EPTIn-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 192
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Kmatt
United States1019 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
honestly, bfury on pa shud not be core anyway. it means pa comes online much later, and she doesnt have the flashfarming ability that am has to make full use of it. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On July 18 2015 00:32 ahswtini wrote: deso vlads is ok if u need to fight early, but even if u have a tough laning phase, a hotd bkb basher build shud still be quite easy to farm up as they are all built with reasonably cheap items honestly, bfury on pa shud not be core anyway. it means pa comes online much later, and she doesnt have the flashfarming ability that am has to make full use of it. hotd bkb basher is definitely the build. i like aquilla and treads too, personally. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On July 18 2015 00:32 ahswtini wrote: deso vlads is ok if u need to fight early, but even if u have a tough laning phase, a hotd bkb basher build shud still be quite easy to farm up as they are all built with reasonably cheap items honestly, bfury on pa shud not be core anyway. it means pa comes online much later, and she doesnt have the flashfarming ability that am has to make full use of it. Yes, this was my issue too when playing Phantom Assassin. Even when doing very well early-game, I felt battlefury was more of a hindrance than an aid at times (depending on the game). Will be adding HOTD/BKB/Basher | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
the nether toxin first build isn't so great. i think many people will agree that the max corrosive skin is the way to build him. the bonus dmg is nice, but more often than not, you're gonna get more out of the benefits corrosive skin offers (you can't man up on him), especially bc you're slow as all hell which brings me to the next thing. mek is horrendous on him right now. the mana cost depletes him of his mana and it's a sorta outdated build right now, especially if you're going agha for the tank, you don't need the mek. if instead he picks up a yasha, it greatly increases his dominance early on (especially if you're getting treads). he can use it to build into SNY if necessary or sell it when he eventually gets to six slot. BKB and assault cuirass are also missing in in situational items, and glimmer is not superior to shadow blade nor as substitute for BKB, IMO. he could also stand to purchase a wand since he will want to be fighting often. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
I don't know why Torte insists on not maxing Corrosive first. Other skill orders are fine based on the game, but Corrosive max is the most common generally safe option. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On July 21 2015 04:56 TheYango wrote: Mek first is still the most standard. Its not "outdated" or "horrendous" at all. Using all your mana isn't even a huge deal because before Agha your mana usage doesn't matter. Treads swap and alternate regular and orb attacks intelligently and send a clarity between fights. you gotta remember that you're dealing with the average pubber who is likely doing none of the above. i feel like in the case of SF where you're getting a bottle and you can use razes to farm quickly you can mek, but with viper, no matter how fast you get it, i think you're inhibiting his farm and chase/dmg earlier on in the game because he's so slow. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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Velzi
Finland659 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
Mek has insane mana cost now. Either you'll need a very conservative skill usage(limits your impact) or spend more resources to have mana early on(limits mek impact). | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On July 21 2015 17:22 Velzi wrote: so obviously corrosive is maxed first but do you go 1-1-4-1 or something else? personally i like to go qwqeereewwrwqq+r+, i feel like 2 lvls in q lets me get more hits on faster targets compared to just 1q. thoughts? ultimately it depends on how fast your enemy laner is, but i like the 2 points because of the additional slow. 2-1-2-1 into 2-1-4-1 i think is the build by 8 if we're talking about cookie cutter for his guides | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 21 2015 22:07 Laserist wrote: Mek has insane mana cost now. Either you'll need a very conservative skill usage(limits your impact) or spend more resources to have mana early on(limits mek impact). You often get Basi or Aquila for laning anyway. That basically covers in-lane usage of Poison Attack. You cast Ulti and Meka off of Intel Treads, and make sure you alternate Poison Attack and regular attacks (Poison Attack lasts 2s, with Treads AS you pass the point where you attack once per second, so using Poison Attack on every attack is a waste of mana anyway). Send clarities after fights. You have absolutely no problem leveraging your Mek timing, and once you get the Point Booster for your Agh's, it becomes a total non-issue. Meka is still bought virtually every game in competitive play on Viper. Pub play is different, but it's near-ubiquity in competitive play should show that the mana cost is in no way a deterrent to using the item because the hero's mana demands are otherwise so low anyway. Meka still very much standard. The argument against Meka Viper in pubs is that it's not a selfish item, and pubs favor selfish play. But that was equally true before the Meka mana cost nerf. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 22 2015 00:29 TheYango wrote: Also Torte, if that Silencer Lane guide is for support, Meka should be move to situational. In normal circumstances a support Silencer doesn't pick up the farm for a Meka in any reasonable time because he has almost no farming ability. Thank you. To this day I have no idea why that items is there. By the time you get it, your hiding so far behind the team they can't take advantage of it. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
As for skill build, I am still very confused why we won't max Nethertoxin. With the advantage of mid-lane levels and your first-strike ganking with your ultimate; it still makes sense to me to max Nethertoxin over Corrosive Skin. that is not to say, I don't see the validity and standard way of generally maxing Corrosive Skin, it just doesn't personally make sense to me and in my experience. I will update the guide and put it in Corrosive Skin (also looking to add Manta Style to Extension + BKB to Situational).  Updating that build nowalso updating (and will need re-examination) | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On July 22 2015 00:29 TheYango wrote: Also Torte, if that Silencer Lane guide is for support, Meka should be move to situational. In normal circumstances a support Silencer doesn't pick up the farm for a Meka in any reasonable time because he has almost no farming ability. Yep, it's something that was on my last week and didn't get to it yet; good eye On July 17 2015 18:47 Torte de Lini wrote: Might have to update this  builds:http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129072324 http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=334021836 Mid still goes Aghs/Refresher Lane goes Meka/Force Staff Feels like the standard is gearing towards Atos, Shadow Blade Mid still Aghanim's though Also, they max W before Q, how peculiar. Let me do this today | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
On July 21 2015 17:22 Velzi wrote: so obviously corrosive is maxed first but do you go 1-1-4-1 or something else? personally i like to go qwqeereewwrwqq+r+, i feel like 2 lvls in q lets me get more hits on faster targets compared to just 1q. thoughts? For a cookie-cutter build, 2 early levels in q is necessary because Viper's slow and can't keep up with some heroes, or anyone who has phase boots, even after applying poison attack 1. If the enemy team is mostly slow heroes with treads/arcanes, poison attack can stay at 1. | ||
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