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 Viper
New Skill Build: Q W Q E E R E E W W R W Q Q (1. Corrosive Skin 2. Nethertoxin 3. Poison Attack)
Added Manta Style to Situational Items
Added Black King Bar to Extension Items
Added Sange and Yasha to Extension Items
Removed Glimmer Cape
Nature's Prophet
Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items
Moved Shadow Blade to Core - Pusher
Moved Orchid of Malevolence to Extension Items
Removed Glimmer Cape
Removed Moon Shard
 Pugna
Added Guardian Greaves to Core - Pusher
 Phantom Assassin
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Stifling Dagger 2. Phantom Strike 3. Blur)
Added Eye of Skadi to Extension Items
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Moved Battlefury to Situational Items
Moved Butterfly to Situational Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
 Leshrac (Middle)
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Removed Tranquil Boots
 Silencer (Lane)
Moved Rod of Atos to Core Items
Moved Mekansm to Situational Items
Silencer (Middle)
Moved Force Staff to Extension Items
Moved Rod of Atos to Extension Items
 Lina (Middle)
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Moved Blink Dagger to Situational Items
Moved Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Lina (Lane)
Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items
Moved Blink Dagger to Extension Items
Moved Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Moved Octarine Core to Luxury Items
Moved Scythe of Vyse to Luxury Items
Removed Mjollnir
Removed Eye of Skadi
Winter Wyvern
New Skill Build: Q W W E W R W Q Q Q R E E E R (1. Splinter Blast 2. Arctic Burn 3. Cold Embrace)
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items
moved soul ring after boots of speed
Moved Magic Wand to Core Items after tranquil boots
Queen of Pain
Created New Tab: "Luxury Items"
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Added Refresher's Orb to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to "Luxury Items"
Added Eye of Skadi to "Luxury Items"
Added Octarine Core to "Luxury Items"
Moved Magic Wand to Core Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational Items
Removed Ghost Secepter
Removed Mjollnir
 Brewmaster (Lane)
Brewmaster (Middle)
Removed Moon Shard
 Clockwerk
Added Bottle to Early Game
Added Solar Crest to Extension Items
Moved Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items
 Batirder
Moved Magic Wand to Core Items
Removed Tranquil Boots
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
 Bloodseeker (Jungle)
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Added Boots of Speed to Early Game
Moved Hand of Midas to Early Game
Moved Radiance to Situational Items
Moved Silver Edge to Situational Items
Bloodseeker (Jungle)
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Added Boots of Speed to Early Game
Moved Poor Man's Shield to Early Game
Moved Radiance to Situational Items
Elder Titan (Middle)
Elder Titan (Lane)
Removed Moon Shard
To-Do
Revise Silver Edge on builds
Revise Queen of Pain (incl. right-click luxury items?)
Consider Moon Shard as additional Luxury (+ Boots of Travel) or Extension.
Earthshaker (remove Aghs)
Beastmaster (update to 6.84)
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Ancient Apparition Bugged (2x)
Axe Bugged (2x)
Earthshaker Bugged
Elder Titan Bugger (2x)
Beastmaster Bugged (2x)
Brewmaster Bugged (2x)
Bristleback
Dark Seer
Dragon Knight (2x)
Earth Spirit (2x)
Ember Spirit Bugged (2x)
Enchantress
Faceless Void
Huskar
Invoker
IO
Keeper of the Light
Kunkka (2x)
Lina (2x)
Legion Commander (2x)
Lone Druid (2x)
Luna
Magnus
Meepo
Mirana
Nature's Prophet
Nyx Assassin (2x)
Outworld Devourer
Phantom Assassin
Phoenix (2x)
Queen of Pain
Rubick
Sand King
Shadow Fiend
Silencer (2x)
Storm Spirit
Techies
Templar Assassin
Tidehunter
Timbersaw
Tinker
Troll Warlord (2x)
Tusk
Undying
Ursa (2x)
Vengeful Spirit
Viper
Visage
Windranger (2x)
Witch Doctor
Zeus
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After ~15 days (July 16 to July 31), we have risen from 87,237,033 to 89,738,282 combined subscriptions
A difference of 2,501,249
Average Growth of subscribers is 618,884.70
Growth Percentage is 2.87% 5 least popular guides (bottom being the least popular):- Brewmaster (Middle) (1,462)
- Shadow Shaman (Middle) (1,262)
- Warlock (Middle) (1,147)
- Windranger (Middle) (876)
- Alchemist (Middle) (751)
5 most popular guides (top being the most popular):- Lifestealer (Jungle)
- Sven
- Necrophos
- Juggernaut
- Phantom Lancer
Notable Growths in Subscriptions:Newly Released Guides:
Associated Reddit Topic - n/a
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- Growth of Subscribers resumes back to 2 million area (will continue to drop)
- Growth Rate Percentage at a steady 2.87%. A continue drop since patch 6.84
- 13.57% of last month's unique players [11,177,912] are subscribed to the Lifestealer (Jungle) Guide
- Earthshaker recently hit the 1 million mark (1,004,647)
- Eight guides are currently swimming towards the 1 million mark: Mirana (96,839), Luna (987,460), Faceless Void (976,090), Tiny [Lane] (975,991), Windranger (975,186), Storm Spirit (970,041), Shadow Fiend (966,626), Pugna (961,715)
- Top 28 guides are approx. 900k subscribers or higher each (up to 1 million+ in a guide)
- Top 44 guides are approx. 800k subscribers or higher each
- Top 63 guides are approx. 700k subscribers or higher each
- Top 82 guides are approx. 600k subscribers or higher each
- Top 102 guides are approx. 500k subscribers or higher each
- Top 118 guides are approx. 400k subscribers or higher each
- Top 129 guides are approx. 300k subscribers or higher each
- Top 136 guides are approx. 200k subscribers or higher each
- Top 141 guides are approx. 100k subscribers or higher each
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11,240,314 people subscribed to that nightmare guide. End the blight of Jungle Lifestealer. The guides are supposed to make people and games better. 
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United States47024 Posts
It's actually only 1,516,308 people (13% of 11,240,314, which is the total for last month's unique players), but the point stands.
We've been asking for it to be removed for ages, but Torte's position is that it's too popular to kill.
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At least label it as a terrible way to play the hero or put a quote in by a pro saying it terrible. If there are popular guides to bad plans, people should know why they are terrible.
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SoCal8910 Posts
its a horrendous strategy, but at least there is a guide to do it properly as opposed to someone just doing it randomly and completely not succeeding.
i'd rather have my jungle naix following torte's guide than him just doing whatever he wants, personally.
plus, in the bracket where it is most likely to occur, i doubt people are bothering to even stop him from farming woods you know?
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United States47024 Posts
"Properly" would entail a detailed guide on using chokepoint jungling, which is outside the scope of what these guides can provide.
Everything else isn't that different from what you'd get from the lane guide, aside from obvious stuff like starting with a QB.
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
but it calls for midas first
is that rly doing it properly?!?!?!?!
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Let me update that second post. I stopped midway for lunch.
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I can't comment midas part. But the existence of the guide gives the impression that it a viable way to play the hero at a skill level higher than the user of the guide. If it is going to exist it should be clearly labeled as not viable in high level play.
Bad things should be labeled as bad.
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SoCal8910 Posts
ya i honestly havent even taken a look at the guide. i was just being devil's advoacte, here lol
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U don't even have to delete the LS guide u just change the name one patch to (Lane) instead of (Jungle) and nobody notices
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On August 01 2015 00:11 Plansix wrote:11,240,314 people subscribed to that nightmare guide. End the blight of Jungle Lifestealer. The guides are supposed to make people and games better.
All marketing value aside (13.5% of the total Dota unique playerbase subscribed to it). You have to realize two things:
1. If someone wants to jungle as Lifestealer, they will find a way to do it. By removing the guide, users will not go to the Lane version, they will instead move the next 4-5 guides, which are Jungle Lifestealer guides:
So we can either accept the circumstances or try to force people to play an optimal way which is hardly reasonable for newcomers. My suggestion remains the same, contribute to improve the Jungle version to ensure that if people do want to play this way, will play it at a semi-reasonable way or promote the Lane version to increase exposure and subscriptions
Since Lifestealer is not in the current meta, subscriptions, popularity and exposure for it is relatively low. This hinders the growth of newer guides (Lifestealer - Lane) and stalls its eventual popularity and ratings.
2. In lower-ranked games, it is okay to play a hero in a less "optimal" way if it means a better comfort and more time to better understand a hero. So in this instance, Jungle Lifestealer is flawed and not "optimal" but also allows for safe-farming, easier exp. in lanes where harassment is limited in addition to weak execution of ganks/roaming heroes.
On August 01 2015 01:46 Sn0_Man wrote:
U don't even have to delete the LS guide u just change the name one patch to (Lane) instead of (Jungle) and nobody notices
I've done it before for heroes that were closer to their subscription numbers because there was equal support and desire for both.
For Lifestealer, It's 1.5 million to 175,000; that's a 1.325 million difference in subscribers (unique).
On August 01 2015 00:17 Plansix wrote:
At least label it as a terrible way to play the hero or put a quote in by a pro saying it terrible. If there are popular guides to bad plans, people should know why they are terrible.
I already have the Lane version listed as an alternative directly in the Jungle Guide: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128728638
It shows up every time they open their shop.
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On August 01 2015 01:37 Plansix wrote:
I can't comment midas part. But the existence of the guide gives the impression that it a viable way to play the hero at a skill level higher than the user of the guide. If it is going to exist it should be clearly labeled as not viable in high level play.
Bad things should be labeled as bad.
I can label it as less optimal in its Hero general description once the bug is fixed that prevents guides from being updated at the moment. We can do that for a variety of current hero builds.
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These Hero Builds are a question of trust. You trust the users to want to play better and you also offer all options if they have a preferred way of playing. If they want to improve, they won't use the guides as a crutch, but if they do, you can assume they'll always be stuck at a certain level, far away from those who seek improvement.
Even if a particular way is not as good as another, it's about ensuring that they are following a series of guides that keep two core values: 1. consistency in its updates and intentions and 2. staying receptive and open to feedback and the expert of others
No other collection of hero builds is doing that on both counts. That's unfortunate, but it also means that there is an even stronger emphasis of responsibility to maintain those two points. Users are reliant on the expertise of hero build creators without knowing the person, we stray from that by being completely open in the changes and in providing options with the ability to alter it with feedback and input.
For Lifestealer (Jungle), it's not popular right now or even at higher levels. Other guides have also fallen out or been redundant and I've subsequently deleted them. Lina (Middle) has been unpopular for the longest time [Jan 31 to May 17] but is now steadily growing at 216,000.
It takes time for some guides to gain popularity or to surpass one another. We can help that (Skywrath Middle/Lane guides were swapped) or we can phase one out (Legion Commander Middle was previously Jungle), but we can't force drastic changes and force users to play one way or another.
For example, Axe (Lane) has remained the popular guide between two (Lane/Jungle) for 2 years. I made Axe (Jungle) earlier in 2014 [a year+ later] and it has already reached 400,000+ subscriptions in comparison to Axe (Lane) at 560,000+. That's the nature of things, people want to play how they want to play, we're just making sure it is to the best of their ability.
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I think the way you handle it overall has been great.
My only suggestion would be for something like Jungle Naix put a disclaimer at the top and call it a day (when you can.
I think opening the guide with something like:
"LANING NAIX IS PREFERABLE TO JUNGLING NAIX. PLEASE SEE LANE GUIDE FOR MORE INFO"
Would be sufficient enough to at least get people thinking about it in some cases.
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 Earthshaker
Removed Aghanim's Scepter
To-Do
Revise Silver Edge on builds
Revise Queen of Pain (incl. right-click luxury items?)
Consider Moon Shard as additional Luxury (+ Boots of Travel) or Extension.
Beastmaster (update to 6.84)
Update Techies
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SuNF35v.png)
