Morbid Mask to "Early Game" Night Stalker New Skill Build: Q E Q E Q W Q R E E R W W R (1. Void 2. Hunter in the Night 3. Crippling Fear) Created New Tab: "Early Game" Added Tango to Starting Items Added Stout Shield to Starting Items Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game" Added Phase Boots to Core Items Added Orb of Venom to Situational Items Added Pipe of Insight to Situational Items Added Solar Crest to Situational Items Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items Moved Bottle to "Early Game" Moved Urn of Shadows to "Early Game" Moved Heaven's Halberd to Extension Items Removed Tangos Removed Faerie Fire Removed Enchanted Mango Removed Power Treads Removed Heart of Tarrasque Removed Abyssal Blade Removed Armlet of Mordiggan Removed Moon Shard SpectreNew Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E R (1. Spectral Dagger 2. Desolate 3. Dispersion Added Urn of Shadows to Core Items Added Iron Talon to Situational Items Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Moved Quelling Blade to Early Game Removed Ring of Aquila Nature's Prophet Added Phase Boots to Early Game Added Magic Wand to Core - Pusher Added Drums of Endurance to Core - Pusher Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Moved Daedalus to Luxury Items Removed Power Treads Removed Necromonicon - Level 3 Removed Octarine Core Removed Moon Shard Keeper of the Light New Skill Build: E Q E Q E W E R W W W Q Q R R (1. Chakra Magic 2. Illuminate 3. Mana Leak) Treant Protector New Skill Build: E W E W E R E Q Q Q R Q W W R (1. Living Armor 2. Nature's Guise 3. Leech Seed) Added Iron Talon to Situational Items Added Refresher Items to Extension Items Moved Guardian Greaves to Core Items Moved Urn of Shadows to Situational Items Moved Blink Dagger to Situational Items  PudgeMoved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items  MedusaAdded Criclet of Nobility to Starting Items Added Wraith Band to Early Game Added Phase Boots to Early Game Removed Ring of Protection Removed Ring of Basilius Removed Power Treads Removed Satanic Removed Daedalus Lifestealer (Jungle)Added Orb of Venom to "Early Game Added Linken's Sphere to Situational Items Moved Drums of Endurance to Core Items Lifestealer (Lane)Created New Tab: "Early Game" Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game" Added Quelling Blade to "Early Game" Added Orb of Venom to "Early Game Added Linken's Sphere to Situational Items Moved Drums of Endurance to Core Items Legion Commander (Lane) Legion Commander (Middle) Removed Daedalus Faceless Void Added Faerie Fire x2 to Starting Items Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items Moved Manta Style to Luxury Items Removed Healing Salve | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Publishing Changes | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
Also, I think that lane Ursa will not need an iron talon. I wanna say that they will never need one but I'm sure there's some obscure scenario out there where it's valuable. QB to cut down some trees is more than enough unless I'm missing something. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On January 28 2016 23:40 BluemoonSC wrote: What's up with the jungle naix picking up an oov? Also, I think that lane Ursa will not need an iron talon. I wanna say that they will never need one but I'm sure there's some obscure scenario out there where it's valuable. QB to cut down some trees is more than enough unless I'm missing something. If you're intending on clearing jungle stacks isn't Iron Talon always worth it if you want a QB, but not a Battlefury? I thought it only took like 3-5 minutes to pay for itself which is usually way less time than you intend to be clearing jungle camps and way less time than you intend to hold on to the Qb/Talon. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
On January 29 2016 00:23 Logo wrote: If you're intending on clearing jungle stacks isn't Iron Talon always worth it if you want a QB, but not a Battlefury? I thought it only took like 3-5 minutes to pay for itself which is usually way less time than you intend to be clearing jungle camps and way less time than you intend to hold on to the Qb/Talon. It's not always worth it. On a hero like Ursa where you have certain early timings that are really important, spending that extra gold is going to delay things like rosh which will get harder as time goes on. | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
Ursa with max Fury Swipes might be an exception, though, since the last 40% of a creep's HP goes away faster than the first 60%. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
On January 29 2016 01:26 Buckyman wrote: In general, the payoff period for Iron Talon over Quelling Blade is about 13 jungle camps. So assuming only limited gold from non-jungle sources, it should have broken even before upgraded boots + morbid mask. Ursa with max Fury Swipes might be an exception, though, since the last 40% of a creep's HP goes away faster than the first 60%. I think the concept of breaking even on an investment like iron talon is weird. I feel that the time spent without a different item is just as important to consider when you think about income. It's why you see a lot of AMs go straight brown boots roh battlefury. Or nagas/specs that go brown boots relic. They don't realize that while it would be nice to save all that money you would have spent on upgraded boots or an roa or the like to make that big item...the little shit helps you get there quicker and safer. They don't see the bigger picture and how their decisions impact the game 5 min from now. Back to Ursa iron talon - sure youll make your money back, but the time you spent making it and earning the money back to buy your morbid mask is enough to delay your solo rosh opportunity past the 8 min mark where it becomes much more difficult. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On January 29 2016 05:42 BluemoonSC wrote: I think the concept of breaking even on an investment like iron talon is weird. I feel that the time spent without a different item is just as important to consider when you think about income. It's why you see a lot of AMs go straight brown boots roh battlefury. Or nagas/specs that go brown boots relic. They don't realize that while it would be nice to save all that money you would have spent on upgraded boots or an roa or the like to make that big item...the little shit helps you get there quicker and safer. They don't see the bigger picture and how their decisions impact the game 5 min from now. Back to Ursa iron talon - sure youll make your money back, but the time you spent making it and earning the money back to buy your morbid mask is enough to delay your solo rosh opportunity past the 8 min mark where it becomes much more difficult. How much of all this is guide safe? I'd imagine most people, even guide users, are going try to early rosh with Ursa, but is a sub-8 Roshan something we'd expect people following the guides to be able to do consistently? | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
stout + morbid mask is all you need to do it at lvl 4 iirc..but if you wait until 6 it goes faster bc both timings hit after the first rosh upgrade at 4 min. at any rate, even if they don't do rosh and it doesn't make it into the guide, the time spent without something else on lane ursa doesn't make much sense when they hero is already a proficient jungler. | ||
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