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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 170

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Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-24 15:59:22
April 28 2015 20:41 GMT
#3381
DRAFT Patch 6.84

+ Show Spoiler +
Unchanged


Skill Changes subject to change
+ Show Spoiler +
Alchemist
Crystal Maiden (ult at 6)
Juggernaut (revert to old build?)
Lifestealer (2 less levels in Open Wounds?)
Nyx Assassin - Middle (gear towards non-dagon?)
Pugna (max decrepify second?)
Riki (prioritize smoke lvl 1)
Sand King (early level - Caustic Finale?)


Item Changes subject to change
+ Show Spoiler +
Abaddon
Alchemist
Ancient Apparition
Axe
Bane
Batrider
Beastmaster (Valve, please update this guide so the ult can be skilled)
Bloodseeker
Bounty Hunter
Brewmaster
Bristleback
Broodmother
Centaur Warrunner
Chaos Knight
Chen
Clinkz
Clockwerk
Dark Seer
Dazzle
Death Prophet
Disruptor
Dragon Knight
Drow Ranger
Earthshaker
Earth Spirit
Elder Titan
Ember Spirit
Enchantress
Enigma
Gyrocopter
Huskar
Invoker
IO
Jakiro
Juggernaut
Keeper of the Light
Kunkka
Legion Commander
Leshrac
Lich
Lifestealer
Lina
Lone Druid
Luna
Lycan
Magnus
Medusa
Meepo
Mirana
Morphling
Naga Siren
Nature's Prophet
Necrophos
Night Stalker
Nyx Assassin
Ogre Magi
Omniknight
Oracle
Outworld Devourer
Phantom Assassin
Phantom Lancer
Phoenix
Puck
Pudge
Pugna
Queen of Pain
Razor
Riki
Rubick
Sand King
Shadow Demon
Shadow Shaman
Shadow Fiend
Silencer
Slardar
Slark
Sniper
Spectre
Spirit Breaker
Storm Spirit
Sven
Techies
Templar Assassin
Terrorblade
Tidehunter
Timbersaw
Tinker
Tiny
Treant Protector
Troll Warlord
Tusk
Undying
Ursa
Vengeful Spirit
Venomancer
Viper
Visage
Warlock
Weaver
Windranger
Winter Wyvern
Witch Doctor
Wraith King
Zeus


Item Application: subject to change
Quelling Blade:
Eul's Scepter of Divinity: Remove on a bunch of heroes
Magic Wand -> Change to Magic Stick or starting items to consider circlet
Mask of Madness: Revert back to old build
Observer Wards: Change starting items desc. to indicate buying both courier + wards
Refresher Orb: remove on
Vladmir's Offering: more included on utility heroes/supports
Aghanim's Scepter (Core/Situational/Extension):
Blink Dagger:
Boots of Travel:
Mask of Madness:
Enchanted Mango: Junglers? some midlaners and bottle holders
Glimmer Cape: for supports
Solar Crest: for utility heroes (situational)
Lotus Orb: tanky heroes?
Moon Shard: Carries/Str heroes/Bashers
Silver Edge: Gankers/S&Y who don't care for Yasha
Guardian Greaves: Supports/Utilities
Octarine Core: Nukers

Potential New Guides subject to change
Sand King - Jungle
Windranger - Middle
[*] above are just initial thoughts, not accurate or reflective of upcoming changes[/list]

[image loading]


New color for patch 6.84 (dark solid purple plum)

Actual Schedule (CEST)
Day 1
- 8 to 12:00: Patch Analysis, information collecting (videos, opinions, etc.) + draft notes
- 12:00 to 12:30: Lunch
- 12:30 to 3:00: Title Changes + Date Updates for initial unchanged heroes (un/mentioned from the patch notes)
- 3:00 to 5:30: Narrow and apply initial changes (descriptions, obvious skill builds) + finish my actual job
- 5:30 to 6:30: Dinner/Rest
- 6:30 to 10:30: Apply changes
- 10:30 onward: Rest and actual dinner

Day 2
- 10 to 11:00: Further application of items, updating descriptions.

Total Elapsed Time (including lunch/dinner): 27.5 hours
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-24 15:58:03
April 28 2015 20:41 GMT
#3382
DRAFT Patch 6.84

+ Show Spoiler +
Unchanged


Skill Changes subject to change
+ Show Spoiler +


Item Changes subject to change
+ Show Spoiler +


Item Application: subject to change


Potential New Guides subject to change
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-30 16:44:32
April 28 2015 20:41 GMT
#3383
Final Total Subscriptions (6.83): 71,550,929


Patch 6.84 Applied Changes
These are initial changes, more will be made with further feedback and analysis

Unchanged
Ancient Apparition (Lane)
Ancient Apparition (Middle)
Bane
Bounty Hunter
Clinkz
Disruptor
Doom (Jungle)
Doom (Lane)
Earth Spirit (Middle)
Enchantress
Huskar
Luna
Meepo
Naga Siren (Lane)
Naga Siren (Middle)
Outworld Devourer
Phantom Assassin
Phantom Lancer (Lane)
Puck
Queen of Pain
Shadow Shaman (Middle)
Skywrath Mage (Middle)
Sniper (Lane)
Sniper (Middle)
Storm Spirit
Templar Assassin
Terrorblade
Tiny (Lane)
Tiny (Middle)
Treant Protector
Warlock (Middle)
Winter Wyvern

Applied Changes
Abaddon
Added Guardian Greaves to Extension Items
Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items
Added Necromonicon to Situational Items
Removed Heart of Tarrasque
Removed Iron Branch to afford both courier and wards
Removed Skull Basher
Removed Sange & Yasha

Alchemist (Lane)
New Skill Build: E W W Q W R W Q Q Q R E E E (1. Unstable Concoction 2. Acid Spray 3. Greevil's Greed)
Starting Items: Tango, Stout Shield, 3x Iron Branch
Early Game: Magic Wand, Boots of Speed
Core Items: Power Treads, Medallion of Courage, Shadow Blade, Armlet of Mordiggan
Situational Items: Blink Dagger, Blade Mail, Solar Crest, Black King Bar, Mjollnir
Extension Items: Solar Crest, Silver Edge, Abyssal Blade, Daedalus, Butterfly
Luxury Items: Boots of Travel, Moon Shard, Aghanim's Scepter

Alchemist (Middle)
New Skill Build: E Q Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Acid Spray 2. Unstable Concoction 3. Greevil's Greed)
Starting Items: Tango, Stout Shield, Clarity
Early Game: Bottle
Core Items: Power Treads, Medallion of Courage, Shadow Blade, Armlet of Mordiggan
Situational Items: Blink Dagger, Blade Mail, Solar Crest, Black King Bar, Mjollnir
Extension Items: Solar Crest, Silver Edge, Abyssal Blade, Daedalus, Butterfly
Luxury Items: Boots of Travel, Moon Shard, Aghanim's Scepter

Anti-Mage
Added Monkey King Bar to Situational Items
Added Daedalus to Extension Items

Axe (Jungle)
Axe (Lane)
Added Enchanted Mango to Situational Items
Added Force Staff to Situational Items
Moved Crimson Guard to Situational Items
Removed Eul's Scepter of Divinity

Batrider
Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items
Added Necromonicon to Situational Items
Added Shiva's Guard to Extension Items
Removed Linken's Sphere
Removed Boots of Travel

Beastmaster (Lane)
Beastmaster (Middle)
Guide still broken, cannot skill ultimate

Bloodseeker (Lane)
Bloodseeker (Middle)
Bloodseeker (Jungle)
Added Moon Shard to Extension Items
Moved Mjollnir to Situational Items

Brewmaster (Lane)
Brewmaster (Middle)
Added Moon Shard to Situational Items

Bristleback
Added Lotus Orb to Situational Items
Added Solar Crest to Core Items
Added Moon Shard to Situational Items
Moved Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items
Renamed "Replace Crimson Guard" to "Defensive Utilities"
Removed Mekansm
Removed Sange & Yasha
Removed Black King Bar

Broodmother
Added Desolator to Extension Items
Removed Butterfly
Removed Yasha

Centaur Warrunner
Added Hood of Defiance to Core Items
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Added Enchanted Mango to Situational Items
Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items
Moved Pipe of Insight to Extension Items
Moved Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items
Removed Early Game Tab

Chaos Knight
Added Quelling Blade to Situational Items
Removed Stout Shield

Chen
Added Clarity to Starting Items
Added Guardian Greaves to Extension Items
Added Flying Courier to Utility Items
Removed Ring of Protection

Clockwerk
Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Removed Utility Items Tab and all affiliated items of it.
Removed Core - Mekansm Tab and all affiliated items of it.


Crystal Maiden
New Skill Build: Q W E E Q R Q Q W W R W E E R (1. Crystal Nova 2. Frostbite 3. Arcane Aura)
Removed Iron Branch to afford both courier and wards

Dark Seer
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Removed Arcane Boots

Dazzle
Added Solar Crest to Extension Items
Added Guardian Greaves to Extension Items
Removed Iron Branch to afford both courier and wards
Removed Eul's Scepter of Divinity

Death Prophet
Added Glimmer Cape to Core Items
Added Octarine Core to Extension Items
Removed Refresher's Orb

Dragon Knight (Lane)
Dragon Knight (Middle)
Added Silver Edge to Extension Items
Added Moon Shard to Extension Items
Moved Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Assault Cuirass to Situational Items
Removed Maelstrom
Removed Heaven's Halberd

Drow Ranger
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Removed Mask of Madness

Earthshaker
Removed Iron Branch to afford both courier and wards
Removed Clarity to afford both courier and wards

Earth Spirit (Lane)
Removed Stout Shield

Elder Titan (Lane)
Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Added Solar Crest to Extension Items
Removed Iron Branch x2 to afford both courier and wards

Elder Titan (Middle)
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Added Moon Shard to Situational Items

Ember Spirit (Lane)
Ember Spirit (Middle)
Added Boots of Travel to Luxury Items

Enigma
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items

Faceless Void
Added Moon Shard to Situational Items
Added Moon Shard to Extension Items
Moved Mjollnir to Situational Items
Moved Boots of Travel to Luxury Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Luxury Items
Moved Refresher's Orb to Luxury Items

Gyrocopter (Lane)
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Removed Shadow Blade

Gyrocopter (Middle)
Added Silver Edge to Extension Items
Removed Ring of Aquila

Invoker
Added Octarine Core
Moved Hand of Midas to Core Items
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items
Removed Magic Wand

IO
Added Enchanted Mango to Situational Items
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Removed Iron Branch x2 to afford both courier and wards
Removed Heart of Tarrasque

Jakiro
Removed Iron Branch to afford both courier and wards

Juggernaut
New Skill Build: Q W E Stats Stats R Stats E E E R W R W W R Statsx6 (1. Blade Dance 2. Healing Ward 3. Blade Fury)
Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational Items
Removed Mjollnir

Keeper of the Light
Removed Ring of Protection to afford both courier and wards

Kunkka (Lane)
Kunkka (Middle)
Added Enchanted Mango to Situational Items
Added Silver Edge to Extension Items
Removed Blink Dagger

Legion Commander (Lane)
Legion Commander (Middle)
Added Enchanted Mango to Situational Items
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items
Added Silver Edge to Initiation
Added Moon Shard to Extension Items
Moved Daedalus to Extension Items
Removed Maelstrom
Removed Mjollnir
Removed Desolator
Removed Heaven's Halberd

Leshrac (Lane)
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items
Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items
Removed Iron Branch x2 to afford both courier and wards
Removed Ghost Scepter

Leshrac (Middle)
Added Octarine Core to Extension Items
Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity Situational items
Moved Power Treads to Extension Items
Removed Blade Mail
Removed Linken's Sphere

Lich
Removed Healing Salve to afford both courier and wards

Lifestealer (Lane)
Removed Hand of Midas
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items
Moved Monkey King Bar

Lifestealer (Jungle)
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items

Lina (Lane)
Lina (Middle)
Added Octarine Core to Extension Items

Lion
Removed Iron Branch x2 to afford both courier and wards

Lone Druid (Lane)
Lone Druid (Jungle)
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Core - Druid
Added Glimmer Cape to Extension Druid Items
Added Moon Shard to Situational Items (Bear)
Moved Maelstrom to Situational Items (Bear)
Moved Radiance to Core - Bear
Removed Orb of Venom
Removed Ghost Scepter
Removed Pipe of Insight

Lycan (Lane)
Lycan (Jungle)
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items

Medusa
Added Lotus Orb
Removed Divine Rapier

Mirana
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items
Removed Medallion of Courage

Morphling
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items

Nature's Prophet
Added Silver Edge to Core - Ganker
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Added Moon Shard Situational Items
Removed Shadow Blade

Necrophos
Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items
Added Octarine to Extension Items
Removed Heart of Tarrasque

Night Stalker
Added Moon Shard to Extension Items
Removed Drums of Endurance

Nyx Assassin (Lane)
Removed Eul's Scepter of Divinity
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items
Removed Shiva's Guard

Nyx Assassin (Middle)
Removed "If Succeeding, max to 5" reworked Dagon description in Core Items
Created New Tab: "Situational Items"
Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items
Added Necromonicon to Situational Items
Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items
Removed Shiva's Guard

Ogre Magi
Removed Iron Branch to afford both courier and wards

Omniknight
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Removed Crimson Guard
Removed Eul's Scepter of Divinity

Oracle (Lane)
Added Glimmer Cape to Extension Items
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items
Remove Iron Branch x2 to afford both courier and wards
Removed Orchid of Malevolence
Removed Dagon

Oracle (Middle)
Added Solar Crest to Extension Items

Phoenix (Lane)
Phoenix (Middle)
Added Octarine Core to Extension Items

Pudge
Removed Pipe of Insight
Added Glimmer Cape to Extension Items

Pugna
Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items
Removed Shiva's Guard

Razor
Added Enchanted Mango to Situational Items
Removed Bottle

Riki
New Skill Build: W Q E E E R E W W W R Q Q Q (1. Backstab 2. Permanent Invisibility 3. Smoke Screen)

Rubick
Removed Iron Branch to afford both courier and wards

Sand King
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Burrowstrike 2. Sand Storm 3. Caustic Finale)
Removed Healing Salve

Shadow Demon
Removed Iron Branch to afford both courier and wards

Shadow Fiend

Shadow Shaman (Lane)
Added Clarity to Starting Items to afford both courier and wards
Removed Bottle to afford both courier and wards

Silencer (Lane)
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Moved Refresher's Orb to Extension Items
Removed Shiva's Guard

Silencer (Middle)
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Removed Shiva's Guard

Skywrath Mage (Lane)
Remove Clarity
Remove Iron Branch

Slardar
Added Moon Shard to Situational Items
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items
Removed Urn of Shadows
Removed Hand of Midas

Slark (Lane)
Slark (Middle)
Added Silver Edge to Core Items

Spectre
Moved Radiance to Extension Items

Spirit Breaker
Glimmer Cape added to Situational Items
Removed Shadow Blade

Sven
Added Moon Shard to Extension Items

Techies
Added Octarine Core to Extension Items
Removed Bloodstone

Tidehunter
Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items

Timbersaw
Added Enchanted Mango to Situational Items
Added Octarine Core to Extension Items
Removed Heart of Tarrasque

Tinker
Added Upgraded Boots of Travel to Luxury Items

Troll Warlord (Lane)
Troll Warlord (Middle)
Moved Quelling Blade to Core Items

Tusk (Lane)
New Skill Build: W QQ W Q R Q W W E R E E E R (1. Ice Shards 2. Snowball 3. Frozen Sigil)
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Added Solar Crest to Core Items
Moved Desolator to Extension Items
Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items
Removed Assault Cuirass
Removed Medallion of Courage
Removed Heart of Tarrasque

Undying
Added Lotus Orb to Situational Items

Ursa (Jungle)
Added Enchanted Mango to Starting Items
Moved Stout Shield to Early Game
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items
Removed Heart of Tarrasque

Ursa (Lane)
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items
Removed Heart of Tarrasque

Vengeful Spirit
Added Enchanted Mango to Situational Items
Added Solar Crest to Extension Items
Removed Shiva's Guard
Removed Bottle

Venomancer
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Removed Iron Branch x2 to afford both courier and wards
Removed Medallion of Courage
Removed Pipe of Insight

Viper
Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items
Removed Black King Bar

Visage
Added Enchanted Mango to Situational Items
Added Solar Crest to Extension Items
Removed Mekansm
Removed Bottle

Warlock (Lane)
Removed Iron Branch x2 to afford both courier and wards

Weaver (Lane)
Weaver (Middle)
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items
Added Solar Crest to Situational Items

New Guide
Windranger (Middle)
New Skill Build: W E W Q W R W Q Q Q R E E E (1. Powershot 2. Shackleshot 3. Windrun)
Starting Items: Null Talisman, Tango
Early Game: Bottle, Boots of Speed
Core Items: Phase Boots, Aghanim's Scepter, Daedalus
Situational Items: Force Staff, Blink Dagger, Rod of Atos, Monkey King Bar
Extension Items: Skull Basher, Black King Bar, Scythe of Vyse, Eye of Skadi

Witch Doctor
Added Glimmer Cape to Core Items
Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items
Removed Ghost Scepter

Wraith King
Added Moon Shard to Situational Items
Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Removed Heaven's Halberd
Removed Assault Cuirass

Zeus
Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items
Added Octarian Core to Extension Items

Patch 6.83 Inquiries
Lotus Orb instead of Black King Bar in Situational Items?
Moon Shard to Situational Items?
revert back to old build (max spin)?
Remove Mask of Madness, include battlefury?
Prioritization of Heaven's Halberd, Pipe of Insight and Aghanim's Scepter is unsure.
Glimmer Cape, Core Items?
Enchanted Mango for Jungling?
Shift to carry build: Silver Edge, Moon Shard?
Glimmer Cape?
How to build up his attack speed?
New Skill Build?
Silver Edge worthwhile? Shadow Blade still has a mana cost that chips off LC.
Mjollnir still good on Bear or just rush Moon Shard first (thus Moon Shard is Extension)?
Glimmer Cape or is that just a cutesy/novel idea?
Chang Mirana's Skill Build to be less noob-friendly, but more expected way to be played?
Aghanim's Scepter situationally worthwhile for Naga Siren?
Aghanim's Scepter still sounds iffy, thoughts?
Glimmer Cape for Core - Pusher?
Aghanim's Scepter is decent, but I find it isn't prioritized.
Eul's Scepter Situational?
Solar Crest Core?
Can't find anything to really change for him, neither as midlane or roamer, suggestions?
Nothing to really change? He's just been nerfed + Mask of Madness nerf.
Glimmer Cape as Situational Items?
Lotus Orb situational? Any validity in that?
Item build needs massive reworking since his ult and strength no longer accounted for.
Thinking Solar Crest could have a higher priority of core or extension...
Glimmer Cape core instead of Mekansm? Magic Resist not really needed however.
Max Geminate Attack now?
Change to Slahser's Build?

Total changes made (includes text/description. updates): approx. 400 changes
109 Guides changes applied
35 Guides remain unchanged
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
April 28 2015 20:42 GMT
#3384
okay its simple
bfury = lets u hit multiple creeps at a time
maelstrom = lets u hit multiple creeps at a time
moon edge = nothing like that whatsoever. only attackspeed which is almost always less efficient than damage until you have a fair bit of damage already since you start with (100 + base agi) attackspeed.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
April 28 2015 20:43 GMT
#3385
I literally have no idea where the comparison of Moon Shard to Battlefury came from.
Moderator
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-28 20:49:48
April 28 2015 20:49 GMT
#3386
alch doesn't make a good candidate for moon shard at all; BAT difference doesn't make attack speed more efficient than damage, the optimal damage to attack speed ratio is completely independent of BAT

i guess he's one of the first heroes you think of for the efficient 7th slot feature though
posting on liquid sites in current year
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-28 20:50:11
April 28 2015 20:50 GMT
#3387
On April 29 2015 05:49 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
alch doesn't make a good candidate for moon shard at all; BAT difference doesn't make attack speed more efficient than damage, the optimal damage to attack speed ratio is completely independent of BAT

However, alch does 6-slot the easiest which makes a permanent 60 ias without costing a slot suddenly attractive
E: yeah u edited on me
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
April 28 2015 20:50 GMT
#3388
Yeah I'm pretty sure the reason you buy Moon Shard on Alch is because you hit 6 items so fast, but even then you have to weigh it against buying Aghas for people, lol.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 28 2015 20:51 GMT
#3389
I'm just tired; so I am not thinking straight - I saw BF and MS at the same cost and made the connection (killing creeps at an incredible rate -> works to the late-game [dissolves or use for the fast attack speed].

I will be clocking out for tonight. Started at 8 - ending at 10:30 --- Will continue tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 29 2015 07:17 GMT
#3390
Just woke up; going to work and will slip in probably another 40-50 changes while working.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 29 2015 16:29 GMT
#3391
Still chugging along, please check 6.84 inquiries (its at the end of the patch notes) for things I'm unsure about. Overall; I love how these items create another of late-game potential, but also fill gaps for a lot of heroes I felt were trap in one build or another. I think I am excited most for Silver Edge and Solar Crest.

I should be done in 2 hours if I go at this pace.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Doomblaze
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1292 Posts
April 29 2015 17:52 GMT
#3392
At first glance I would say no for all of your inquiries.

In Mushi we trust
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 18:13:34
April 29 2015 18:11 GMT
#3393
Alchemist - Lotus Orb instead of Black King Bar in Situational Items?

Why? The items don't really serve an overlapping function, so why would this cross your mind as a direct replacement?
Moon Shard to Situational Items?

You could but it's pretty much just a "I have no slots left and am buying Moon Shards to eat them" scenario, and anyone who doesn't know to do that when they have 10k gold banked on 6 items is losing games because they don't know to do that.

Death Prophet Glimmer Cape, Core Items?

What function does Glimmer Cape serve that DP wants as core?

Doom Enchanted Mango for Jungling?

No. Mango's cost-efficiency is shit if you're using the mana just to farm (150 gold for 150 mana is terrible, lol). It's for heroes that use the regen and then can use the mana in a pinch, but Doom jungle is just going to be farming.

Doom Shift to carry build: Silver Edge, Moon Shard?

I don't know what would prompt this change, the items aren't especially good for him.

Dragon Knight Glimmer Cape?

It's situationally good because it's disassemble-able so if it's a game for Lothar's, the casual cloak is not terrible.

Legion Commander Silver Edge worthwhile? Shadow Blade still has a mana cost that chips off LC.

Lothar's LC was already bad and Silver Edge doesn't make it better.

Lone Druid Mjollnir still good on Bear or just rush Moon Shard first (thus Moon Shard is Extension)?

LD is like the opposite of a Moon Shard hero.

Moon Shard is not really an effective item outside of situational night vision extension and the eat-them-at-6-items case. Outside of that it's just 2 Hyperstones for the cost of 2 Hyperstones--it doesn't provide any distinct function that lets you do anything special. LD has a second unit that scouts for him and has 12 item slots which means he's the least likely carry to need either of those.
Moderator
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 18:57:48
April 29 2015 18:42 GMT
#3394
Would Guardian Greaves be a good extension or situational item for Dark Seer? He already is sort of agnostic to boot choice and usually gets a mek so it's not a stretch to go up to the greaves. It still seems like BoTs is a better extension, but the 15 armor for heroes under 20% seems pretty interesting.

At the very least in games with dispellable silences it seems really useful.

It also seems like Oct core would possibly be more useful for Necro than Lotus? You're potentially talking about big HP boosts on Necro every 3.75s (not to mention the faster healing of allies) and a massive recovery from ult targets.
Logo
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 21:37:52
April 29 2015 21:03 GMT
#3395
Guides have been drafted new changes. When the new patch hits; I will replace the placeholder items and put in the proper ones.

Inquiries are updated as well if everyone wants to take a look. Will read replies shortly, creating Reddit thread then going home as I am still at the office.

[image loading]


Total changes made (includes text/description. updates): approx. 400 changes
109 Guides changes applied
35 Guides remain unchanged


Actual Schedule (CEST)
Day 1
- 8 to 12:00: Patch Analysis, information collecting (videos, opinions, etc.) + draft notes
- 12:00 to 12:30: Lunch
- 12:30 to 3:00: Title Changes + Date Updates for initial unchanged heroes (un/mentioned from the patch notes)
- 3:00 to 5:30: Narrow and apply initial changes (descriptions, obvious skill builds) + finish my actual job
- 5:30 to 6:30: Dinner/Rest
- 6:30 to 10:30: Apply changes
- 10:30 onward: Rest and actual dinner

Day 2
- 10 to 11:00: Further application of items, updating descriptions.

Total Elapsed Time (including lunch/dinner): 27.5 hours
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
April 29 2015 21:23 GMT
#3396
all of ur glimmer cape suggestions and 80% of ur other ones are bad
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 21:40:03
April 29 2015 21:38 GMT
#3397
On April 30 2015 06:23 Sn0_Man wrote:
all of ur glimmer cape suggestions and 80% of ur other ones are bad


I am walking home, but specifics would be appreciated.

For most new item changes; I was cautious to leave it situational and will slowly remove them; similar as I did for Bottle when it was changed in recent patches.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 29 2015 21:39 GMT
#3398
On April 30 2015 03:42 Logo wrote:
Would Guardian Greaves be a good extension or situational item for Dark Seer? He already is sort of agnostic to boot choice and usually gets a mek so it's not a stretch to go up to the greaves. It still seems like BoTs is a better extension, but the 15 armor for heroes under 20% seems pretty interesting.

At the very least in games with dispellable silences it seems really useful.

It also seems like Oct core would possibly be more useful for Necro than Lotus? You're potentially talking about big HP boosts on Necro every 3.75s (not to mention the faster healing of allies) and a massive recovery from ult targets.


Good idea, it would stop the Bloodstone chanting I get a lot about the guide. Will definitely look into it when I get home.





For Dark Seer, I figured so as well, but was unsure in terms of priority.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
tehh4ck3r
Profile Joined August 2013
Magrathea7086 Posts
April 29 2015 21:44 GMT
#3399
tinker should get upgraded travel boots at some point
AdministratorIn those days, spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
April 29 2015 21:45 GMT
#3400
Alchemist Lotus Orb instead of Black King Bar in Situational Items? No
Alchemist Moon Shard to Situational Items? No
Juggernaut revert back to old build (max spin)? no comment
Juggernaut Remove Mask of Madness, include battlefury? no comment
Centaur Warrunner Prioritization of Heaven's Halberd, Pipe of Insight and Aghanim's Scepter is unsure. Most games blink aghs bkb or blink bkb aghs
Death Prophet Glimmer Cape, Core Items? NO
Doom Enchanted Mango for Jungling? no
Doom Shift to carry build: Silver Edge, Moon Shard? no
Dragon Knight Glimmer Cape? no
Faceless Void How to build up his attack speed? same as always
Invoker New Skill Build? no
Legion Commander Silver Edge worthwhile? Shadow Blade still has a mana cost that chips off LC. no
Lone Druid Mjollnir still good on Bear or just rush Moon Shard first (thus Moon Shard is Extension)? never moon shard
Meepo Glimmer Cape or is that just a cutesy/novel idea? no
Mirana Chang Mirana's Skill Build to be less noob-friendly, but more expected way to be played? dunno what skill build is
Naga Siren Aghanim's Scepter situationally worthwhile for Naga Siren? technically support naga makes 42% heal in full ult but no its bad
Nature's Prophet Aghanim's Scepter still sounds iffy, thoughts? bad
Nature's Prophet Glimmer Cape for Core - Pusher? NO
Night Stalker Aghanim's Scepter is decent, but I find it isn't prioritized. it should be
Oracle Eul's Scepter Situational? no
Oracle Solar Crest Core? NO
Skywrath Mage Can't find anything to really change for him, neither as midlane or roamer, suggestions? isnt he fine
Sniper Nothing to really change? He's just been nerfed + Mask of Madness nerf. mom is probably bad now since u relied on that MS really badly
Templar Assassin Glimmer Cape as Situational Items? NO
Undying Lotus Orb situational? Any validity in that? actually the stats are good on undying but the item is permanently situational
Ursa Item build needs massive reworking since his ult and strength no longer accounted for. not really u still build blink bkb hex/basher with lifesteal in there often. its not like skadi is bad just because the hp doesnt give u damage its still good
Ursa Thinking Solar Crest could have a higher priority of core or extension... no
Viper Glimmer Cape core instead of Mekansm? Magic Resist not really needed however. no
Weaver Max Geminate Attack now? no
Windranger Change to Slahser's Build? yes
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
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