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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 201

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Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
August 05 2015 15:42 GMT
#4001
On August 06 2015 00:02 ahswtini wrote:
doesnt witch doctor heal not actually scale in level in terms of heal per mana spent?


its proportionate across the levels.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
August 05 2015 18:30 GMT
#4002
If anything, an aghs rush on WD means the 3rd and 4th levels of Restoration are better, since unlike Maledict, the Restoration helps WD channel the ult for longer..
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-05 19:21:38
August 05 2015 19:21 GMT
#4003
On August 06 2015 03:30 Buckyman wrote:
If anything, an aghs rush on WD means the 3rd and 4th levels of Restoration are better, since unlike Maledict, the Restoration helps WD channel the ult for longer..


IMO its the opposite. you're getting extra HP from the aghs and in a situation where you would normally need to pop the heal and cast ulti, its not as necessary bc you're slightly tankier

lvl 4 maledict gives you 320 dmg assuming no dmg or healing is taken. add in the bonus dmg from the dmg taken from death ward and you deal a TON of damage at lvl 11 with agha ulti.

but like i mentioned, one of the most important reasons you want the max maledict before the heal is bc by the time you hit lvl 12 when you get your 2nd pt, bkbs will be out..so its like why bother leveling it bc front liners will all have spell immunity
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
August 05 2015 21:06 GMT
#4004
The actual build is skipping Maledict al'together, but I didn't want to make that the 'standard' for newcomers.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
August 05 2015 21:16 GMT
#4005
Just linking to it since people were talking about, WD guide -
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129191918

There's really 2 builds, one is maxing maledict first, the other is skipping it entirely. Cask can do far more if maxed first than 320 damage to a hero just from bounces from a much longer range than maledict. I suspect the single point in heal is from when heal wasn't proportional in mana (level 1 was much more efficient), but it's still appropriate.

What's there right now skillbuild-wise is a pretty good compromise imo. The maledict max is a lot rarer than the other build, anymore but it's been a decent build ever since maledict range was buffed from 400-550. And maledict is a lot more potent in pubs, generally it's worth leveling.
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-05 22:18:43
August 05 2015 22:18 GMT
#4006
Strategic implications of each marginal rank in Voodoo Restoration during midgame.
1 - Can use mana to sustain self and another character in lane
2 - The double-speed healing means one's team can disengage from a fight, heal up, and reengage with the next creep wave.
3 +4 - Can use heal inside a teamfight to repair a significant fraction of incoming DPS, as long as the other team can't focus fire well.

1, 2 and 4 are all reasonable breakpoints.
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
August 06 2015 03:48 GMT
#4007
On August 06 2015 06:06 Torte de Lini wrote:
The actual build is skipping Maledict al'together, but I didn't want to make that the 'standard' for newcomers.


well, yes. my argument is with that in mind, since you're taking points in maledict at all.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-06 05:27:03
August 06 2015 05:26 GMT
#4008
No Maledict is geared toward pushing and trilanes, neither of which are reliable in low level pub play.

Low level pubs you want to kill stuff, so you get Maledict.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-07 09:16:15
August 06 2015 09:17 GMT
#4009
Earthshaker
Removed Aghanim's Scepter

Alchemist (Lane)
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Moved Silver Edge to Situational Items
Moved Solar Crest to Situational Items
Moved Mjollnir to Extension Items
Removed Armlet of Mordiggan
Removed Quelling Blade
Removed Blade Mail

Alchemist (Middle)
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Silver Edge to Situational Items
Moved Solar Crest to Situational Items
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Removed Radiance
Removed Armlet of Mordiggan
Removed Quelling Blade

Anti-Mage
Moved Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Daedalus

Axe (Lane)
Axe (Jungle)
Removed Urn of Shadows

Bloodseeker (Lane)
Bloodseeker (Middle)
Bloodseeker (Jungle)
Removed Radiance

Bristleback
Moved Monkey King Bar to Extension Items

Chen
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items

Clinkz
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items
Added Desolator to Extension Items
Added Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items
Removed Medallion of Courage
Removed Eye of Skadi
Removed Satanic

Dark Seer
Moved Guardian Greaves to Extension Items
Removed Boots of Travel

Dazzle
New Skill Build: E W Q E E R E W W W R Q Q Q (1. Shadow Wave 2. Shallow Grave 3. Poison Touch)
Added Medallion of Courage to Core Items
Removed Mekansm

Death Prophet
Moved Octarine Core to Luxury Items

Disruptor
New Skill Build: E W W Q W R W E E E R Q Q Q R (1. Glimpse 2. Kinetic Field 3. Thunder Strike)

Dragon Knight (Lane)
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items
Added Sange and Yasha to Extension Items
Moved Silver Edge to Situational Items

Dragon Knight (Middle)
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items
Added Sange and Yasha to Extension Items
Moved Silver Edge to Situational Items
Moved Assault Cuirass to Extension Items

Elder Titan (Lane)
Removed Moon Shard

Elder Titan (Middle)
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items
Moved Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Moved Moon Shard to Extension Items

Faceless Void
Added Maelstrom to Core Items
Moved Mjollnir to Extension Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Moon Shard to Luxury Items

Gyrocopter (Middle)
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Silver Edge to Situational Items

Gyrocopter (Lane)
Added Sange & Yasha to Situational Items
Removed Glimmer Cape

Huskar
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items

Keeper of the Light
Moved Mekansm to Extension Items
Moved Force Staff to Core Items

Kunkka (Lane)
Kunkka (Middle)
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Silver Edge to Situational Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Removed the second Daedalus

Lifestealer (Lane)
Lifestealer (Jungle)
Moved Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Aghanim's Scepter

Lina (Middle)
Moved Blink Dagger to Extension Items
Moved Boots of Travel to Luxury Items - Carry
Removed Monkey King Bar

Lina (Lane)
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Moved Boots of Travel to Luxury Items
Removed Monkey King Bar

Lion
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Moved Force Staff to Extension Items
Removed Dagon

Luna
New Skill Build: E Q Q E Q R Q W W W W R E E E R (1. Lucent Beam 2. Moon Glaive 3. Lunar Blessing)
Removed Assault Cuirass

Nature's Prophet
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items
Moved Orchid of Malevolence to Situational Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Core - Ganker Tab (Phase Boots, Dagon, Ethereal Blade)
Removed Medallion of Courage

Outworld Devourer
Added Refresher's Orb to Extension Items
Moved Assault Cuirass to Extension Items

Phantom Assassin
Removed Butterfly

Phantom Lancer
Added Ring of Basilius to Early Game
moved ring of aquila to after power treads
Moved Drums of Endurance to Core Items

Queen of Pain
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Moved Orchid of Malevolence to Situational Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Luxury Items

Razor
Removed Glimmer Cape
Removed Enchanted Mango

Rubick
Moved Force Staff to Extension Items

Sand King
New Skill Build: Q W Q W Q R Q E W W R E E E R (1. Burrowstrike 2. Sand Storm 3. Caustic Finale)

Shadow Fiend
New Skill Build: Q W Q W Q W Q W Q R E R E E E R (1. Shadowraze 2. Necromastery 3. Presence of the Dark Lord)
Added Sange & Yasha to Situational Items
Added Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items
Removed Healing Salve
Removed Desolator
Removed Manta Style

Legion Commander (Middle)
Legion Commander (Lane)
Removed Aghanim's Scepter

Techies
Moved Force Staff to Core Items
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items
Removed Iron Branch (x2)

Spirit Breaker
Added Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Silver Edge to Situational Items

Templar Assassin
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Moved Manta Style to Situational Items
Moved Sange & Yasha to Extension Items

Timbersaw
Removed Soul Ring
Removed Enchanted Mango

Tusk
Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items
moved blink dagger to after power treads
Removed Aghanim's Scepter
Removed Heart of Tarrasque

Zeus
Added Bloodstone to Extension Items



To-Do
Beastmaster (update to 6.84)
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-06 09:34:13
August 06 2015 09:24 GMT
#4010
I added Bloodstone to Zeus.

I'm seeing a mix of builds for Zeus between what it is now and delaying Static Field until 6.




For Witch Doctor, I feel the current skill build is lot easier to play and more cohesive towards what the team would want [especially with more mistakes being made and execution being weaker]. With Maledict maxed, you're constantly starved for mana on top of the item build where we rush Aghanim's immediately whereas with this build; having only to initiating with your Q, turning on your heal and focusing on key positioning with your ultimate sounds good.

Item build-wise; we could skip Arcane; I would prefer having Glimmer Cape there, but we can discuss it more.

My biggest fear with Witch Doctor is mana consumption and positioning when using your ultimate so I don't get interrupted, I feel the current build relaxes those two areas.




I also updated Luna's skill build (pre-6): Q, E ,E, Q, Q, R Q
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
August 06 2015 09:38 GMT
#4011
On August 06 2015 18:24 Torte de Lini wrote:
I added Bloodstone to Zeus.

I'm seeing a mix of builds for Zeus between what it is now and delaying Static Field until 6.




For Witch Doctor, I feel the current skill build is lot easier to play and more cohesive towards what the team would want [especially with more mistakes being made and execution being weaker]. With Maledict maxed, you're constantly starved for mana on top of the item build where we rush Aghanim's immediately whereas with this build; having only to initiating with your Q, turning on your heal and focusing on key positioning with your ultimate sounds good.

Item build-wise; we could skip Arcane; I would prefer having Glimmer Cape there, but we can discuss it more.

My biggest fear with Witch Doctor is mana consumption and positioning when using your ultimate so I don't get interrupted, I feel the current build relaxes those two areas.




I also updated Luna's skill build (pre-6): Q, E ,E, Q, Q, R Q

surely E Q Q is more standard, like ur rarely gonna be beamin ppl at lvl 1
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-06 09:42:16
August 06 2015 09:41 GMT
#4012
On August 06 2015 18:38 ahswtini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2015 18:24 Torte de Lini wrote:
I added Bloodstone to Zeus.

I'm seeing a mix of builds for Zeus between what it is now and delaying Static Field until 6.




For Witch Doctor, I feel the current skill build is lot easier to play and more cohesive towards what the team would want [especially with more mistakes being made and execution being weaker]. With Maledict maxed, you're constantly starved for mana on top of the item build where we rush Aghanim's immediately whereas with this build; having only to initiating with your Q, turning on your heal and focusing on key positioning with your ultimate sounds good.

Item build-wise; we could skip Arcane; I would prefer having Glimmer Cape there, but we can discuss it more.

My biggest fear with Witch Doctor is mana consumption and positioning when using your ultimate so I don't get interrupted, I feel the current build relaxes those two areas.




I also updated Luna's skill build (pre-6): Q, E ,E, Q, Q, R Q

surely E Q Q is more standard, like ur rarely gonna be beamin ppl at lvl 1


Yes it is, but I was thinking the ministun would help for 0:00 rune

edit: bonus damage for the team or ministun?
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-06 09:56:54
August 06 2015 09:55 GMT
#4013
i question just how useful the ministun is in a rune fight, especially against multiple heroes. i also question basing all of the skill builds in your guides on first rune spawn fights. remember the ppl reading ur guides are, for the most part, going to skill as soon as they are out of the fountain

+14 dmg for ur team is probably better than a 75 dmg (more like 56) nuke, but it depends on how much cc ur team has as well. the moon beam might just secure that last hit on a fleeing hero.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-06 10:24:14
August 06 2015 10:23 GMT
#4014
On August 06 2015 18:55 ahswtini wrote:
i question just how useful the ministun is in a rune fight, especially against multiple heroes. i also question basing all of the skill builds in your guides on first rune spawn fights. remember the ppl reading ur guides are, for the most part, going to skill as soon as they are out of the fountain

+14 dmg for ur team is probably better than a 75 dmg (more like 56) nuke, but it depends on how much cc ur team has as well. the moon beam might just secure that last hit on a fleeing hero.


We'll just have to assume what would be universally more useful.

Reversed it to E, Q, Q, E
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
August 06 2015 13:07 GMT
#4015
i said this yesterday but i believe it was looked over for the other changes..but dont take quelling blade from PL. his illusions get the benefit and jungling goes much faster
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
August 06 2015 13:26 GMT
#4016
On August 06 2015 22:07 BluemoonSC wrote:
i said this yesterday but i believe it was looked over for the other changes..but dont take quelling blade from PL. his illusions get the benefit and jungling goes much faster


Ah yeah, I forgot about that.

I think it's really good; but I moved back to Drums of Endurance again.

With Drums back, you're six-slotted pretty fast and uncomfortably.

Ring of Aquila
Wand
Drums
Power Treads
TP
Stout Shield/Regen/Start of Diffusal
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
August 06 2015 14:12 GMT
#4017
so dump the stout shield, for qb. wand is kinda unnecessary too and u can drop it as soon as u start building diffusal.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
August 06 2015 14:27 GMT
#4018
yeah after lvl 6 you shouldn't be tanking creeps pretty much ever.

i think early on, depending on the lane, stick is useful because you're sorta squishy..but you want the aquilla +treads so spending the extra gold on completing the wand isn't particularly high of a priority
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
August 07 2015 09:18 GMT
#4019
Quelling Blade is back
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-07 09:41:22
August 07 2015 09:21 GMT
#4020
Time to work on Pit Lord if there are no other changes to be made. (Quelling Blade is back, stupid last post)
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
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