EPTIn-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 200
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On August 05 2015 18:47 Torte de Lini wrote: Yeah, that's the reason I changed the skill build. Everyone is skipping poison touch and opting for max Q/W. However, I'm not comfortable removing altogether. If there's enough agreement to just opt out of Q, then I'll do it. I was on the fence. i generally pick up a level in poison touch first to harass the offlaner with. my 2nd point i hold onto for what i need. i think its perfectly fine to have 1-2-2 at lvl 5 | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
i also noticed that your WD guide's itemization was a little peculiar. arcanes and glimmer are nice, but a 20-25 minute aghs is nicer. early game should be a point booster and core items should go agha then arcane and glimmer you can probably switch around depending on how you feel about it..im fairly certain you get all of your spells off with just brown boots + agha. even buying wards, you can get a quick agha and have a larger impact on the game. additionally, maledict should be leveled 2nd and healing last if you're going the agha route. the last guide that i noticed was the zeus middle guide. the core build should be arcanes, bloodstone, mobility (blink, preferably with force staff under situational), octarine. he is one of the few heroes that really takes advantage of the CDR and spell vamp because of static field. octarine could probably be put in extension items, but it should definitely be put first and agha should be placed in situational. agha refresher is good, but its best used when they have a couple of squishy support heroes sub 1k hp. i also think you should have one more point into arc lightning to assist with your jungle farm before maxing out static field. e: don't take quelling blade off of the PL item build. again, it helps your jungling speed. illusions get the ability too! | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Edit: Sry, I miss read the guide on my phone because bad. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On August 05 2015 23:01 BluemoonSC wrote: yeah agree with ahswtini on the dazzle changes. after the stun was removed from poison touch the skill was so so. grave is way more important to max out first. if you dont wanna get rid of it all together, you can just max it last..but you neeeeed to make sure that players pick up grave. i had a game with a dazzle that was definitely using your guide judging from his skill order and his usefulness was decreased. i also noticed that your WD guide's itemization was a little peculiar. arcanes and glimmer are nice, but a 20-25 minute aghs is nicer. early game should be a point booster and core items should go agha then arcane and glimmer you can probably switch around depending on how you feel about it..im fairly certain you get all of your spells off with just brown boots + agha. even buying wards, you can get a quick agha and have a larger impact on the game. additionally, maledict should be leveled 2nd and healing last if you're going the agha route. the last guide that i noticed was the zeus middle guide. the core build should be arcanes, bloodstone, mobility (blink, preferably with force staff under situational), octarine. he is one of the few heroes that really takes advantage of the CDR and spell vamp because of static field. octarine could probably be put in extension items, but it should definitely be put first and agha should be placed in situational. agha refresher is good, but its best used when they have a couple of squishy support heroes sub 1k hp. i also think you should have one more point into arc lightning to assist with your jungle farm before maxing out static field.  Stun for Poison Touch is lvl 4 instead of 3: not removed.I don't understand your advice because it doesn't line up with what the skill build was before nor what it is now. Grave was obtained pretty early in the old build (lvl1); new build also does it pre-6 and then maxed after E. See patch notes above.  No, I think you are wrong about the skill build. It's definitely max W second (after Q) [with a point in E pre-6].The itemization is a more safety net to ensure Witch Doctor can actually pull off his ult without being in fear of being stunned. I think go pure brown boots and straight Aghs is cutting a lot of corners to which pros can do, but not lower levels.  I'm not too sure about the skill build. Are you sure the extra point in Q is not just Zeus' who are going straight for larger items (BS/Octarine?)I'll need a second opinion on his itemization. That sounds like something done at higher levels. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On August 05 2015 23:13 Torte de Lini wrote: I'm very confused, did you guys read the change or? The Dazzle guide has always had 1 point in Poison Touch pre-six (both in previous patches/months and in this new change). The only change done here is that he is maxing Shallow Grave instead of Poison Touch after maxing his heal yeah i skipped the changes and bc ahswtini was still talking about it i figured you didnt make the change. edited my post, sorry! On August 05 2015 23:15 Torte de Lini wrote: Stun for Poison Touch is lvl 4 instead of 3: not removed.I don't understand your advice because it doesn't line up with what the skill build was before nor what it is now. Grave was obtained pretty early in the old build (lvl1); new build also does it pre-6 and then maxed after E. See patch notes above. No, I think you are wrong about the skill build. It's definitely max W second (after Q).The itemization is a more safety net to ensure Witch Doctor can actually pull off his ult without being in fear of being stunned. I think go pure brown boots and straight Aghs is cutting a lot of corners to which pros can do, but not lower levels. I'm not too sure about the skill build. Are you sure the extra point in Q is not just Zeus' who are going straight for larger items (BS/Octarine?)I'll need a second opinion on his itemization. That sounds like something done at higher levels. in 6.81 the mini stun was removed. and like i said, i didnt realize the changes went through already. the problem with maxing maledict after healing is that you're a support and your levels are slow. maledict does serious work in prolonged team fights and by the time you would be maxing it, bkbs are already out on cores, making it far less effective. you really aren't cutting any corners by going brown boots into agha, though. the point booster increases your hp, which is nice bc you're pretty squishy, and your mana pool. the rest of the components give you good stats as well (i prefer the ogre club for the extra hp). even buying wards you can pick it up at about 20-25 minutes and have an enormous affect on teamfights. his agha ultimate is SUCH a game changer when you compare it to his vanilla ultimate. picking up a 2k gold glimmer cape and 900 gold arcanes means youve spent 3000g and have no stats and a single target ultimate that can be stopped by spending 180 gold. at least if you have the agha upgrade, you can get some good damage in before they stop you. i think a lot of people will agree that the aghanims pros outweigh the pros of a vanilla ultimate + glimmer. On August 05 2015 23:26 Torte de Lini wrote: The build goes Force Staff first (or Blink, depending on the decision). http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129065509 Both Refresher/Aghs and Octarine are Extension, so there is no route. skill build: like ahswtini said, skill build has nothing to do with items.this is a mid guide, so clearly he's getting some level of farm priority. that said, the extra point in arc lightning before maxing static field allows you to farm a little better. it means you're casting arc lightning 1-2 times less on small creeps and 2-3 times less on the larger creeps , thus saving time and mana. i understand the items are there, but their location isnt where they should ideally be. in addition, the skill build does promote getting larger items which is what zeus needs in order to do what zeus does. if he goes arcane force staff, again, in a team fight, just like your WD build, he's going to get obliterated because he's super squishy and it doesnt matter that he has a force staff because he's still super slow and will be caught up to. bloodstone gives you everything you want. hp, mana, mana regen..and if you DO get caught, you can deny yourself. the other perk (even though its not a selling point) is that zeus KS's a lot. you can get charges from a kill even if you're doing something else. as for octarine again, youre just making yourself tankier and increasing your mana pool. the CDR really benefits your arc lightning spam due to static field and the spell vamp is actually absurd. it sounds like it will be hard to convince you without actually having you try the build but you're beyond survivable. if you wanted to leave this in extension, i wouldn't be opposed, but its still really good. either way, i believe bloodstone and blink need to be core. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On August 05 2015 23:16 BluemoonSC wrote: yeah i skipped the changes and bc ahswtini was still talking about it i figured you didnt make the change. edited my post, sorry! I didn't make the change that he suggested yet. What you're suggesting was already in the guide since early March. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On August 05 2015 23:22 ahswtini wrote: i often hold my 2nd and 3rd and even 4th skill point when playing dazzle Which can't be written nor imitated in a guide sadly. We can either remove Poison Touch pre-6, so it is just E and W or we can do 1-2-2. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On August 05 2015 23:25 ahswtini wrote: im not sure why going the aghs route influences the skill build The build goes Force Staff first (or Blink, depending on the decision). http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129065509 Both Refresher/Aghs and Octarine are Extension, so there is no route. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On August 05 2015 23:25 Torte de Lini wrote: Which can't be written nor imitated in a guide sadly. We can either remove Poison Touch pre-6, so it is just E and W or we can do 1-2-2. keep poison touch, its useful enough to be cookie cutter. the ability notes section needs to be updated ofc. "levelling shadow grave only increases the cast range" makes it sound like its not worth levelling, so write something about how the extra range means you can stand at a safer distance from the fight. also lowers cooldown. i think you can squeeze in a few lines about holding skill points to see what is needed. like sometimes ur allies have taken some dmg so u take shadow wave just to keep their health topped up, but theres no imminent threat of death. other times, a situation gets bad very quickly and u need grave instead of a paltry 80 points of heal ofc there are the combos where having a lvl 2 shadow wave at lvl 3 is huge eg. naga/shadow demon with shadow wave | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
check it out On August 05 2015 23:17 Torte de Lini wrote: I didn't make the change that he suggested yet. What you're suggesting was already in the guide since early March. you're right, i totally misread. sorry! | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On August 05 2015 23:48 ahswtini wrote: keep poison touch, its useful enough to be cookie cutter. the ability notes section needs to be updated ofc. "levelling shadow grave only increases the cast range" makes it sound like its not worth levelling, so write something about how the extra range means you can stand at a safer distance from the fight. also lowers cooldown. i think you can squeeze in a few lines about holding skill points to see what is needed. like sometimes ur allies have taken some dmg so u take shadow wave just to keep their health topped up, but theres no imminent threat of death. other times, a situation gets bad very quickly and u need grave instead of a paltry 80 points of heal ofc there are the combos where having a lvl 2 shadow wave at lvl 3 is huge eg. naga/shadow demon with shadow wave Any and all text is bugged and can't be updated: https://vid.me/I3NM | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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