EPTOn March 04 2015 01:37 Buckyman wrote:
The popular pro build seems to be Midas -> Arcane -> Atos.
The popular pro build seems to be Midas -> Arcane -> Atos.
Roger
On March 04 2015 01:53 Sn0_Man wrote:
by that you mean overwhelmingly either midas->aghs or straight aghs off of either brown boots or tranquils
http://www.datdota.com/item_builds.php?p=item_builds&item=&hero=68&patch=11
there's literally no pro mid aa matches so you can't really speak to that. ps what an awful idea for a guide mid-AA jeeez
by that you mean overwhelmingly either midas->aghs or straight aghs off of either brown boots or tranquils
http://www.datdota.com/item_builds.php?p=item_builds&item=&hero=68&patch=11
there's literally no pro mid aa matches so you can't really speak to that. ps what an awful idea for a guide mid-AA jeeez
Yes, I will start incorporating Midas for some guides now like AA and Warlock
On March 04 2015 07:02 TheYango wrote:
AA mid is still fine (a ton of suppressive lane heroes that get invalidated against bottle-crowing for lack of AoE are still playable in pubs because people don't necessarily maximize bottle-crow effectiveness or pool their mids super hard), but as I said the last time we discussed this, you may as well just remove the guide because there's a ton of shit that can be played mid that you don't have guides for, that are actually in the same boat as AA (i.e. actually pretty good mid in pubs, but your team will bitch at you enough about it that it's not really worth it).
Like, AA mid is fine the same way Lion, Bane, and Disruptor are all great mid heroes for pubs, but you don't have guides for those (well, OK Bane's probably a better mid than all of the others cuz he basically wins every conceivable lane except for a few that nobody plays anyway).
EDIT: Though by the same token, you still have Rhasta and Skywrath mid guides, even though those have been pretty much only played support in compeittive for ages. You sort of need to make a stance on these "literally never mid in competitive but pretty decent mid in pubs" heroes and make it sensible. You can have guides for all of them, have guides for none of them, or have some reasonable logic for which ones do and don't have guides that's not just "someone told you to make one" (and yes I know I was the one who told you to make the guide for AA mid).
AA mid is still fine (a ton of suppressive lane heroes that get invalidated against bottle-crowing for lack of AoE are still playable in pubs because people don't necessarily maximize bottle-crow effectiveness or pool their mids super hard), but as I said the last time we discussed this, you may as well just remove the guide because there's a ton of shit that can be played mid that you don't have guides for, that are actually in the same boat as AA (i.e. actually pretty good mid in pubs, but your team will bitch at you enough about it that it's not really worth it).
Like, AA mid is fine the same way Lion, Bane, and Disruptor are all great mid heroes for pubs, but you don't have guides for those (well, OK Bane's probably a better mid than all of the others cuz he basically wins every conceivable lane except for a few that nobody plays anyway).
EDIT: Though by the same token, you still have Rhasta and Skywrath mid guides, even though those have been pretty much only played support in compeittive for ages. You sort of need to make a stance on these "literally never mid in competitive but pretty decent mid in pubs" heroes and make it sensible. You can have guides for all of them, have guides for none of them, or have some reasonable logic for which ones do and don't have guides that's not just "someone told you to make one" (and yes I know I was the one who told you to make the guide for AA mid).
The system is flexible. Before, these guys were played mid sometimes in pub and they were asked.
Now they're not, but that doesn't make them an unplayable form. The only reason there isn't a mid guide for Bane or Medusa or Disruptor is because there isn't any demand for it.
After two years, some guides are going to lose their popularity and we will have to adjust or simply just keep them around. I can't be removing them because they're out of touch with what's being played NOW, when, two years from now, they'll be back and then the guide, now remade, has to work its way back up to popularity (if it doesn't have 5 stars, the guides are not even displayed in-game, that's how stuck-in-stone the stupid system is).
For Bane, Disruptor or even Necrophos mid, no one has asked for it or at least made a strong case that there's a need for it. So I haven't done it and won't push for it because 146 is plenty of work for me/us.
We use competitive matches as a leader similar to how pubs mimic what they see in pro games, we use standard pub play to help determine current popularity and then our own judgement to assess what would be the most optimal and all-around best build for these heroes.
As you already know, this is 10000000000% an interpretative project, so we have to use our own judgement to decide how to change things or keep them. I won't remove a guide because no one plays him any more because there may be a time someone needs it, or worse: there may be a time that playing X hero mid becomes popular and then I have to redo the guide and push for ratings (impossible - only 30% of subscribers rate builds)
