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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Haswell i5's are actually pretty cool if you set stuff right. Main problem is the gap between real loads (like an encoder maxing the cpu) and synthetic is MASSIVE now
you can literally double power draw by running the CPU to 100% load using linpack instead of x264 if software is to believed, and i think it's probably pretty close, considering the really insane temperatures. Linpack at stock is hotter than my max overclock.
With some tuning, @1.32vcore with ht off, my average temp on hottest core is below 70 encoding ^for some perspective, but i hit the weird 101/9c bluescreen wall it seems after that. I wouldn't invest in unlocked CPU and z87 maybe with something weak and nonquiet like a 212, but midrange cooling probably wouldn't hurt too much. Just gotta keep some stuff in mind, mainly set VRIN right (if you run 1.3vcore with 1.7vrin, you will have harder time getting stable and draw a ton more power/heat than with 1.9) and above all else, stability test with the right software; if your goal is to be running linpack, the chips are not designed for it and you should probably be undervolting, not overvolting
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I notice no one has ever talked about delidding Haswell CPUs here. If I understand correctly, if done right, you can get temperatures gains up to 15°C, which is quite a lot.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Bit more than 20c i'd expect
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Hey Guys,
What are your opinions about these components for my second build?
CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.99)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($69.99)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($124.98)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($87.32)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($122.99)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB Video Card ($374.99)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Titanium Grey) ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 750W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($89.99)
Monitor: BenQ XL2420T 120Hz 24.0" Monitor ($329.99)
Total: $1500.23
A few notes: I will be transferring a Western Digital hard drive and an optical drive from my current set-up. I'm planning on overclocking the cpu to around 4.5 GHz. And I'm going to wait a few more months before I buy the parts to see if the prices do drop, especially on the video card.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
^Last gen CPU+mobo (and bad mobo) and you're maybe paying too much for RAM (can get some better RAM for less money maybe, or 2x4gb standard RAM for less) and also too much for GPU (not 100% sure on this, but it looks high)
PSU, not sure on the individual unit but you don't need 750w to run that, you'd want 430-550
In general for thread: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-heat-sink-heat-spreader,3600.html
^this is surprisingly not too bad article. I must say though the CPU rotated 90 degrees is very confusing, when it's in socket you apply line method top to bottom
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Not sure why last-gen CPU / motherboard. (and Extreme4 at that price is maybe okay but probably not the best pick, also seems maybe odd next to the top-tier or so CPU cooler)
Memory looks a bit overpriced.
Video card looks waaay overpriced. Like $80 overpriced.
Power supply is overkill unless you're looking at Crossfire but I guess $90 for HX750 or AX750 or whichever that is (they're not calling RM750 Professional, are they?) is a good deal but not spectacular if that's after a hefty rebate.
Unless you like additional useless picture modes specific to BenQ, Asus VG248QE is mostly all the same and cheaper but possibly slightly better if you have preferences with respect to pixel overdrive settings.
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On October 11 2013 13:50 Cyro wrote:^Last gen CPU+mobo (and bad mobo) and you're maybe paying too much for RAM (can get some better RAM for less money maybe, or 2x4gb standard RAM for less) and also too much for GPU (not 100% sure on this, but it looks high) PSU, not sure on the individual unit but you don't need 750w to run that, you'd want 430-550 In general for thread: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-heat-sink-heat-spreader,3600.html^this is surprisingly not too bad article. I must say though the CPU rotated 90 degrees is very confusing, when it's in socket you apply line method top to bottom
Nice read, thanks for that.
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When picking out your mobo for your build, how do you decide one what kind to get? the only thing i know is that some mobos cant be used if u want to overclock your cpu.
also, if you buy any kind of high end CPU with no intending to overclock it, is the fan that comes with the cpu in the box okay? or should you still get a heatsink if you buy a high end CPU? (for use like 3D gaming for CPU intensive games, or, to put it to the extreme, professional use like video edit and such)
also, I'm sorry but I still dont understand what an SSD is. (from my question yesterday)
is it the same as a regular harddrive, its just that its faster and more optimal? (i know ssd is for storage also like a HDD).
How do you put ur SSD to use? do you just store stuff into SSD as if your storing it onto a regular hard drive?
from what im getting, is that you put things that you want to have faster loadtime and such like games, and your operating system onto the SSD, while you put other stuff that isnt need for good perfermance like pictures, movies, school stuff, onto HDD. am i correct?
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Yes, the stock heatsink is fine.
Yes, the SSD and HDD will look the same to you in Windows.
Yes, that's how you would use an SSD and HDD setup.
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Ok here's a question. What are the best sources for good reviews and things like that? Many of you in this thread seem quite knowledgeable though I highly doubt that all of you own 10 different rigs with i7-4770k and i7-3930k in half of them. :p
I understand that cross referencing sources is always a good thing to do but still, which are the best sources generally speaking?
Also, why would anyone buy a Z87 ATX chipset if you can also overclock on a smaller and less expensive Z87 mATX chipset? I guess you can't crossfire on a mATX motherboard and you have less overall USB/SATA ports but does anyone actually use 100% of a chipset's capabilities?
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
guru3d is pretty good
There's a lot of reviews that do things differently than i would or are just flat out pretty bad info, there have been some really terrible articles on tomshardware and anandtech
^toms is more well known i think, but anand's cooler reviews and then the haswell stuff made me really dislike them. They set some really bad OC settings and then blamed the motherboard they were using because they were not able to achieve a high overclock, then gave an award to some other board that they tested without messing up settings as much. That one just pissed me off a lot, especially because it was the board i own and had a lot of experience with at the time, general inexperience and bad info from toms+anand gave a lot of bad attention to Haswell that was not really deserved
If you want the best info, just hit higher level community sites like www.overclock.net a bunch of times, read threads, avoid hivemind opinions
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The batch of websites in the OP are generally what most people consider to be the best.
mATX boards have a weaker VRM than standard ATX boards. mATX boards typically don't come with less SATA or USB, most boards have the standard six USB (which btw is retarded and not enough) and six SATA.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
I only use one USB, two with webcam, a lot of people don't use 6 and i don't have any idea what on earth i could do with 10 3.0's
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I think most individuals use two to four and a very small minority (which includes myself) would like more than six.
- mouse, keyboard, headset, printer, UPS, webcam, external storage, passthrough
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On October 11 2013 15:50 skyR wrote:
mATX boards have a weaker VRM than standard ATX boards.
Bullshit. Entry boards sure, but not any board any of us would buy.
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Please do explain because the last time I checked, every mATX board except Sniper and ROG had half of what their ATX equivalent had.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On October 11 2013 16:12 skyR wrote:
I think most individuals use two to four and a very small minority (which includes myself) would like more than six.
- mouse, keyboard, headset, printer, UPS, webcam, external storage, passthrough
I think most mech boards can use ps2 (i got one that could anyway, because it's better and i was sick of hitting key rollover limits in a few games) and i was under the impression that USB audio was terrible, also never heard of UPS using a usb, hm interesting though
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Best I could find.
http://sinhardware.com/images/vrmlist.png
Too bad there's only a handful of mATX boards on it.
Funny though that almost all the Gigabyte Z87 boards use the exact same VRM (#of real phases) reguardless of board...
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On October 11 2013 13:50 Cyro wrote:^Last gen CPU+mobo (and bad mobo) and you're maybe paying too much for RAM (can get some better RAM for less money maybe, or 2x4gb standard RAM for less) and also too much for GPU (not 100% sure on this, but it looks high) PSU, not sure on the individual unit but you don't need 750w to run that, you'd want 430-550 In general for thread: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-heat-sink-heat-spreader,3600.html^this is surprisingly not too bad article. I must say though the CPU rotated 90 degrees is very confusing, when it's in socket you apply line method top to bottom
From what I've read online on Tom's and other websites, I've read that the 3570K overclocks better than the 4670K, not to mention it doesn't produce as much heat. And the ASRock mobo has one of the highest ratings on pcpartpicker, but I'm definitely willing to change it to something else if you can give me a better suggestion. My second choice for the mobo was the Asus P8Z77-V PRO Newegg Link.
Also, I needed a LP memory kit because I read the NH-D14 may prevent ram from fitting in the DIMM 1 slot on the ASRock mobo.
Thanks for the response!
Also, thanks to Myrmidon for his response as well. Yes, I am planning on crossfire or sli.
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This is not true about the heat. Both 3570k and 4670k have the same physical problem with getting heat out of them. The crazy "delidding" fix for that problem works similar on both of them.
The 4670k is in fact more economical about the power it uses. The added heat you see is not wasted. It gets translated into increased performance. This seems to make stress tests a bad idea. Real world programs will not run much hotter on the other hand, making 4670k a better choice.
The 3570k is easier to overclock as it is mostly just finding the right core voltage for stability. This could skew people's perception about it overclocking better. If you think overclocking is fun, the 4670k will be more fun as there are more knobs to play with. It seems to go just as far if you tweak all available settings, not just core voltage.
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EPT
