In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 256

On December 25 2015 12:56 Birdie wrote:
When people know what the spells do they won't walk into a spark wraith intentionally most of the time, so they're more effective as a zoning mechanism which allows you to control the lane. On the other hand, Flux does damage like this: 90->180->270->360. So with both spells at level 2, spark wraith does more damage than flux, but at level 3 and 4, flux does more damage than spark wraith. Add to that the increased range and once you have maxed flux you can initiate and do a fairly reliable 560 damage from one wraith and one flux, plus any autoattacks you get off.

You don't usually need magnetic field unless you hold a point for ganks or something.

Starting items are pretty simple, most attack damage you can get for your gold short of getting a slippers which you won't build into anything and which gives no hp/mana. Bottle is because you are mid and can abuse rune control easily, brown boots because you're rly slow and susceptible to ganks early, midas I'm sure you all know, and ring of aquila because A) you're a split-pushing hero and the aura is very good for pushing, and B) It's the single most cost effective agility item in the game, and it got a buff in 6.86 too making it even better.

@Torte I have watched a few of that guy's replays when I was studying how to play the hero mid, he plays it pretty interestingly with the diffusal blades but I haven't tried diffusals yet. It makes a lot of sense though because with 0 cooldown and essentially infinite charges on your double, you can just slow the entire team almost instantly. Add to that that it gives int and agility in very cost efficient amounts and it's a really good item for the hero, I think. I will have to try it.

On December 25 2015 12:47 TheYango wrote:
Wraith isn't that good when you're always in a lane and don't get a chance to hide somewhere and stack a bunch of them.

I don't think mid is actually the right way to play him at all precisely for that reason (only support Warden gets to hide, stack Wraiths and then kill someone with the Wraith stack), but if you're going mid, Wraith isn't that good.

Sadly, I feel now that support Warden isn't going to be practical at a guide level, because like Techies, it takes some sensible understanding of how people move around the map and where to punish people with stacks of Mines/Wraiths. Like Techies, a bad support Warden is going to be totally useless because the skill is completely awful when used poorly.

I'm sure when Techies was getting picked all the time everyone had the experience of the totally worthless Techies who just used mines in random places that didn't actually help anyone accomplish anything. This is the same thing except worse because unlike Techies Mines, Wraiths actually time out so someone actually has to pass your stack in the next 50s. The payoff is better when you do it right (largely since Arc Warden is harder to keep tabs on with Wraith's absurd cast range), but is even more useless when someone's bad at it.

On December 25 2015 16:21 TheYango wrote:
You slow down your farm to take advantage of how much more powerful his skills are when he's not in a lane. Flux and Spark Wraith are not powerful skills in lane unless opponents play poorly against them, but they ARE powerful skills at controlling the rest of the map because the river and jungle don't have allied units to deactivate Flux with, and vision is much more limited, allowing Spark Wraith nests to net kills as enemy heroes try to move around the map.

On December 25 2015 16:07 Torte de Lini wrote:
I don't think I understand what support Arc Warden is given the build we've set for him item-wise is late-game carrying, no?

On December 26 2015 08:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
My other of maxing Spark Wraith for Lane is that I feel users will punch out their entire mana early on trying to stack it and have nothing throughout the game since we're running only RoA.

On December 26 2015 02:23 TheYango wrote:

They do, but people aren't exactly hugging neutrals when they run around the map.

On December 26 2015 13:05 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Happy holidays, you've done one helluva job.

On December 26 2015 20:16 Belisarius wrote:
I really don't understand why we have a mid arc warden guide but only one voker guide.

I do realise you have mentioned cutting outdated guides, but it seems really inconsistent to say you have too many guides to handle while simultaneously plopping down lane and mid guides for every new hero. Especially when most of those heroes have no business going mid at all.

If you are going to stick with a mid AW, I agree drums shouldn't be on there. I'd also lean towards maxing flux, but really none of his spells are that useful from mid. That is just one of many reasons he shouldn't be there in the first place.

RE: WR from last page, ahswtini is correct. If your lane WR is a core WR then the build is the same. If it is a support WR the build is very different. This wouldn't be an issue if we switched to core designations rather than lane designations.



I feel that aether and veil are being added haphazardly to a bunch of heroes that don't really need them. I realise that icefrog has buffed veil so many times that it will cross the Leshrac horizon eventually, but I think this remains to be seen. It certainly shouldn't be core on support earth spirit, for example.

Aether is similar. I'm not too comfortable with it being any more than situational/extension, except on very specific heroes where its value is self-evident, like sand king. Even then I would probably argue for extension.

On December 26 2015 15:51 Birdie wrote:
@Ember Spirit middle build, I don't think you should get two branches if you are getting PMS. 100 gold is pretty significant for a weak lvl 1 hero like Ember when he's trying to get his bottle. If he gets rune and only has PMS and shared tangos then he's got 250 gold and can have a good chance to get his bottle after a few waves, but branches don't help him in the way he needs help at the start.

Skadi should be in Luxury items, and potentially blink in Situational (however I vaguely recall discussion about blink being that if you need a guide then you don't know how to use blink, which is fair enough).

@Arc warden middle why is Mjollnir removed? I still think build should be Flux > Wraith > Evasion. Starting items should be wraith band, branch, faerie fire like pretty much any other ranged agi mid hero. Drums shouldn't be in the build at all I don't think, you make so much money that you don't rly need intermediate items like that which are only mildly beneficial.

On December 27 2015 08:08 Birdie wrote:
If you put the Mjollnir actives on your melee necros and run them ahead of the wave they kill the entire wave instantly. I'd agree that AC is more team-oriented but for split-pushing Mjollnir is much better.

On December 26 2015 15:14 TheYango wrote:

Sorry, I don't think I was clear. I agree with you on the skill order. My discussion of being able to hide and put Wraith traps to punish careless map movement was in response to Torte asking what support Warden accomplishes. It's not just that Warden doesn't need lane farm, it's that his 2 core early game skills are just generally more useful when you get to move around the map freely rather than farming a lane.