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SoCal8910 Posts
IMO faerie fire is going to be like mango..useless until IF finds a good price/value ratio.
you can definitely pick it up on invoker (quas regen is more than sufficient when you're not last hitting w/ exort), or maybe SF to get those first couple last hits without razing but idk..it feels bad if you have to use it early bc your dmg is gone.
BUT 2 branches and tangoes (2 dmg, 460hp regen) VS 3 faerie fires (6 dmg, 225hp regen) is priced equally.
for a bottle rush build like the current sf, it might not be too terrible. by the time you get your bottle theres probably no chance you had to use all 3 of them and you've probably made it to lvl 2 and are earning souls.
dunno. i think there are too many variables and if you're the kind of player that knows that its good for bottle rushing mid AND you're confident that you can adjust accordingly, i doubt you'd be reading a guide.
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Blue is right that faire fire isn’t for anyone reading a guide. The item has a lot of potential for high skill players were an instant 75 HP can make the difference between a kill or a death and 2 damage matters. But tangos are the way to go for anyone using a guide for a hero. That item is a total non-factor in my trench world.
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Faceless Void
Added Vladmir's Offering to Core Items
Added Butterfly To Extension Items
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Moved Sange and Yasha to Extension Items
Moved Refresher Orb to Luxury Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Luxury Items
Removed Mask of Madness
Removed Daedalus
Outworld Devourer
New Skill Build: W E Q E E W W E R Q R Q Q W R (1. Essence Aura 2. Arcane Orb 3. Astral Imprisonment)
To-Do:
Reduce the following lists:
Faerie Fire applicability?
+ Show Spoiler [Consider Heroes] + (Lane/Jungle)   (Middle)  (Lane/Middle)  (Jungle) (Lane/Middle) (Lane/Middle)   (Lane/Middle) (Lane) (Lane)       (Lane/Middle)  (Lane) (Lane/Middle) (Lane/Middle)
Side-Shop Bottle?
+ Show Spoiler [Consider Heroes] + (Lane) (Lane) (Lane) (Lane, remove Soul Ring/Tranqs?) (Lane)  (Lane) (Lane)  (Lane)  (Lane)  (Lane)  (Lane) (Lane)    (Lane) (Lane) (Lane) (Lane)  (Lane)  (Lane)  (Lane)  (Lane) (Lane)
I'll be back tonight and read the messages
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why is butterfly extension on void instead of aghs (or even refresher)
new void just wants to fight all the time and aghs is more productive towards that
plus it's unlikely that you will get the space to farm a 6k gold item as offlane void esp. cuz you farm so slow without MoM/mjollnir/etc.
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Yeah I'm not sure about that void guide. I mean nobody has any idea what to do with void in general, but whatever people work out will not involve vlads.
I think blink aghs is better than blink bkb. If you're going blink you're committed to being a teamfight initiator rather than a carry, so you may as well do it on a 60s cd. You do 0 damage with that build whether you're spell immune or not.
Mael/mjoll are still worth mentioning. Void's actual rightclick behavior hasn't changed; he still scales with AS and still has a hard time farming without some combination of midas/mom/mael/bfury. The question is whether he's worth giving that farm to in the first place without backtrack.
You definitely want points in W earlier than 10. It absolutely wrecks low level fights and can even get you kills in lane.
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On December 31 2015 06:56 Belisarius wrote:
Yeah I'm not sure about that void guide. I mean nobody has any idea what to do with void in general, but whatever people work out will not involve vlads.
I think blink aghs is better than blink bkb. If you're going blink you're committed to being a teamfight initiator rather than a carry, so you may as well do it on a 60s cd. You do 0 damage with that build whether you're spell immune or not.
Mael/mjoll are still worth mentioning. Void's actual rightclick behavior hasn't changed; he still scales with AS and still has a hard time farming without some combination of midas/mom/mael/bfury. The question is whether he's worth giving that farm to in the first place without backtrack.
You definitely want points in W earlier than 10. It absolutely wrecks low level fights and can even get you kills in lane.
blink vlads is the build that iceiceice has been doing on offlane void
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Void Aquila Treads Vanguard Radiance Manta Skadi.
Just check waga play it once and u see why.
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On December 31 2015 07:27 tehh4ck3r wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 06:56 Belisarius wrote:
Yeah I'm not sure about that void guide. I mean nobody has any idea what to do with void in general, but whatever people work out will not involve vlads.
I think blink aghs is better than blink bkb. If you're going blink you're committed to being a teamfight initiator rather than a carry, so you may as well do it on a 60s cd. You do 0 damage with that build whether you're spell immune or not.
Mael/mjoll are still worth mentioning. Void's actual rightclick behavior hasn't changed; he still scales with AS and still has a hard time farming without some combination of midas/mom/mael/bfury. The question is whether he's worth giving that farm to in the first place without backtrack.
You definitely want points in W earlier than 10. It absolutely wrecks low level fights and can even get you kills in lane. blink vlads is the build that iceiceice has been doing on offlane void
Yes, and in all three of those games his team ran a very specific DK/razor push strat that the vlads aura was used to bolster. Even then he was pretty unconvincing on the hero, imo.
If you want to leave it in then go ahead. It's very early in the cycle and nobody knows what void is really for. I personally don't think encouraging people to rush lifesteal and slowly beat their way through the jungle is a good idea on what seems to be an offlane playmaker.
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United States15275 Posts
On December 31 2015 06:56 Belisarius wrote:
Yeah I'm not sure about that void guide. I mean nobody has any idea what to do with void in general, but whatever people work out will not involve vlads.
I think blink aghs is better than blink bkb. If you're going blink you're committed to being a teamfight initiator rather than a carry, so you may as well do it on a 60s cd. You do 0 damage with that build whether you're spell immune or not.
Mael/mjoll are still worth mentioning. Void's actual rightclick behavior hasn't changed; he still scales with AS and still has a hard time farming without some combination of midas/mom/mael/bfury. The question is whether he's worth giving that farm to in the first place without backtrack.
You definitely want points in W earlier than 10. It absolutely wrecks low level fights and can even get you kills in lane.
I think Vlads is fine on offlane Void. If you're not going a right-click build you still need some method of farming to reach Blink/Aghs, and Vlads is more conductive to the team than MoM. If you rush Blink you still lack the tempo control that another offlaner can offer you, and if you get driven out of the lane while doing so you become near-useless. Safelane Void's item build is still hotly debated atm.
iceiceice's build seems inefficient to me. Aghs before Blink would be the better option.
On December 31 2015 07:39 Velzi wrote:
Void Aquila Treads Vanguard Radiance Manta Skadi.
Just check waga play it once and u see why.
Vanguard/Radiance is a very specific build that gets most of its strength from classic pub mentality. I wouldn't mention it other than situational, especially considering it turns some of Void's even/bad matchups into terrible ones.
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Regarding the Morphling guide: Bottle should probably be dropped due to the heavy nerfs save for Mid Morph, Linkens moved to Core as it will be his main form of mana solution. Maybe should consider E-Blade core with Manta and Skadi moving to extension items. Butterfly possibly to the Luxury or Situational categories depending on matchup (AM for example would be Butter instead of Skadi). This is all the current talk going on in the Morphling Strategy Thread if you'd like to check that out for verification.
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SoCal8910 Posts
im not sure anyone knows the 'proper' way to play void at the moment.
but im sure we'll find out at shanghai.. im not sure what ice frog is thinking with this patch but we'll certainly find out lol
On December 31 2015 10:40 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 06:56 Belisarius wrote:
Yeah I'm not sure about that void guide. I mean nobody has any idea what to do with void in general, but whatever people work out will not involve vlads.
I think blink aghs is better than blink bkb. If you're going blink you're committed to being a teamfight initiator rather than a carry, so you may as well do it on a 60s cd. You do 0 damage with that build whether you're spell immune or not.
Mael/mjoll are still worth mentioning. Void's actual rightclick behavior hasn't changed; he still scales with AS and still has a hard time farming without some combination of midas/mom/mael/bfury. The question is whether he's worth giving that farm to in the first place without backtrack.
You definitely want points in W earlier than 10. It absolutely wrecks low level fights and can even get you kills in lane. I think Vlads is fine on offlane Void. If you're not going a right-click build you still need some method of farming to reach Blink/Aghs, and Vlads is more conductive to the team than MoM. If you rush Blink you still lack the tempo control that another offlaner can offer you, and if you get driven out of the lane while doing so you become near-useless. Safelane Void's item build is still hotly debated atm. iceiceice's build seems inefficient to me. Aghs before Blink would be the better option. Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 07:39 Velzi wrote:
Void Aquila Treads Vanguard Radiance Manta Skadi.
Just check waga play it once and u see why. Vanguard/Radiance is a very specific build that gets most of its strength from classic pub mentality. I wouldn't mention it other than situational, especially considering it turns some of Void's even/bad matchups into terrible ones.
wait, if you rush blink you lack the tempo control? that makes no sense if you're playing offlane void. blink is THE item because your time walk range was nerfed. you literally need it in order to play the offlane void style properly because you're not gonna be able to time walk in and chrono lol.
if thats what ppl are going for, vlads and blink definitely come before agha
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United States15275 Posts
On January 01 2016 02:01 BluemoonSC wrote:
wait, if you rush blink you lack the tempo control? that makes no sense if you're playing offlane void. blink is THE item because your time walk range was nerfed. you literally need it in order to play the offlane void style properly because you're not gonna be able to time walk in and chrono lol.
Congratulations, you have Blink as a first item. You can initiate fights with a 115-CD ultimate and...that's it. You have no way to farm up your next core item. You have no way to pressure a lane by yourself because you have no damage. You rely on bad CC coordination to survive a fight since you have no additional armor or HP. And you have absolutely no utility outside of that. Without the CD of Aghs, he's a paperweight most of the game. And the sheer number of items he needs to equal other offlaners makes him unwieldy.
On January 01 2016 02:01 BluemoonSC wrote:
if thats what ppl are going for, vlads and blink definitely come before agha
Vlads -> Blink is very meh.
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Still think drow should go hotd dragon lance aghs mjolnir
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United States47024 Posts
Honestly, Void's in such a limbo state that you really wouldn't lose much equity by just waiting and seeing what happens to him rather than rushing to try and push a build that will probably end up being wrong anyway.
Like Bluemoon said, no one really knows how to play that hero right now.
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On January 01 2016 06:31 Thetwinmasters wrote:
Still think drow should go hotd dragon lance aghs mjolnir
I actually have not been paying attention to her at all.
That build sounds a bit peculiar. Why not maybe Mask of Madness with Manta? Movement speed in particular
On December 31 2015 15:06 BoZiffer wrote:
Regarding the Morphling guide: Bottle should probably be dropped due to the heavy nerfs save for Mid Morph, Linkens moved to Core as it will be his main form of mana solution. Maybe should consider E-Blade core with Manta and Skadi moving to extension items. Butterfly possibly to the Luxury or Situational categories depending on matchup (AM for example would be Butter instead of Skadi). This is all the current talk going on in the Morphling Strategy Thread if you'd like to check that out for verification.
Wait, what nerfs that no longer require bottle and call for Linken's?
Adaptive Strike base damage increased from 50/60/70/80 to 100
Adaptive Strike mana cost reduced from 100 to 100/90/80/70
Morph rate increased from 2/4/6/10 per second to 2/4/8/16
Morph now shifts in intervals of 1 rather than 2 [?]
Hybrid cooldown reduced from 140 to 120
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United States47024 Posts
He means the nerf to Bottle.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On January 01 2016 06:31 Thetwinmasters wrote:
Still think drow should go hotd dragon lance aghs mjolnir
dragon lance doesn't do anything for drow. nor does mjolnir.
no mobility/escape
no agi
just a small amount of dmg/aspeed and range..and the range isn't worthwhile
the item just isnt appropriate for the hero.
agha is also very situational. if you have someone shoving in your lanes constantly, its nice to have an aoe to assist your farm, but its not an every game item.
your build has no agi, no mobility, and no bkb. if you get jumped on you have no way to reposition or mitigate dmg, so basically you have to hope that the enemy lets you do whatever your want. not great in a pub.
On January 01 2016 04:04 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2016 02:01 BluemoonSC wrote:
wait, if you rush blink you lack the tempo control? that makes no sense if you're playing offlane void. blink is THE item because your time walk range was nerfed. you literally need it in order to play the offlane void style properly because you're not gonna be able to time walk in and chrono lol. Congratulations, you have Blink as a first item. You can initiate fights with a 115-CD ultimate and...that's it. You have no way to farm up your next core item. You have no way to pressure a lane by yourself because you have no damage. You rely on bad CC coordination to survive a fight since you have no additional armor or HP. And you have absolutely no utility outside of that. Without the CD of Aghs, he's a paperweight most of the game. And the sheer number of items he needs to equal other offlaners makes him unwieldy. Show nested quote +On January 01 2016 02:01 BluemoonSC wrote:
if thats what ppl are going for, vlads and blink definitely come before agha Vlads -> Blink is very meh.
lol you're an offlaner dude. in what world are you doing anything OTHER than initiating when your big CD is up?
as an offlane void, your role is to set up your carries with an ultimate, not farm.
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Aghs Maelstrom plays out like a hardcore farming build. It lets her right clicks clear creep waves in 2 seconds flat, and stacks in 4 seconds flat. Meanwhile, enemies grouped up with creeps take extra damage from the lightning bounces, and Frost Arrows can keep several enemies slowed at once. After the Mjollnir upgrade, Drow even puts out respectable right click DPS against grouped-up enemy heroes through Guardian Angel.
Aghs pairs nicely with lifesteal, since that works fully on the bounces. But not so much after Mjollnir, since the magic damage just kills the creeps. I can definitely building it with either Yasha or Dragon Lance - Yasha farms and rats better but the Lance is much better for teamfights - but at my level I need some sort of help with my positioning. And there aren't really slots for both.
tl;dr: Aghs->Mjollnir->Lance is legit but greedy
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/g7lS74M.jpg)
