• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:29
CET 11:29
KST 19:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League73Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
Oceanic Brood War - Join and chat! Bot on ladder Do we even care about balance? [Recap] 0-6 Defeat for Mong's Team BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [ASL22] Grand Finals [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10572 users

In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 192

Forum Index > The Tavern
Post a Reply
Prev 1 190 191 192 193 194 371 Next
Kmatt
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1019 Posts
July 17 2015 15:28 GMT
#3821
For the Non-Battlefury PA, what about a fast Desolator for when you have to fight early? Going off of the current in-game guide I had Treads/Vlad's/Desolator done in an imperfect lane around 17:00. The only thing I changed was buying a Ring of Protection at the start instead of the Stout Shield.
We CAN have nice things
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-17 15:34:25
July 17 2015 15:32 GMT
#3822
deso vlads is ok if u need to fight early, but even if u have a tough laning phase, a hotd bkb basher build shud still be quite easy to farm up as they are all built with reasonably cheap items

honestly, bfury on pa shud not be core anyway. it means pa comes online much later, and she doesnt have the flashfarming ability that am has to make full use of it.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
July 17 2015 22:35 GMT
#3823
On July 18 2015 00:32 ahswtini wrote:
deso vlads is ok if u need to fight early, but even if u have a tough laning phase, a hotd bkb basher build shud still be quite easy to farm up as they are all built with reasonably cheap items

honestly, bfury on pa shud not be core anyway. it means pa comes online much later, and she doesnt have the flashfarming ability that am has to make full use of it.


hotd bkb basher is definitely the build. i like aquilla and treads too, personally.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
July 18 2015 13:24 GMT
#3824
On July 18 2015 00:32 ahswtini wrote:
deso vlads is ok if u need to fight early, but even if u have a tough laning phase, a hotd bkb basher build shud still be quite easy to farm up as they are all built with reasonably cheap items

honestly, bfury on pa shud not be core anyway. it means pa comes online much later, and she doesnt have the flashfarming ability that am has to make full use of it.


Yes, this was my issue too when playing Phantom Assassin. Even when doing very well early-game, I felt battlefury was more of a hindrance than an aid at times (depending on the game).

Will be adding HOTD/BKB/Basher
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
July 20 2015 19:39 GMT
#3825
torte you gotta do something about your viper build.

the nether toxin first build isn't so great. i think many people will agree that the max corrosive skin is the way to build him. the bonus dmg is nice, but more often than not, you're gonna get more out of the benefits corrosive skin offers (you can't man up on him), especially bc you're slow as all hell which brings me to the next thing.

mek is horrendous on him right now. the mana cost depletes him of his mana and it's a sorta outdated build right now, especially if you're going agha for the tank, you don't need the mek. if instead he picks up a yasha, it greatly increases his dominance early on (especially if you're getting treads). he can use it to build into SNY if necessary or sell it when he eventually gets to six slot.

BKB and assault cuirass are also missing in in situational items, and glimmer is not superior to shadow blade nor as substitute for BKB, IMO.

he could also stand to purchase a wand since he will want to be fighting often.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-20 19:57:39
July 20 2015 19:56 GMT
#3826
Mek first is still the most standard. Its not "outdated" or "horrendous" at all. Using all your mana isn't even a huge deal because before Agha your mana usage doesn't matter. Treads swap and alternate regular and orb attacks intelligently and send a clarity between fights.

I don't know why Torte insists on not maxing Corrosive first. Other skill orders are fine based on the game, but Corrosive max is the most common generally safe option.
Moderator
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-20 20:13:38
July 20 2015 20:13 GMT
#3827
On July 21 2015 04:56 TheYango wrote:
Mek first is still the most standard. Its not "outdated" or "horrendous" at all. Using all your mana isn't even a huge deal because before Agha your mana usage doesn't matter. Treads swap and alternate regular and orb attacks intelligently and send a clarity between fights.


you gotta remember that you're dealing with the average pubber who is likely doing none of the above.

i feel like in the case of SF where you're getting a bottle and you can use razes to farm quickly you can mek, but with viper, no matter how fast you get it, i think you're inhibiting his farm and chase/dmg earlier on in the game because he's so slow.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
July 20 2015 22:41 GMT
#3828
i dont see that many mek vipers anymore, its often straight into sny then aghs
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Velzi
Profile Joined June 2012
Finland659 Posts
July 21 2015 08:22 GMT
#3829
so obviously corrosive is maxed first but do you go 1-1-4-1 or something else? personally i like to go qwqeereewwrwqq+r+, i feel like 2 lvls in q lets me get more hits on faster targets compared to just 1q. thoughts?
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
July 21 2015 08:55 GMT
#3830
Things are a little shaky right now for me, I'll try and update 2-3 builds today or this week, sorry.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Laserist
Profile Joined September 2011
Turkey4269 Posts
July 21 2015 13:07 GMT
#3831
As long as Viper is concerned, after 1-1-1 skill build, it doesn't add that much to skill one after another. It depends on the opposition and your approach to the game. When I played I feel like I am constantly out of mana. Maybe my management is bad but keep in mind Viper is a stupid hero without that much mana. Probably you'll use some poison beforehand anyways which means you have a very limited mana pool to work with.
Mek has insane mana cost now. Either you'll need a very conservative skill usage(limits your impact) or spend more resources to have mana early on(limits mek impact).
“Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-21 14:23:41
July 21 2015 14:23 GMT
#3832
On July 21 2015 17:22 Velzi wrote:
so obviously corrosive is maxed first but do you go 1-1-4-1 or something else? personally i like to go qwqeereewwrwqq+r+, i feel like 2 lvls in q lets me get more hits on faster targets compared to just 1q. thoughts?


ultimately it depends on how fast your enemy laner is, but i like the 2 points because of the additional slow.

2-1-2-1 into 2-1-4-1 i think is the build by 8 if we're talking about cookie cutter for his guides
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-21 15:27:20
July 21 2015 15:16 GMT
#3833
On July 21 2015 22:07 Laserist wrote:
Mek has insane mana cost now. Either you'll need a very conservative skill usage(limits your impact) or spend more resources to have mana early on(limits mek impact).

You often get Basi or Aquila for laning anyway. That basically covers in-lane usage of Poison Attack. You cast Ulti and Meka off of Intel Treads, and make sure you alternate Poison Attack and regular attacks (Poison Attack lasts 2s, with Treads AS you pass the point where you attack once per second, so using Poison Attack on every attack is a waste of mana anyway). Send clarities after fights. You have absolutely no problem leveraging your Mek timing, and once you get the Point Booster for your Agh's, it becomes a total non-issue.

Meka is still bought virtually every game in competitive play on Viper. Pub play is different, but it's near-ubiquity in competitive play should show that the mana cost is in no way a deterrent to using the item because the hero's mana demands are otherwise so low anyway. Meka still very much standard.

The argument against Meka Viper in pubs is that it's not a selfish item, and pubs favor selfish play. But that was equally true before the Meka mana cost nerf.
Moderator
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
July 21 2015 15:29 GMT
#3834
Also Torte, if that Silencer Lane guide is for support, Meka should be move to situational. In normal circumstances a support Silencer doesn't pick up the farm for a Meka in any reasonable time because he has almost no farming ability.
Moderator
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 21 2015 15:32 GMT
#3835
On July 22 2015 00:29 TheYango wrote:
Also Torte, if that Silencer Lane guide is for support, Meka should be move to situational. In normal circumstances a support Silencer doesn't pick up the farm for a Meka in any reasonable time because he has almost no farming ability.

Thank you. To this day I have no idea why that items is there. By the time you get it, your hiding so far behind the team they can't take advantage of it.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
July 21 2015 15:46 GMT
#3836
It probably started as a guide for carry Silencer when first item Meka was what you did on that hero, then slowly transitioned to support Silencer because that became the norm for how to play him, but somehow the item stayed there.
Moderator
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
July 21 2015 16:09 GMT
#3837
probs the old ways of "supports buy mek"
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-21 17:37:57
July 21 2015 17:37 GMT
#3838
I'll go through the posts now, but I do not understand whatsoever how anyone has mana issues with Viper while going Meka?

As for skill build, I am still very confused why we won't max Nethertoxin. With the advantage of mid-lane levels and your first-strike ganking with your ultimate; it still makes sense to me to max Nethertoxin over Corrosive Skin.

that is not to say, I don't see the validity and standard way of generally maxing Corrosive Skin, it just doesn't personally make sense to me and in my experience. I will update the guide and put it in Corrosive Skin (also looking to add Manta Style to Extension + BKB to Situational).

Updating that build now

also updating (and will need re-examination)
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
July 21 2015 17:38 GMT
#3839
On July 22 2015 00:29 TheYango wrote:
Also Torte, if that Silencer Lane guide is for support, Meka should be move to situational. In normal circumstances a support Silencer doesn't pick up the farm for a Meka in any reasonable time because he has almost no farming ability.


Yep, it's something that was on my last week and didn't get to it yet; good eye

On July 17 2015 18:47 Torte de Lini wrote:
Might have to update this builds:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129072324

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=334021836

Mid still goes Aghs/Refresher
Lane goes Meka/Force Staff

Feels like the standard is gearing towards Atos, Shadow Blade
Mid still Aghanim's though

Also, they max W before Q, how peculiar.

Show nested quote +
On July 16 2015 19:54 icystorage wrote:
in regards to np, I have to argue that 1/1/1 at level 3 is much better than 0/1/2. The potential to gank at level 3 (especially when youre up against a trilane thus can level up faster) but if youre jungling then 0/1/2 is fine but i dislike jungling np so much. id rather start with boots + tango + 1 ward (from support) in a trilane for maximum effectiveness while placing a ward at the jungle next to the lane.

i also suggest that you change the sprout ability notes. clicking on the hero is much much much much better with 0 error on your part. as soon as the casting animation starts it will guarantee a sprout catch assuming he doesnt blink/fs.

Core pusher with SB before book is better imo due to being much safer (my preference)


Let me do this today
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-21 17:47:41
July 21 2015 17:44 GMT
#3840
On July 21 2015 17:22 Velzi wrote:
so obviously corrosive is maxed first but do you go 1-1-4-1 or something else? personally i like to go qwqeereewwrwqq+r+, i feel like 2 lvls in q lets me get more hits on faster targets compared to just 1q. thoughts?


For a cookie-cutter build, 2 early levels in q is necessary because Viper's slow and can't keep up with some heroes, or anyone who has phase boots, even after applying poison attack 1.

If the enemy team is mostly slow heroes with treads/arcanes, poison attack can stay at 1.
Prev 1 190 191 192 193 194 371 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 32m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 6103
Calm 4662
firebathero 2753
Rain 2212
Horang2 1153
Hyuk 384
Larva 278
Soma 214
Rush 209
EffOrt 202
[ Show more ]
Light 141
Soulkey 109
Pusan 106
Mind 92
ZerO 84
JYJ 78
Killer 36
Shinee 34
ToSsGirL 28
ZergMaN 26
sorry 24
Movie 23
Sharp 23
ggaemo 22
Hm[arnc] 16
Sacsri 13
Terrorterran 13
yabsab 12
Noble 11
Creator 2
Dota 2
Gorgc12546
ODPixel219
XcaliburYe61
Counter-Strike
dupreeh921
shoxiejesuss914
gobbtv5
Other Games
Happy339
Livibee258
Pyrionflax210
crisheroes204
ZerO(Twitch)7
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL15607
Other Games
gamesdonequick946
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 8
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 28
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt424
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
1h 32m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
1d 13h
The PondCast
1d 23h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Yamato Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.