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On January 12 2016 14:05 Birdie wrote:
Based on how everyone is playing Void, yasha makes pretty much no sense, and all the damage items aren't really any use now. He's an offlane hero almost exclusively in the pro scene, with the build being consistently PMS/Wand/Iron Talon/Treads into Vlads, Agha, Blink. Sometimes delaying full Vlads till agha is complete and just getting morbid till then.
There are very few games where void gets items past those but when he does, BKB, Refresher, and BoTs seem to be the items, with BKB generally prioritized first.
This basically means throwing out most of your current build though, and pubs will be confused because "void no farm item no dmg wat?????? noob guide" and it will take 5 years before they figure out that void isn't a carry anymore.
Void is still carry, nothing has changed in terms of voids damage output. The thing is he is now, how would i put it, tanky in more reliable way and has some more utility with the Time Dilation. Being more tanky and having reliable way to survive in the offlane makes him more appealing for people to play him in the offlane rather than safelane. Obviously his way to initiate has changed quite a bit, which makes people think they have to get blink dagger to be able to do same things as old FV.
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United States47024 Posts
A 550 range non-instant movement skill is quite simply inadequate for "initiating". There's no two ways about it.
You could argue that the hero just SHOULDN'T commit 2.2k gold and item slot for being able to initiate and that's fair (though many people will disagree). But to argue that he's capable of doing it competently without that investment isn't really correct.
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I just think its wrong way of thinking to still play void as "i go in, ulti, kill people, and run away as fast as possible when ulti ends".
I'm not saying u can do that with the new void without blink, im saying thats not the way i want to see void being played no matter if its offlane or safelane void.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 12 2016 21:51 Velzi wrote:
I just think its wrong way of thinking to still play void as "i go in, ulti, kill people, and run away as fast as possible when ulti ends".
I'm not saying u can do that with the new void without blink, im saying thats not the way i want to see void being played no matter if its offlane or safelane void.
That's not how you initiated with old Void and that's not why the new Void is ineffective without a Blink.
Without the vision advantage of a skill that travels further than Smoke/night vision, you have a hard time using Chronospheres that actually hit multiple people. Your subsequent fighting pattern does not make multi-target Chronospheres any less desirable, and the friendly-fire nature of the skill makes it heavily preferable for it to be used at the start of the fight.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On January 12 2016 21:51 Velzi wrote:
I just think its wrong way of thinking to still play void as "i go in, ulti, kill people, and run away as fast as possible when ulti ends".
I'm not saying u can do that with the new void without blink, im saying thats not the way i want to see void being played no matter if its offlane or safelane void.
I think this is something that is out of your control bc icefrog reworked the hero. It's my personal opinion that safelane void is a waste of a farming role, but no matter which side of that argument you are on, the range of time walk is incredibly poor to use as an initiation.
The power that void had during night time to surprise you by time walking in from out of your vision was what made time walk a good initiation, like yango has pointed out. He also brings up a good point about the friendly fire aspect of the spell.
I want to also add, that, especially if you're going for the carry void, and youre maxing time lock if anyone is NOT caught in the chrono you're probably going to die bc they will dump everything on you. This is trueeven if youre maxing your time lock 2nd in favor of the 4s time walk cd at rank 4, but VERY important if you're going to max time lock first (which is a horrible idea given how good time walk is)
You also need to remember that the hero was "balanced" around back track (lol) so he's not going to have a ton of hp to work with. A 25% chance to avoid a huge damage nuke and live to kill someone else OUTSIDE of chrono is a huge deal and you don't have that anymore. Instead you need to time walk, so you do NOT want to have to use that to initiate if at all possible so that if you get critically injured 1/2 way through its duration, you can finish the fight bc you just shrugged off the dmg.
This is especially important in pubs where a disorganized group of players dumps all their shit on you and you laugh bc you can erase that dmg and their spells won't come off cd until after chrono is over.
On January 12 2016 20:16 TheYango wrote:
A 550 range non-instant movement skill is quite simply inadequate for "initiating". There's no two ways about it.
You could argue that the hero just SHOULDN'T commit 2.2k gold and item slot for being able to initiate and that's fair (though many people will disagree). But to argue that he's capable of doing it competently without that investment isn't really correct.
i think in a safe lane role, you probably shouldn't commit 2.2k gold and an item slot to be able to close the gap. which is part of why i think he's a better offlaner than he is a safe laner.
and in the circumstances where you absolutely have to bc of the draft, you probably should have picked a different lineup to match up against the enemy team's heroes.
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Faceless Void
New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Time Walk 2. Time Lock 3. Time Dilation)
Added Vladmir's Offering to Core Items
Added Yasha to Core Items
Added Butterfly To Luxury Items
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Moved Sange and Yasha to Situational Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Refresher Orb to Luxury Items
Removed Mask of Madness
Removed Daedalus
Outworld Devourer
New Skill Build: W E Q E E Q E Q R Q R W W W R (1. Essence Aura 2. Arcane Orb 3. Astral Imprisonment)
Drow Ranger
New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Frost Arrows 2. Precision Aura 3. Gust)
Added Iron Branch to Starting Items
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
 Rubick
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
 Dazzle
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
 Disruptor
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Aether Lens to Extension Items
Moved Veil of Discord to Situational Items
Moved Glimmer Cape to Extension Items
Removed Scythe of Vyse
 Chen
Removed Iron Branch
Oracle (Lane)
Oracle (Middle)
Moved Solar Crest to Situational Items
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Extension Items
Moved Glimmer Cape to Extension Items
 Shadow Demon
Added Guardian Greaves to Situational Items
Removed Mekansm
 Bane
Added Guardian Greaves to Situational Items
Removed Mekansm
 Dark Seer
Added Iron Branch 2x to Starting Items
Moved Aether Lens to Situational Items
Moved Blink Dagger to Extension Items
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Faceless Void - Iron Talon situational?
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dazzle should have euls as a situational imo
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It's a minor thing, but I think after the most recent MKB changes, Gyro(Lane) should have Butterfly as the first extension item instead.
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On January 13 2016 13:06 Buckyman wrote:
It's a minor thing, but I think after the most recent MKB changes, Gyro(Lane) should have Butterfly as the first extension item instead.
its ordered by cost
On January 13 2016 11:30 Buckyman wrote:
Faceless Void - Iron Talon situational?
Any point if you get Vlads?
On January 13 2016 12:12 trifecta wrote:
dazzle should have euls as a situational imo
Would need to replace another item for Situational unless there's a unique usefulness for Eul's with Dazzle
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On January 13 2016 13:48 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2016 13:06 Buckyman wrote:
It's a minor thing, but I think after the most recent MKB changes, Gyro(Lane) should have Butterfly as the first extension item instead. its ordered by cost Show nested quote +On January 13 2016 11:30 Buckyman wrote:
Faceless Void - Iron Talon situational? Any point if you get Vlads? Show nested quote +On January 13 2016 12:12 trifecta wrote:
dazzle should have euls as a situational imo Would need to replace another item for Situational unless there's a unique usefulness for Eul's with Dazzle
iron talon on FV lets you kill the large offlane camp since you have high base damage and pretty decent armor
it lets you keep up in levels even if you get zoned out of the offlane and even if you don't its a good bonus
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There's a fairly wide timing window where Iron Talon gives him almost as much GPM+XPM as a Midas would, if he's clearing jungle camps full time. Obviously he's not going to be 100% jungling, but it doesn't cost anywhere near what a Midas does.
Iron talon promotes a pre-aghs playstyle where Void uses Chronosphere for quick pickoffs and spends most of the rest of the time off-map, even farming the enemy woods sometimes.
Of course, this is the 2k MMR perspective.
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On January 13 2016 17:06 Buckyman wrote:
There's a fairly wide timing window where Iron Talon gives him almost as much GPM+XPM as a Midas would, if he's clearing jungle camps full time. Obviously he's not going to be 100% jungling, but it doesn't cost anywhere near what a Midas does.
Iron talon promotes a pre-aghs playstyle where Void uses Chronosphere for quick pickoffs and spends most of the rest of the time off-map, even farming the enemy woods sometimes.
Of course, this is the 2k MMR perspective.
On January 13 2016 14:44 tehh4ck3r wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2016 13:48 Torte de Lini wrote:On January 13 2016 13:06 Buckyman wrote:
It's a minor thing, but I think after the most recent MKB changes, Gyro(Lane) should have Butterfly as the first extension item instead. its ordered by cost On January 13 2016 11:30 Buckyman wrote:
Faceless Void - Iron Talon situational? Any point if you get Vlads? On January 13 2016 12:12 trifecta wrote:
dazzle should have euls as a situational imo Would need to replace another item for Situational unless there's a unique usefulness for Eul's with Dazzle iron talon on FV lets you kill the large offlane camp since you have high base damage and pretty decent armor it lets you keep up in levels even if you get zoned out of the offlane and even if you don't its a good bonus
Isn't there a fear of hitting 6-slots early on and not making use of Iron Talon?
PMS
TREADS
WAND
VLADS
YASHA/IRON TALON
TP
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On January 13 2016 18:36 Torte de Lini wrote:
Isn't there a fear of hitting 6-slots early on and not making use of Iron Talon?
PMS
TREADS
WAND
VLADS
YASHA/IRON TALON
TP
Hence being Situational - it replaces one of the other small early game items.
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Fair enough, I'll add it tonight
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HdNxEY9.png)
